Housing Benefit (Abolition of Social Sector Size Criteria)

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Wednesday 17th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Dr Whiteford]

I did not say that Labour Members did not vote against the bedroom tax; I was talking about what was alleged in the report in The Guardian on 25 October. If that is true, it is a shocking indictment—[Interruption.] That is what I said.

I am pleased that the Scottish Government have taken action that has fully mitigated the effect of the bedroom tax for those affected this year and in the next financial year. I understand that, as of next week, the section 63 orders will be in force to allow local authorities to make discretionary payments—as they have been doing for some months on the basis of assurances—to ensure that no one in Scotland will lose out. I am relieved that tenants will no longer be experiencing hardship or accruing rent arrears due to the bedroom tax, but we should make no mistake that while it remains on the statute book, legal liability will remain with the tenants. Moreover, the £35 million that the Scottish Government have allocated to mitigate the bedroom tax this year has had to be found from other devolved budgets at a time when public spending is under pressure. So this is far from being an elegant or sustainable solution, and it is interesting to note that the Welsh Assembly has refused to go down a similar route.

The issues underlying the problems with the bedroom tax are the chronic shortage of social housing and the serious mismatch between our existing housing stock and the needs of present-day tenants. In Scotland, research by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has found that the implementation costs of the bedroom tax exceed the projected savings by around £10 million—money that could have been reinvested in social housing.

I recognise that the Government want to cut the housing benefit bill, but squeezing disabled tenants is a vicious way to do that. When we look closely at the increases in housing benefit over the past 10 years, we see that almost a third of the UK increase is attributable to London alone. By contrast, in Scotland the total cost of housing benefit has increased by 22% in inflation-adjusted terms over 10 years, but the increase has been much lower in the social rented sector, at only 6% over 10 years. Housing benefit inflation is being driven by out-of-control rent increases in the private sector, a problem that is most extreme in the London area.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

rose—

[Dr Whiteford]

I will not give way again.

The problem is most extreme in the London area, so if the Government want to save money, they should address it instead of scapegoating disabled social tenants. Taking money out of the budgets of low-income households will not make more housing available, will not curb the rent increases and will not tackle overcrowding in the areas of very high demand.

As well as being a bad policy, the bedroom tax is, above all, a nasty and vindictive policy. It does not surprise me that the Tories have imposed it on us, but it is shameful that not one of the Scottish Liberal Democrats is here today to defend their Government’s policy, which they pushed through when it came before the House in the first place. This is supposed to be the season of good will, but there is a distinct lack of Christmas cheer among the people still dealing with the financial consequences of this fiasco of a policy. As the Scottish Liberals scramble to save their seats in the run-up to May, I hope that people in Scotland will remember who let the Tories do this to our most vulnerable citizens. They know that it is a failed policy—that is why they will not defend it—and it needs to be consigned to the scrap heap.

Bedroom Tax (Scotland)

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Thursday 8th May 2014 Westminster Hall

[Dr Whiteford]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising that point. It is something that parties in Scotland have looked at very closely, and I know that senior Labour MSPs such as Jackie Baillie and Iain Gray have very much been part of discussions with the Scottish Government about those issues. Even they have agreed with the Scottish Government about the way to distribute the extra money, in compliance with the law as it stands. They agree that DHPs are the only clear legal route to provide funding for bedroom tax arrears directly to the people affected on a regular and ongoing basis. We are having to jump through a lot of legal loopholes. It is clear there are some solutions—the Scottish Government, certainly, were looking at them very carefully—but it seems that the clearest way forward is through discretionary housing payments and the challenge for all of us is to make sure that they are made.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

rose—

[Dr Whiteford]

I will not give way just now, because I have quite a lot to say and I need to make some progress.

