Medical Cannabis (Access) Bill

Baroness Laing of Elderslie Excerpts

Friday 10th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sally-Ann Hart]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Before the hon. Lady answers the intervention, I must ask her not to use the word “you.” When one says “you,” one means the Chair. I have not interrupted the flow of her speech, but she has said “you” a few times, and I would be grateful if she would say “the hon. Lady” rather than “you” because “you” means the Chair.

[Sally-Ann Hart]

Thank you for your advice, Madam Deputy Speaker. I take it on board, and I apologise for using that term in the House. I know I should not be saying it. When you are—[Laughter.] When one is going with the flow, it just comes out.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

For the sake of clarity, it is okay if the hon. Lady says “when you are” when she means “when one is” because it is vernacular. I would not be so pernickety as to pick her up on that, and it is absolutely fine.

It is not often that I have the chance in a quiet House to clarify the rules that a lot of people do not understand, and that the hon. Lady clearly understands very well indeed. There are good reasons for the rules. It is not some old-fashioned tradition that we are sticking to because it is a tradition; it is because it changes the tenor of the debate. She is proceeding perfectly properly.

[Sally-Ann Hart]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I understand that we have to use the right terminology because it depersonalises the debate, which is most important.

I am not sure whether I answered the intervention by the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), but I had better move on.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jane Hunt]

My hon. Friend has dealt with some of what I was going to say. I would say that today has been an amazing achievement for hon. Members, particularly Opposition Members. You have done well—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. Please, it is “hon. Members” not “you”. I have not achieved anything at all today.

[Jane Hunt]

I apologise unreservedly. Hon. Members have achieved a great deal today and should not be disheartened. The people watching and listening should also not be disheartened because they have done a great thing today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Mullan]

I encourage the hon. Lady to listen carefully to what I am saying. I said at the start of the debate that, absolutely, there are very good reasons for individual patients to receive this treatment. I have acknowledged that there are licensed treatments based on evidence, so I think she is kind of misrepresenting what I said. I said clearly that I am giving context to the—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

Order. I am sure that the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) was not misrepresenting what the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Dr Mullan) said. She is doing whatever he is suggesting that she is doing, but it will not be misrepresenting, because that would not be honourable.

[Dr Mullan]

Perhaps the hon. Lady is inadvertently giving an incorrect impression of what I said. I made it very clear that this is the context for how clinicians behave in our NHS.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Mullan]

As you know, I respect your experience—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing)]

No—hers.

[Dr Mullan]

I respect the experience that the hon. Member brings to her role. At no point have I said that the only way in which we can proceed is through RCTs. Earlier in the debate, when Opposition Members started talking in broad terms about observational studies and, to my mind, they were unfortunately disparaging RCTs, my comments were about being cautious. RCTs are incredibly important—they are fundamental to the vast majority of clinical medicine. I agree that other types of studies will be needed in some circumstances, but people need to make those arguments to the National Institute of Health Research. It is not for us as parliamentarians to override well-established processes designed to ensure that things are done in an appropriate, fair, thought-through and well-funded way.