Gambling: Fixed-Odds Betting Terminals
Debate between Earl of Courtown and Lord Clement-Jones
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for his questions. He talked about a number of things involving problem gambling, a broader approach and other games. I will start where he ended. In so far as other games are concerned, one must remember that it is clear that gambling-related problems are related not just to one product. This was taken into account when, in May, the response to the Consultation on Proposals for Changes to Gaming Machines and Social Responsibility Measures set out a comprehensive package of measures covering changes to the stake on B2 gaming machines, online gambling, advertising and research, and education and treatment. I will write to him with more detail on that issue.
As far as the timing of regulations is concerned, we have said that we intend to lay the draft regulations for the usual process of approval as soon as possible. We would expect operators to look to bring in the changes as soon as possible as well. In the meantime, we would expect them to look at their businesses and prepare them for the introduction of the stake reduction, to mitigate any impact. As the noble Lord is aware, I have stood at this Dispatch Box on a number of occasions on this issue and I am perfectly aware of the feelings around the House.
Lord Clement-Jones (LD)
My Lords, I cannot help but agree with the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson: this is disgraceful. The Chancellor has entirely resisted and ignored a powerful cross-party body of opinion. There is a kind of Alice in Wonderland quality about the Statement. It says:
“There also needs to be a proper period of notice, after setting the new rate, before that change to Remote Gaming Duty takes effect. The Government has therefore concluded that October 2019 is the best date to make both changes”.
What is the logic of this? I see no particular reason. Is it because the Government have bought the bookmaking industry’s case in the series of red herrings that it put forward? It was talking about the time to implement technically and time to make preparations, all of which has been punctured by the all-party group on gambling abuse. The question of job losses has been punctured by not only the Landman Economics report but the CEBR report. In fact, the industry now derives 43% of its income from online gambling. The economic and the moral arguments, which were very well put by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, are very important in these circumstances, as are the societal arguments.
I have some questions for the Minister. First, what is the view of the DCMS Minister in this respect? Pledges were made by Tracey Crouch on this matter. Has she made a separate statement from that of the Treasury? I have seen no such statement. Secondly, has an independent outside assessment been made of the human costs of the delay involved, including the possible fatalities? Thirdly, was any independent economic advice taken or even a review made of the CEBR report? That report says not only that the gambling industry will be handed hundreds of millions in extra revenue, but that if the Treasury had brought forward the date further then it would itself benefit. We are in an Alice in Wonderland situation where the Treasury is making a decision which confounds all moral, societal and economic logic. I look forward to the Minister’s reply.
The Earl of Courtown
My Lords, I will be brief because other people no doubt want to get up as well. The noble Lord, Lord Clement-Jones, mentioned that we are in essence supporting the gambling industry on this. Nothing could be further from the truth. We have to take the job losses into account. We are interested not in the profit margins of the gambling industry but in trying to mitigate any job losses that happen in the future. I repeat what I said in the Statement: the Government were urged in an Early Day Motion in June by the FOBT APPG not to wait until April 2020 and we are not doing so. He also mentioned my honourable friend the Minister for Sport. I have had the great pleasure and honour of working with her for a number of years and she is an exceptionally fine Minister.