The Scottish Government have made an explicit commitment to mitigate fully the impact by making £35 million available in this year’s budget for councils to distribute through discretionary housing payments. I believe that agreement has been reached with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities to ensure that funding is targeted according to need, and much of the funding has already been allocated. My understanding is that councils in Scotland have been allocated extra funding up to the limit of the Westminster cap on how much an individual local authority is allowed to spend on discretionary housing payments. Across Scotland, however, that still leaves a £15 million shortfall, which can be allocated only once the cap is lifted.

I have raised the issue of the cap on several occasions both with Department for Work and Pensions Ministers and with Scotland Office Ministers. The Deputy First Minister wrote six letters, and I raised the issue personally with the Deputy Prime Minister. COSLA wrote, as did the Scottish Parliament’s Welfare Reform Committee. It has taken much longer than it should have. It is also worth making the point that the UK Government have not committed to lifting the cap, but will transfer powers to Scottish Ministers to allow them to do so. Inevitably, that two-stage process will take longer than if the UK Government had agreed simply to raise the cap.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

That is exactly why East Lothian housing association in my constituency took action to write off arrears. Is the hon. Lady saying that it has acted illegally?

[Dr Whiteford]

By no means. I commend the work that has happened in some local authority areas and with some housing associations, but that is perhaps a more feasible option for some than for others. The agreement that has been reached among the parties in Scotland, on a cross-party basis, is that the discretionary housing payment system offers the clearest legal route to do that in a way that can be regular and ongoing. It is a bit of a legal quagmire, as far as I understand it, and it is not as straightforward as it might first appear. It is also not always easy to disentangle what are bedroom tax arrears and what are arrears due to another financial hardship such as losing one’s job, other welfare reforms or other loss of income. It is not entirely straightforward. Nevertheless, it is a very serious issue and I absolutely share the hon. Lady’s concerns.

I am glad that we have a commitment to proceed under section 63 of the Scotland Act. I pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland, who has succeeded where the DWP has failed over the past five months. I hope that the Minister will use this opportunity today to outline a speedy timetable for that process to be enacted. It means that local authorities can plan ahead on the basis that the shortfall will be met in full and that they will have funding to ensure that every single tenant subject to the under-occupancy penalty can receive a discretionary housing payment. Twelve of our local authorities already have a full funding allocation to mitigate the bedroom tax in their areas. The rest have extra funding up to the level of the cap and can now be assured that the rest is coming, just as soon as the relevant orders can be laid in Parliament.

The challenge for all of us is to make sure that tenants apply for their discretionary housing payment. I will certainly be going back to every constituent who has been in touch with me about the bedroom tax, including those who applied unsuccessfully for DHPs in the past, and urging them to reapply. I will also ask my local authority what it will be doing proactively to ensure that everyone who is entitled to discretionary housing payments gets them, now that the policy has been fully funded and there is no excuse for anyone who is subject to the bedroom tax to be left without the support that they need.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Whiteford]

I am winding up my speech, so I will not give way. The bedroom tax and the other changes to our tax and benefits system that are fuelling poverty and hardship in communities across Scotland are the price that we pay for being governed by people we did not vote for. Scottish MPs overwhelmingly opposed the bedroom tax, but we have it anyway, and even now we cannot get rid of it; we can only seek to limit the damage that it is causing. The bedroom tax illustrates perfectly why Scotland needs decision-making powers on these issues. I am looking forward to the day when the people of Scotland have a Parliament with the normal powers of a normal state, a Parliament that is elected by us, responsive to us and accountable to us and that can consign the bedroom tax to history once and for all.

[Fiona O’ Donnell]

On a point of order, Mr Bone. Could you advise me on whether it is in order for the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford) to attack Labour Members for not being present for votes on the bedroom tax when in fact members of her own party have missed several votes on—

Transparency of Lobbying, Non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Bill

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I am glad we have the opportunity to debate the influence of third parties and non-elected actors on our political process, and I think the regulation of such activities needs to be reviewed. So far, however, the Bill is proving a flawed means of doing that, and we all agree that there needs to be much greater transparency of lobbyists. I echo concerns already raised about the missed opportunity to include a code of conduct in that process, and I cannot help but observe and echo observations by other hon. Members that not a single lobbying scandal from recent years would have been in any way affected had this Bill been enacted.

