Iran
Debate between Edward Leigh and Brian Binley(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)
I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) on his courage. I fear that my conclusions might mean that I cannot go through the Lobby with him, which is saddening. May I also pay tribute to Lord Corbett of Castle Vale, who sadly died very recently? He was a great contributor to debates on Iran, and I know that many Members of this House would wish to join me in saying how greatly he will be missed.
This is an opportune moment to consider Iran. The conduct and ambitions of the Government of Iran run counter to our interests and to the peace and security of the region. We must not lose sight of that fact. We therefore need a credible and sustainable response, and our actions should be based on the most up-to-date information and analysis. To my knowledge, that has sadly not been the case in the Foreign Office over the past 15 years—indeed, at a meeting with a previous Minister, who has now left this place, I was assured that the People’s Mujahedin of Iran had not renounced its pledge to give up weapons and fight for peaceful internal change in Iran. The fact that the Foreign Office was not in control and that it had that information in its hands six years after that position was stated and agreed is very worrying indeed. My hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer) made the point that much misinformation has been accepted as information by the Foreign Office, which has been harmful to our cause.
I wanted to talk at length about the Iranians’ human rights record, but many others have paid heed to that problem. It is indeed a scar on the face of humanity, as we all know. We also know that the Iranian regime is not one that we can do business with as a trusted ally, and it never will be. We should, however, strive for robust and honest relations with Iran. There are Iranians who share that appetite for positive dealings. Sadly, until a few months ago our approach to them was variable. Our dealings with the PMOI and with Camp Ashraf are symptomatic of that weakness. As I said, the PMOI stated in 2002 that it was working for a peaceful transition to a democratic Iran, but that aim was not recognised. Ministers need to make decisions based on the best and most reliable information, but there have been serious concerns about the quality of analysis and the currency of the information available.
I remind Members that Camp Ashraf is home to 3,500 Iranian dissidents, including 1,000 women, living in Iraq. All members of the PMOI, they originally opposed the mullahs’ regime. The PMOI is the largest opposition group and the greatest thorn in the side of the present Iranian regime, as proved by the fact that more than 90% of the 120,000 political prisoners executed by the regime have been members of the PMOI. It is that group’s success in harnessing widespread support that engenders the hatred directed towards it by the regime. That is why the blacklisting of the PMOI was an initial Iranian precondition for participation in international talks in 2002. The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) sadly acceded to that request as a result of attempting to appease Iran. The talks, of course, never happened.
Mr Binley
I will explain. My hon. Friend asks how looking at the case of the PMOI will help to resolve the Iranian situation. The truth is that cruelty and inhumanity have been visited on Camp Ashraf residents as a matter of routine by the Iraqis at the behest of Iran—the Iraqis have acted as Iran’s proxies. Ensuring that the Iraqi Prime Minister, Mr al-Maliki, and the Iraqi Government change their attitude, as they should do, would diminish Iran’s position in the middle east and weaken its role in the wider world. That is how changing attitudes towards the PMOI and to the people who live in Camp Ashraf can be of help.
This is not just a matter of a few thousand Iranian dissidents in Camp Ashraf, however. The situation raises fundamental questions about the entire region, and beyond. The al-Maliki Government’s flagrant disregard for human life, universal rights and international laws should ring alarm bells. When people see that the depth of cruelty and inhumanity following western intervention is not much better than it was under Saddam Hussein, is it any wonder that they are cynical about our motives and actions? When they see that the al-Maliki Government’s actions present him as a western-supported puppet of the Iranian regime, are they not entitled to ask why we sacrificed so much blood to achieve that objective? If we are to find an effective way to tackle the crisis of intransigence and hostility from the Iranian Government, it will not be done through examples of that kind.
That is why I call on the Government tonight to promise to act to ensure the removal of Iraqi forces from the perimeter of Camp Ashraf, to end the siege and to lift the ban on journalists, parliamentary groups, lawyers and families of residents entering the camp. Residents, particularly those who have been wounded, must be given immediate access to medical services in public hospitals. There must be an independent inquiry by a panel of jurists into the actions perpetrated at the camp. Residents should also be entitled to the return of their personal belongings. Such actions would, I repeat, immediately undermine al-Maliki’s role and position as a proxy of the Iranians, which would be in the interests of us all.
We have heard some bold attacks by the Minister of late, and they are most welcome, but I regret the fact that we have not pressed the United Nations to take action on Camp Ashraf. I look to the Minister tonight to say that we will do so, if for no other reason than respect for the lives lost in Iraq, which we should honour and can honour, by protecting the very people now under attack by the Iraqi regime. If we are to overcome the real threat of Iran, we must stop appeasing the regime as we are in relation to Camp Ashraf and the PMOI.
