Oral Answers to Questions

Ed Miliband Excerpts

Wednesday 26th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend, who is himself a distinguished churchman, talks perfect sense. There is nothing moral about running up huge deficits and out-of-control welfare bills. If we do not deal with those problems the whole country will be poorer. We should listen to the words of George Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, who said that

“the churches should beware of the dangers of blithely defending a gargantuan welfare budget that every serious politician would cut as a matter of economic common sense.”

I think that serious politicians have to engage with this, and that should go for everybody.

[Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)]

I join my hon. Friend the Member for Livingston (Graeme Morrice) and the Prime Minister in congratulating Team GB on a brilliant performance at the winter Olympics.

As the immediate threat of floods passes, there are still thousands out of their homes; parts of the Somerset levels are still under water; and hundreds of businesses and farms are still struggling to recover. The Committee on Climate Change, the House of Commons Library and the UK Statistics Authority have all now said that Government investment in flood defences has fallen. In the light of this and of the events we have seen, does the Prime Minister think it is right to revisit the plans for investment in flood defences?

[The Prime Minister]

We will look very carefully at the plans for flood defences, but of course we have set out spending figures all the way to 2020, not all of which are fully committed, which are major investments in flood defences. As I said two weeks ago, as the waters recede and as the Environment Agency and others can look at what happened, we can review and see what new measures might be necessary. Let me just repeat the point that in this four-year period, and indeed in this Parliament, overall spending on flood defences has gone up.

[Edward Miliband]

I am afraid that the figures the Prime Minister is quoting are phoney, and I believe he knows it. This is what the UK Statistics Authority says—[Interruption.] I know that Government Members do not want to hear it, but it says:

“government funding for flood defences was lower in both nominal and real terms during the current spending period than during the last”.

The only way to claim otherwise is by ignoring inflation and claiming credit for the money that other organisations—other than Government—spend. Why does the Prime Minister not admit it? They have cut flood defence spending, and he has been caught out.

[The Prime Minister]

The fact is that in the period from 2010, when I became Prime Minister, to 2014, the spending has been £2.4 billion—more than the £2.2 billion in the previous four years. In the five-year period of this Parliament, during all of which I will be Prime Minister, the spending is higher than for the previous five years. Those are the facts.

I have to say to the right hon. Gentleman that I think having this debate is slightly pointless. The whole country should be coming together to deal with flood defences. The fact is that from the moment he turned up in a flooded village with the Labour candidate alongside him, he has completely misjudged the mood of the country.

[Edward Miliband]

First, let me say to the Prime Minister that if it is a simple choice between the UK Statistics Authority and him, people will believe the UK Statistics Authority on what has happened. The assessment of how much to invest in flood defence depends significantly on an assessment of the risks posed by man-made climate change. In opposition, he said this about climate change:

“It’s easy to do the softer things like ride your bike, visit glaciers and rebuild your house to make it green”—

it is he who said it—

“but it’s only clear you mean it when you do the tough things as well. Like telling the truth about climate change.”

So what is the truth about climate change?

[The Prime Minister]

The truth about climate change is that this Government have a programme to reduce carbon right across our economy. We started with the Government themselves: compared with the Government the right hon. Gentleman left in 2010, when he was Energy and Climate Change Secretary, the Government’s own carbon emissions are down 14%.

Let me just return to the issue of flood defence spending, because I think the people of this country will want to know this. The right hon. Gentleman is committed to a zero-based spending review. [Interruption.] “Yes, we are,” says the shadow Chancellor in an unusually helpful intervention. A zero-based spending review means that the Opposition cannot pledge to match the flood spending we are making in 2016, 2017, 2018 and all the way to 2020. The people of this country have absolutely no guarantee that they will take either climate change seriously or flood defences seriously.

[Edward Miliband]

What total nonsense, and the Prime Minister knows it. It is very interesting, because someone who in opposition wanted to talk as much as he could about climate change is now desperate to get off the subject. I asked him a question: will he just set out for his party and for the country his views on man-made climate change?

[The Prime Minister]

I believe that man-made climate change is one of the most serious threats that this country and this world face. That is why we have the world’s first green investment bank here in Britain. That is why, unlike in the 13 wasted years of Labour, we are building the first nuclear power station for 30 years in this country. That is why we have cut the carbon that is emitted by the Government by 14% since coming to office. That is why we have set out, year after year, carbon budgets for this country. The Opposition talk a good game, but it takes people to come in and govern effectively to deal with it.

[Edward Miliband]

Excellent; we are getting somewhere. I agree with what the Prime Minister said about the importance of climate change. The reason this matters is that people in the most important positions in his Government are going around questioning climate change. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has said:

“People get very emotional about this subject and I think we should just accept that the climate has been changing for centuries,”

and he refuses to be briefed on climate change. The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), when asked about climate change, said:

“You are not going to draw me on that. I’ve not had time to get into the…climate change debate.”

That is the Energy Minister! Will the Prime Minister clarify his position? Is he happy to have climate change deniers in his Government?

[The Prime Minister]

This is obviously the new approach to Prime Minister’s questions: the right hon. Gentleman comes to the House and praises the Prime Minister for his commitment on climate change and the environment. I like the new style. I thought that I might miss Punch and Judy, but this is much more refreshing.

The Government have a solid track record of cutting carbon, negotiating internationally and investing in nuclear. We have the biggest renewable energy programme in our country’s history. For the first time in a long time, we are on track to meet our renewables targets. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would like to get up again and congratulate me on that excellent record on the environment.

[Edward Miliband]

The whole country will have heard that the Prime Minister cannot answer the question about whether people need to believe in man-made climate change to be part of his Government. He has gone from thinking that it was a basic part of his credo to thinking that it is a matter of individual conscience. He used to claim that it was his passion above all else. Here’s the thing: if we are properly to protect—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The questions and the answers will be heard, however long it takes. Those who are exercising their vocal cords in a rather excessive way really ought to calm down. There is quite a long way to go.

[Edward Miliband]

Here’s the thing: if we are properly to protect the British people against the threats that they face, we cannot have doubt and confusion in the Government on the issue of climate change. The Prime Minister needs to rediscover the courage of his past convictions and tell his party to get real on climate change.

[The Prime Minister]

People can measure the courage of my convictions by my acts in government: the green investment bank, the cuts in carbon, the investment in renewables and the investment in nuclear. The right hon. Gentleman talks a good game, but he did not achieve anything in office. The most serious form of denial in British politics today comes from the reality deniers of the Labour party. What is their plan for the deficit? Nothing. What is their plan for welfare reform? Nothing. What is their plan for long-term investment, because that is what is required in respect of climate change? It requires long-term investment like high-speed rail, long-term investment like nuclear power and long-term investment like fixing our economy. That is what this Government are doing. All he does is get up and deliver a lot of hot air.