Part 1 of the Bill, wholly inadequate as it is, relates to matters that are largely devolved in Scotland, so in the short time available I will address part 2. The measures in part 2 are particularly deeply flawed, and in spite of all the assurances we have heard from the Leader of the House, they will place undue restrictions on the ability of campaigning organisations to raise legitimate concerns about public policy issues. Although it is not a declarable interest, I feel I ought to put on record my background working in public affairs and campaigning in the voluntary sector, as well as my past directorships of charities, both large and small. I am also a member of the Electoral Commission parliamentary advisory group.

My key point is that an active, politically engaged, challenging civil society is a hallmark of democracy and the lifeblood of live political culture, every bit as much as a free press or free and fair elections. I have grave concerns that a side effect of the Bill will be to restrict the discursive space where citizens can make a fuss about public policies that affect their lives. In Scotland, as the hon. Member for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell) outlined, there has been considerable concern about how the Bill will restrict perfectly legitimate activities. Martin Sime, the chief executive of the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations, has gone so far as to say it is an

“assault on…charities’ right to campaign”.

That is strong language from organisations that are not usually prepared to put their heads above the parapet so quickly.

As legislators and decision makers we are often challenged in the ways that citizens want us to meet their expectations. They share their experiences and views with us in ways that immeasurably enhance the democratic process, and any dilution of their ability to engage with us and hold us to account for our decisions is a wholly retrograde step. Sometimes that can be uncomfortable for us in the Chamber and in Parliaments and council chambers around these islands, but without the ability to raise concerns through collective efforts, our citizens will be deprived of important avenues of engagement in the political process and our democracy will be immeasurably poorer.

It is important to remember that campaigning civil society organisations that are also charities are already highly regulated by the Charity Commission, the Charity Commission for Northern Ireland, and the Office of the Scottish Charity Regulator. Charitable organisations are already prevented from campaigning in a politically partisan way, and during election periods they are already restricted in the kinds of activities they can undertake. In my experience, charities take those responsibilities extremely seriously and are careful about the public statements and activities they undertake ahead of elections. The proposals, however, go much further. Existing legislation on charities is working well, and we should not be looking to increase the regulatory burden on charities through the Bill. Part 2 of the Bill would do exactly that, and serious concerns have been raised about the unworkability of the proposals and the changes to definitions they would involve. I have listened carefully to those on the Front Benches this afternoon.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Does the hon. Lady agree that we also need clarity about coalitions of charities—they may be experts on this—and what happens when individual members in a network engage in political campaigning?

[Dr Whiteford]

That is an important point and I will return to a concrete example from my experience and highlight the work of the Stop Climate Chaos coalition in Scotland, which I think enabled and facilitated cross-party support for the passage of a world-leading piece of legislation—the Climate Change (Scotland) Act 2009. It is exactly such campaigns that will be in jeopardy and might simply not happen, if we take the Electoral Commission’s evidence seriously.

Another concern is that a much wider range of activities will be regulated, including organisations’ media activities. The explanatory notes state:

“The definition of ‘for election purposes’ does not rely solely on the intent of the third party; the effect of the expenditure must also be considered.”

Such spending can be controlled

“regardless of whether incurring the expenditure”

is

“intended…for another purpose.”

That belies the Government’s statement, made to try to assuage hon. Members, that the measure will not have a restrictive effect—it clearly will have such an effect.

The Electoral Commission has raised some of the most serious concerns about the Bill, including the lack of pre-legislative scrutiny. I cannot help but believe that pre-legislative scrutiny would have gone an awfully long way to address problems with the Bill. However, in pointing out the obvious—that campaigning organisations are not like political parties—the commission highlights the difficulties it foresees in the discretion it will have to interpret what activity will be regulated as political campaigning. It has made it clear that it does not believe it is appropriate for it to have such wide-ranging discretion. In any case, it is concerned that the wide definition in the Bill and its explanatory notes of “election purposes” will be open to legal challenge.