Following the failed adventures in Iraq, Iran is much more powerful. Threatening it with military adventures is not the answer, but we need to stop being weak in the face of the Iranian bullies and work with those best placed to bring about positive change for Iran, in Iran and by Iranians themselves—many of them young people who have a vision far more positive than Ahmadinejad and his supporters.
Council of Europe (UK Chairmanship)
Debate between Edward Leigh and Brian Binley(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)
I thank the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), who is leaving his place, for reminding me that I need a haircut this weekend.
I am a member of the Council of Europe—and a proud member, actually. I am rather surprised by how much I am enjoying it, but you will understand the reasons, Mr Deputy Speaker.
I welcome many of the Minister’s remarks. I was especially pleased to hear his comments about a Bill of Rights and about subsidiarity. The Government seem to have a real programme to implement over the six months of our chairmanship, and most of us in this House would welcome that. However, we shall be scrutinising his work and keeping an eye on him. That is the job of this place, and I know that he will welcome it.
Mr Binley
I am sure he will.
The European Court of Human Rights has a proud history of defending the rights of individuals, but there is no doubt that there have been several questionable judgments that raise issues about its competence across the piece. I refer to the membership of the judges’ bench. It has already been said that a number of judges have little judicial experience, and indeed that some of them were political appointees. That does no good for the whole concept of jurisprudence. We ought to be making an effort to ensure that a court of this importance is matched by the quality of the judges who sit on its benches, and the sooner we get down to that, the better it will be. One judge was reported not to understand the concept of legal precedents. When one gets that sort of ignorance in a court of this kind, one begins to wonder what sort of justice it imparts. Indeed, many people in this country have begun to believe that some of its judgments are, to say the least, beyond the pale. Those people are responsible for overturning the decisions of this House and our courts, so we have a right to expect a greater degree of competence and better qualifications. I know that the Minister will take those thoughts on board.
My next point is about languages—a subject touched on by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Oliver Heald). The 2005 Woolf report made 26 recommendations on the working methods of the European Court of Human Rights. One was the provision of language training, and yet that has not been implemented. We all know that interpreters can change the nuance of language dramatically when they interpret one language into another. Because the nuance changes, the meaning can be totally different. That is simply unfair to the people who put their trust and faith in the European Court of Human Rights. I urge the Minister to put language training for judges on his little list as an absolute priority.
The 2010 Interlaken conference and declaration stressed the need to preserve the high quality of the European Court of Human Rights. I have already referred to the lack of quality. This matter is consistently asked about, and it is consistently recorded that we need to do things. No wonder the people of this country get a little impatient when nothing happens. I want to send the European Court of Human Rights the message that it must get its act together, because it is undermining the confidence of the people of this country—and, no doubt, that of the people in other countries—which is so necessary for it in doing its work.
I was going to talk about prisoner voting, but we had a big debate on that recently. Suffice it to say that I believe that prisoners are in prison by choice. They are not forced to break the law; they choose to break the law. Therefore, there is no problem with the removal of that human right. They choose to deny themselves that human right. We ought to do some plain talking when this matter comes before the Committee of Ministers.
I also question the judges’ appreciation of our values and legal procedures. This nation is lucky to have a common law based on almost 1,000 years of life experience—a common law that has served this nation well. To my mind, it covered all the necessary protections of the people of this country. Indeed, they seem to think that it covered the necessary protections themselves. The fact that there are so many different codes of law in a 47 nation-strong Europe underlines the need for greater knowledge of the various codes of law in those countries. If necessary, that might require a division of the judges’ bench. We certainly need them to understand our code of law if they are making judgments about our citizens.
Employment Opportunities Bill
Debate between Edward Leigh and Brian Binley
Mr Leigh
Obviously, if the Bill is allowed to progress to Committee, we will have to tease out some of those points. My hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch accused me of being a paternalist, but there is nothing wrong with thinking like a parent. I suspect that this is a clash between the free market wing and the socially conservative wing of the Conservative party.
The Victorian age has been mentioned. Many Victorian owners were very bad and we can read about them in Dickens’s novels, but many, particularly those inspired by conscience, religious faith and other such factors, were superb employers. There was a big debate about these issues in Victorian times. Without boring the House, I want briefly to allude to a papal encyclical called “Rerum Novarum”, issued in the latter part of the 19th century, which made it absolutely clear that the wage earner is entitled to a just wage and that we cannot live with an untrammelled free market because there is a mismatch in power between employer and employee. These are very important issues that must be addressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch before the Bill becomes law.
Mr Binley
I find my hon. Friend’s contribution interesting, but will he accept an example of an experience that was brought to me in my constituency? Some people were made redundant through no fault of the owner of the company—the recession smacked him hard. Three of the elder members of the group who wanted to work, for their own esteem and because they felt that working had a greater relevance to their lives than not working, went to him and suggested that they take a cut below the minimum wage for a limited period. He looked into it and found that he could not do that, of course. Is that not a foolish situation when we are trying to encourage people to recognise that work is a valuable part of the human experience?
