Trade (Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership) Bill [HL]

Earl of Sandwich Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 21st November 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, trade has always been a subtle and underrated form of foreign policy and, before he leaves, I welcome the new Foreign Secretary to the House for this debate, and I wish him well. He has just returned from Ukraine and I hope that, as a by-product of the war with Russia, this Government will work more closely with Europe, not only in defence but in trade and international development.

I recognise that this legislation is technical but, like others, I have questions about where the Bill fits within the UK’s trade scrutiny policy, and I wish to seek clarity on certain aspects of the agreement. I particularly acknowledge the help of Trade Justice Movement.

It is nearly a year since I left the International Agreements Committee, but I well remember our first meetings with the Minister—he is very friendly—which were chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter. I am glad to see her, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, back today. I also welcome back the Trade Minister as one of the Government’s survivors from the last 12 months. Today I shall take him back to some of our previous conversations about scrutiny, deforestation and food standards. I must also say that we all miss the unique personality of the late noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris, who was nothing less than a stalwart on the subject of agriculture and especially the too often ignored interests of the Welsh uplands.

With regard to scrutiny, as others have said, I regret that the CRaG process by which the CPTPP and other trade treaties are ratified remains unfit for purpose. Parliament should have more input into shaping the UK’s negotiating objectives and should have sight of negotiating texts as talks progress. That is important behind-the-scenes business. There is international precedent for this in the US Congress. I agree with my noble friend Lord Kerr that we need a debate on trade strategy. That point has been made already.

I understand that accession to the CPTPP is a little different from the negotiation of a new trade treaty, but increased scrutiny will improve and not hinder our trade outcomes. Red lines established by Parliament could strengthen the hands of negotiators, so I hope the Minister will give us some reassurance that there will be a vote on a substantive Motion on accession and that it will be held in another place during the CRaG period.

As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, there is also a procedural question regarding timing, given that CRaG has not yet commenced. We are debating legislation that implements an agreement to which Parliament has not yet consented and on which the committee is still taking evidence. It does not have to be like this; is it not rather illogical? Can the Minister explain why the Government have introduced the Bill so far ahead of CRaG? It could have been the other way round.

On NGOs, the Minister may recall his response to a Written Question that he gave me in July: that the department had carried out one of the most thorough consultation exercises ever. But this is not the story I hear from the NGOs. They refer to the system set up originally by the DIT to generate dialogues, such as the trade advisory groups or TAGs, which are still not working properly. Does the Minister agree that these systems must be improved if we are going to have outside opinion?

On specific aspects of the agreement, there is still widespread concern about the effect of reduced tariffs, for example on expanding palm oil imports leading to deforestation. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned this. It is occurring in several member states, notably Indonesia and Malaysia. I have read the joint declaration on sustainable agriculture with Malaysia, which is obviously —at least potentially—a notable advance. I expect that the Minister will mention that.

I have also read the impact assessment, which says:

“The agreement is not expected to have a significant impact on wider environmental issues, such as biodiversity”


and “deforestation”, but it admits that Malaysia has suffered a huge 29% fall in tree cover over the last 20 years, owing to agricultural commodities such as palm oil and, of course, international trade. Can the Minister explain how the department can monitor British companies and the many supply chains that are engaged in those giant operations? Does he know of companies practising due diligence in the CPTPP countries? It may be an unequal agreement. In the countries concerned, such as Malaysia, should the Government work more closely with local NGOs, which often have experience on the ground and the capacity to work in partnership?

As for food standards, we shall have to wait for the TAC and the FSA. I do not envy them examining so many countries. The noble Lord, Lord Trees, mentioned veterinary standards, and the noble Lord, Lord Curry, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned divergent standards on pesticides. Are the Government concerned that other member states will gain a competitive advantage from these divergences? The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned earlier that there is also deep disquiet from the Canadian meat industry regarding the UK’s regulations on hormone-treated beef. What are the prospects of the UK making concessions in this area?

I turn to human rights. I heard the new Foreign Secretary’s reassurance, but I have to take the Minister back to the India free trade agreement, on which the committee took evidence during the previous year. We had an interesting session with the department’s negotiating team and I vividly recall the lead negotiator’s attitude to human rights. It was simple: this agreement is about trade, not human rights. Human rights was not in his vocabulary, and he was the negotiator. I do not think he had even read the impact assessment. In case this negotiator is still representing the UK, I think I must repeat what some of us said at the time: trade is not just about finance and investment. It is a relationship between states based on a range of criteria such as climate, standards and moral values. These issues are constantly discussed between friends. They are important even when the UK economy badly needs—as we know it does—support from trade agreements such as the CPTPP. They are not in contradiction with one another.

Finally, on 16 July there was a joint statement with five members of the CPTPP on the environment and sustainable development. It ignored human rights. It mentioned labour rights and indigenous rights in passing, but there was nothing about governance or the rule of law, let alone supply chains and minority rights.

There is a lot to catch up with, and we look forward to subsequent debates at the stages of the Bill. I thank the Minister for his listening powers and I look forward to his answers to at least some of these questions.