I know from my involvement in charities that they are often very risk-averse—other hon. Members with extensive involvement in charities have said the same. They will shy away from anything that might embroil them in difficult legal wrangling and threaten their charitable purposes under their charitable status. The measure will lead to a risk-averse and self-censoring culture among charitable organisations. Also, no hon. Member has so far mentioned the capacity of the Electoral Commission to deal with the new layer of bureaucracy.

It is important for the Government to address the regulation of third-party spending at elections, but they must do so in a coherent way. Part 2 of the Bill goes much further than their stated intentions. I hope they take on board the concerns hon. Members have highlighted in the debate about the duplication and spiralling of regulation.

I have not had time to go into the referendum in Scotland and the regulations that have been agreed. However, I hope the Deputy Leader of the House takes the opportunity when winding-up to address that and other issues, and that he affirms the positive role of an outspoken civil society.

Finance (No. 4) Bill

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Dr Whiteford]

I absolutely agree. In fact, that was one of the points that I wanted to make, because that subject has been eclipsed in the debate about the changes.

The Government have made great play of the recent increases to the state pension, and seem to suggest that they will somehow offset the changes to the tax allowances. As the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) pointed out, however, we must remember that that is simply an inflationary rise. It will only keep pace with prices; it is not an increase. It is only a small step in the right direction towards restoring pensioners’ incomes to a level that most of us would recognise as providing a decent standard of living.

I have mentioned in the House before that the way in which pensioners experience inflation can differ markedly from the way in which the general population as a whole experiences it. One of the most obvious and significant examples of that relates to heating and domestic fuel costs. Retired people are more likely to have to heat their homes during the day, while the rest of us enjoy the benefit of our workplace heating systems. Many pensioners also find it harder to keep warm because of their age and the fact that they are not moving about so much. So any inflation in the cost of energy is felt disproportionately by pensioners, and nowhere more so than in those parts of these islands that experience consistently colder weather.

Last year, we saw sharp and dramatic increases in home energy costs, which played a big part in driving inflation up to over 5%. Energy prices have come down since that peak, but I heard on the news this morning that some economic commentators believe that inflation this year is going to be well above the Bank of England forecasts that the Government are using, and that we could experience inflation of over 3% this year as well. The welcome increases in the state pension have only kept it in line with inflation and might not keep it in line with inflation as it is experienced by people of pensionable age. That is why the Government’s argument that the changes to age-related tax allowances are compensated for by the increases in the state pension is somewhat spurious. In real terms, this tax grab squeezes the incomes of pensioners on modest incomes.

It is also all too easy to forget that pensioners have already paid a heavy price for the financial crisis. Those pensioners affected by these new changes to age-related allowances are in many cases the same people who saw the value of their savings and investments plummet in the wake of the financial crisis. Since then, they have had to contend with record low interest rates, coupled with high inflation. As the Treasury Committee reminded us earlier this week, quantitative easing, whatever its intended consequences, has had some very nasty side effects for those reaching retirement age and looking to buy an annuity in the last few years.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

The hon. Lady, like me, has many pensioners in her constituency who are on modest incomes and thought they could afford to live out their retirement and be able to cope with running a car, higher food prices and all the other added costs of rural living. Does she agree that this change is going to wreck the plans of many of those pensioners?

[Dr Whiteford]

I agree entirely. It is about not only rural and transport costs, but increases in VAT, cuts in fuel allowances and so forth. All these things have put a real squeeze on people living on fixed incomes, who have little opportunity to find money from any other source. These have not been easy financial times for those on fixed incomes, who have been the forgotten victims of the financial crisis. It is not fair to say that pensioners have got off lightly so far from the public spending squeeze—quite the reverse. In considering changes to age-related allowances, we need to understand that the granny tax will tighten the screw on people who have already had significantly to tighten their belts in recent times.