Mr Leigh
That is an excellent intervention that shows the moral issues in our debate. There will undoubtedly be situations—this is where I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch and why I think his Bill deserves to be debated in Committee—involving a perfectly good and caring employer, such as the one described by my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley), who is in a difficult situation and employees who are desperate to keep their jobs. We must be aware of that.
There are two other issues that are worth mentioning. The first is the increasing scandal of internships, particularly for young graduates. I feel quite strongly about this matter, which has already been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone). I suppose I should declare an interest as a parent, and two of my children are already graduates. All of us who are parents know that whereas our generation—that of my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch and myself—left university in times of full employment, young people are increasingly trapped in a disgraceful situation in which employers tell them that they can work for them, but only if they work for nothing. I do not think that that is right.
When I take on an intern in the House of Commons, I pay them the minimum wage. I am firm on that. It is fine if a young person between school and university wants to come here for a week’s work experience and work for nothing, but I am absolutely clear that if someone is working here for six months or so, they should get the minimum wage, and I will not pay any less than that. However, many young people are now trapped.
One advantage of the Bill—it is worth debating further—is the excellent idea of a training wage, which I see as a kind of halfway house. It would enable employers to pay graduates something, although my view is that, if the company involved is in the City, it should pay the minimum wage. It is better if young graduates, having worked so hard to get through university, are not in the dreadful situation of kicking their heels at home or, if they do work, getting nothing for it. We must have a proper debate about the scandal of internships. It is good that my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch has put that in his Bill. It is a Back-Bench Bill and we all know that in reality it is unlikely to become law. However, we need a fuller debate on that matter.
We also need a fuller debate on clause 1, and my hon. Friend has been honest about that. It deals with a subject we do not hear much about. It is a scandal that in this country large number of foreign nationals—people whose applications for British citizenship are being considered, or asylum seekers—are trapped in the appalling situation of not being able to work. I think that we are a bit dishonest with ourselves about that.
The hon. Member for Harrow West, made the valid point that we should not allow employers to pay less than the minimum wage because all that will happen is that the taxpayer will have to step in through the tax credit system. My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley said that he did not agree with a tax credit system, but that is a bit of a simplistic argument. It is impossible for people with children to raise a family on anything much less than the minimum wage plus some tax credit. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall) made the point that we should have an honest debate about what basic national benefit should be paid to keep people in body and soul. I have always argued that a universal minimum benefit payment should be available, with a minimum of churning of taxation on top of that, and as flat a tax rate as possible, which would encourage people into employment. The trouble is that so much of our minimum wage-tax credit system does not help the poor. It often traps people in unemployment and dependency and discourages people from going into employment. Those issues need to be debated much more honestly, so I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Christchurch on introducing the Bill. It is an interesting Bill that raises issues of great importance, and I hope that it will be allowed into Committee.
Oral Answers to Questions
Debate between Edward Leigh and Brian Binley(13 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)
In response to the UK’s fiscal situation, the National Audit Office’s strategy for the three years from April 2011 set out plans to save 15% in nominal terms and 21% in real terms over that period. In exploring the strategy in November, the commission considered the effect of the cost reductions on public spending and on the NAO’s work on the use of resources by public sector bodies. The commission concluded that the cost reduction proposals were sound, and it approved the NAO’s budgets for the three-year period.
Mr Binley
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. However, does he recognise that the National Audit Office generates about 11 times its cost in savings? Was the commission therefore wise to create a reduction? Should the NAO not be given its usual allowance of resources to allow it to save more money for the general public?
Mr Leigh
Normally, I agree with my hon. Friend, but the NAO cannot be exempt from the pressure on the budgets of all Departments. It is vital that the NAO leads by example. Under the guidance of the commission, it is doing as many reports as possible, more economically and more speedily, and is saving more money for the taxpayer.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Edward Leigh and Brian Binley(14 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Binley
It is absolutely bust! In fact, the previous Government recognised that and tried to enact a Bill, but they did not have the courage to carry it through. So we want no lessons from Labour Members. The Post Office is a bust flush. Its management needs rejuvenating, its work force are demoralised and its pension fund is in massive deficit. If that does not add up to a company that is totally off the rails, then I do not know what does. It would do the Opposition good to recognise that fact, rather than pontificating about a matter that they dared not deal with.
The Post Office faces a massive challenge. Volumes have declined enormously since 2005, and they are now down by 13 million units per day. Good God! If any other business faced that kind of decline, it would instantly recognise that it was bust; it would not need me to tell it. The Post Office is now 40% less efficient than its European competitors, and its modernisation programme is proceeding exceptionally slowly.
Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that if I had been allowed to privatise the Post Office when I was the Minister with responsibility for it 17 years ago, we would now have a world-beating international company earning huge riches for this country? That was a wasted opportunity, and we must never fail again. We should privatise it as soon as possible.