Those affected by this measure are all living on below-average incomes. Most will have paid tax throughout their working lives, and most thought they were doing the responsible thing by saving for their retirement. Crucially, they do not have the opportunity to find alternative sources of income. They are on fixed incomes and are living off savings.

Common Fisheries Policy

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Thursday 15th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Fiona O'Donnell]

I think that if the hon. Lady speaks to the under-10-metre fishermen now she will find that they do not necessarily feel that the situation is getting any better under this Government. We should all have the humility to admit that when we leave government we often leave thinking that more could have been done. I expect that Government Members will have that feeling sooner than they think.

I look forward to hearing from the Minister how the EU negotiations are progressing. First, I want to examine some of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee’s key recommendations. I congratulate the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton on her work and that of her Committee and on making sure that we have been able to debate this important issue in the House. I will then go on to outline Labour’s main priorities for reform.

As many Members have said, the genuine decentralisation of powers from Brussels towards a system of regionalised management will be key to the success of the reforms. Labour supports greater regionalisation. We think it is important that countries should work together in regional groups to ensure that fisheries are managed more sustainably. It would be helpful if the Minister could tell the House which European member states he is working with to ensure that meaningful regionalisation is delivered. Who are our allies on this issue and what progress is he making? Will he also update us on any discussions he has had about regionalisation with the devolved Administrations?

In the run-up to the EU’s draft proposals published last summer, Commissioner Damanaki spoke of her desire to overhaul the CFP to get away from the micro-management of Brussels and install a bottom-up approach. Concerns have been expressed, however, that the Commission’s proposals are falling short of the mark. The commissioner insists that that is not due to a lack of political will but is the result of the limitations of the Lisbon treaty to devolve powers and says that she has gone as far as she can go. The Committee has put forward an alternative legal framework and asked the Minister to explore that option. That issue was also raised by the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford).

Last year, in a Back-Bench debate on the reform of the CFP in the House, the Minister said that

“currently the proposals lack crucial detail on how regionalisation will work.”—[Official Report, 15 November 2011; Vol. 535, c. 741.]

What discussions has the Minister had with the commissioner on the regionalisation of powers to member states, and has he sought any legal advice on the devolution of powers from Brussels to regional advisory councils?

The Committee gave considerable thought to the implications of introducing maximum sustainable yield deadlines by 2015 and concluded that a target of 2020 is more appropriate. I think that it has benefited the House to have on the record a more reasoned explanation of the targets the Committee recommended than those we have seen in the media lately. With 75% of European stocks now exploited beyond safe levels, compared with 25% for stocks worldwide, it is clear that we need to take urgent action now. MSY has already been achieved for some stocks, but Europe is lagging behind. Labour believes that achieving MSY by 2015 should still be the goal. Does the Minister share that view? The Government must play their part in ensuring that we move towards that goal in line with our international commitments. Will he update the House on what progress is being made to achieve MSY for all commercial UK stocks by 2015?

There has been much to say on discards, which is something the public certainly care deeply about. Members from both sides of the House agree that Europe must get to grips with the problem, because throwing perfectly good fish back into the sea is utterly unacceptable. Labour is clear that we need a specific timeline. I am concerned by reports in The Guardian today that a group of member states, led by France and Spain, are attempting to pass a declaration that includes a clause dismissing the ban as unrealistic and too prescriptive, which could effectively lead to the indefinite continuation of discards. That is simply unacceptable. What discussions has the Minister had with France and Germany on that, and will he reaffirm his commitment to ending discards? Furthermore, will he tell us when and how that should be achieved? We are not asking much of him. The industry, north and south of the border, has demonstrated that using more selective fishing methods is part of the solution. Catch quota trials and Project 50% have been very successful in reducing discards. Does he agree that the scheme should be expanded in the period leading up to a ban on discards?

I would like to set out Labour’s main priorities for reform of the CFP. Overcapacity has led to the destruction of Europe’s fish stocks. The problem is simple: we are over-fishing our seas. I think that the most remarkable comment we heard today was from the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil), who harked back to a time when there were no quotas or discards and people simply went out and fished. The reality is that technology has moved on and countries can now fish in areas far from home. The idea that we could pull out of a common framework for managing our fisheries is simply unrealistic. The European fleet has grown too large and is catching too many fish. The current system favours the short-term interests of large-scale, often unsustainable, industrial operators. That has led to the lion’s share of resources and profits becoming concentrated in the hands of a relatively small number of fishing enterprises in Europe.

[Dr Whiteford]

Does the hon. Lady agree that the Scottish fleet, which has halved in size in the past 10 years, should not have to pay again for the overall European reduction in fleet sizes that is required and that the people who have done more than anyone else to promote sustainability and change the way they work should get the credit for what they have achieved?

[Fiona O'Donnell]

I think that Members everywhere in the Chamber, apart from where the hon. Lady sits, have the interest of the whole UK fishing industry at heart; that is certainly the case for me. What is certain, however, is that if Scotland became an independent nation, our fishermen would face a very uncertain future.

We have not heard much mention of fishing in external waters. One Member raised the issue, but I certainly do not want to disappoint her by returning to it today.

I congratulate the hon. Member for South East Cornwall on the Westminster Hall debate that she secured and for exposing the actions of trawlers in the waters off Mauritania. European waters have been over-fished, and now we are shipping our problems overseas. The EU fleet takes 25% of its annual catch from outside European waters, and EU taxpayers are subsidising the expansion of some of the biggest and most powerful trawlers in Europe into the waters off the western coast of Africa.

Neither EU member states nor fragile coastal fishing communities in western Africa can afford the reform of the CFP to become a missed opportunity. Reform is a real chance for change in Europe, and it could tackle over-fishing by EU fleets in external waters, so will the Minister update the House on his discussions with other member states about the exploitation of fish stocks in external waters?

Secondly, on the inshore fleet, Labour wants a reformed CFP that rewards those who fish more sustainably and selectively and with less impact on the environment. The UK’s inshore fleet represents more than three quarters of the entire UK fleet and employs 65% of its work force, yet it receives just 4% of the quota allocated to the UK under the CFP.

Labour believes that that imbalance must be addressed, and we want a fairer distribution of quota among the fleet. The draft CFP regulations contain a proposal whereby member states may withhold up to 5% of their national quota to encourage and reward operators that reduce discards and improve environmental performance. Labour thinks that should be increased to 20% to reward fishermen, including small-scale fishermen, who operate in a more environmentally sustainable way and who contribute positively to coastal communities.

Fisheries are a Government-held public resource, so we think it right that Government decide who should be able to access them, but, as the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton has pointed out, astonishingly the Government do not even know who owns the quota that they hand out. We want to see an entirely transparent register of quotas, and I join the hon. Lady in asking the Minister to update the House on progress in that area.

The New Under Ten Fishermens Association, NUTFA, the organisation that represents the domestic under-10-metre fleet, is calling for root-and-branch reform to create an inshore fleet that is fit for purpose. The Minister has responded with six community quota group pilots, so will he update the House on their progress and on the response to them from the under-10s? May I suggest to him that a crucial part of reform could be the creation of an inshore producer organisation? I have heard the proposal when meeting fishermen from the under-10-metre fleet. Is the Minister willing to consider it?

The rules that govern our fisheries are broken. Ahead of Rio+20, where food security and our oceans will be high on the agenda, it is vital that we put our own house in order. It is not too late to turn the tide. Now is the time for the Government to show renewed determination and leadership, and to pursue truly ambitious reform.

Unemployment

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Wednesday 14th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

Today’s employment statistics make extremely sobering reading. They spell out more clearly than any of our speeches today just how much our economy is struggling and how the recovery is faltering. We know from the Office for Budget Responsibility that the UK economy is already contracting in the final quarter of this year and we can predict with some confidence that there will be more turbulent times in 2012.

[Fiona O'Donnell]

Has the hon. Lady seen the latest statistics showing that Scotland had the second-worst unemployment in the UK in the last quarter? Does she think that her Government in Holyrood have any responsibility for those figures?

[Dr Whiteford]

I am certainly happy to look at that because the sharp increase in unemployment in Scotland is very concerning. However, over the past year as a whole, unemployment in Scotland has fallen and employment has risen. That compares very favourably with the record of the hon. Lady’s Administration. For most of the past few years, employment in Scotland has outperformed employment in the rest of the UK. That record contrasts sharply with the situation when Labour and the Liberal Democrats were in coalition in Scotland.

We have to look at the big picture and remember that when the Government set us down the path of austerity a year and a half ago, many of us warned that taking the feet out from under the public sector was not the way to boost employment and growth in the private sector. We said that the cuts went too far too quickly and it gives me no pleasure whatever to be proved right on that front. It is now abundantly clear that the medicine is not working and is not achieving the results we want. I accept that the Government have not been in control of some of the external circumstances, but nevertheless those risks were always apparent. The Government need to acknowledge that their plan is not working and that it is time for a change of direction.

What has been disappointing this afternoon is the very ideological and doctrinaire approach taken by Members on the Government Benches to their prescriptions. It would be helpful if we acknowledged the interdependence of the public and the private sectors. The bottom line is that the UK as a whole is losing public sector jobs faster than the private sector can create them. We all know that borrowing is still very difficult for small and medium-sized enterprises, which is a major source of potential growth. We know that business confidence is low, but in that circumstance it makes no sense at all to punish the public sector when the private sector just cannot keep up.

Paradoxically, that is the opposite of what has been happening in Scotland. One of the interesting things—

Scotland Bill

Debate between Eilidh Whiteford and Fiona O'Donnell

Tuesday 15th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Fiona O’Donnell]

I will make my contribution brief as well, although I shall not speak at quite the same speed as the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil). He reminded me of a child who needed to go to the toilet as he delivered his speech so terribly quickly. The hon. Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) said that he had risen to speak with a heavy heart. I am rising with a sore head, and that is not just about the sleep deprivation that I mentioned earlier. It is because I honestly cannot understand what possessed the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar to table this new clause. He cannot bring a proposal before the Committee and then not want us to discuss its possible implications. He cannot tell us what any Scottish Government, even his own, might choose to do with such powers, given that he voted against the sell-off of the forests in England while his Government tried to sell off the forests in Scotland. It is essential that we scrutinise the implications of the new clause. It exposes the fact that the SNP is good at minority reports and at gesture politics, but not good at government.

[Dr Whiteford]

I will take entirely personally the hon. Lady’s positive comment about minority reports. I took part in a debate on the issue of time zones a few months ago, and I was struck by the strength of feeling among many Government Members who represent English constituencies who would really like to see the time zones in this country change. My worry is that that would plunge my constituents into darkness on winter mornings, meaning that they would have to contend not only with icy roads and low temperatures but with limited amounts of sunlight. A Scottish Government would have no room in any negotiations on that matter, should a Government in this place choose to impose a change to the existing arrangements. As I understand it, the whole point of my hon. Friend’s new clause is to strengthen the likelihood of maintaining the existing arrangements, not to undermine them.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

I am still struggling to follow this argument. The SNP is asking for a power that it says it has no intention of using because the effects would be undesirable. The hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar seemed to say that, should the time zone change here, he would recommend that the Scottish Government fell in line with such a decision as he had no intention of having two different time zones. It has already been pointed out that we are far more likely to end up with two time zones if we devolve this power. It would be easier for such a decision to be taken simply on the basis of taking English concerns into account.