Farriers (Registration) Bill

Earl of Caithness Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Thursday 6th April 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[The Earl of Caithness]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, as we all know, it is extremely difficult to get a Private Member’s Bill through another place, so I am very happy to congratulate my honourable friend for Gower, Byron Davies, on the excellent work he did in getting the Bill through all its stages in the Commons and to congratulate the Government on helping it get this far.

The purpose of the Bill is to:

“Make provision about the constitution of the Farriers Registration Council”—


which I will call the FRC—“and its committees”. The FRC is the regulatory body for the farrier profession in Great Britain. Its statutory responsibilities are provided for by the Farriers (Registration) Act 1975 and include maintaining a register of farriers, determining who is eligible for registration and regulating farriery training. Further, the FRC investigates and, where necessary, determines disciplinary cases through its statutory investigating committee and disciplinary committee—and there is the rub and the mischief that leads to the Bill.

For those who are following the Bill, I am grateful to the Government for the help they gave me in producing the Explanatory Notes, which go into some detail. I will take the House very briefly through the Bill. At the beginning, I underline that the FRC is not a trade union but a regulating body. As such, it has to have an up-to-date constitution. As we all know, our noble friend Lord Bew reported in September last year. He set out the danger of regulatory capture, where a profession exercises undue influence over a regulator. The whole point of the Bill is to ensure the good name of farriery for the future.

There are three organisations involved. There is the FRC, but there is also the Worshipful Company of Farriers, which sets professional standards and qualifications on a worldwide basis. People from all over the world use its standards. The British Farriers and Blacksmiths Association is the trade association. They all work in harmony for the benefit of the profession, by and large. Inevitably, there are some tensions—but that is good for a regulatory body as it keeps it up to the mark.

The Bill has three clauses. The first introduces the schedule and the second gives power to the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to make further changes to the constitution of the council and its committees through regulations. That is a significant change. At the moment, everything has to be done by primary legislation, which is why we have the Bill before us today. The third clause gives the extent, commencement and short title of the Bill. The Bill extends to England, Wales and Scotland.

The schedule is also in three parts. The first part relates to the constitution of the FRC, and the number remains at 16. What is new is that in future the appointment of a member of the council will be for a term of four years, and somebody can serve for only two terms. That is a step forward, bringing the legislation into line with other regulatory bodies. Parts 2 and 3 of the schedule deal with the constitution of the investigating committee and the disciplinary committee. This is where we get the separation of powers from where the regulatory body, the FRC, to date has been judge and jury in its own case to where you now have the regulatory body and then separate investigatory and disciplinary bodies. That is normal procedure. It is for the benefit of not only the profession but of everybody who owns a horse, and for public confidence in the profession.

To return to the constitution, it is worth pointing out that the council will consist of three persons appointed by the Worshipful Company of Farriers, one of whom must now be a farrier—and there are lots of farriers within the worshipful company; four practising farriers, an appointment made in accordance with the scheme made by the council; two registered persons appointed by the National Association of Farriers, Blacksmiths and Agricultural Engineers; two veterinary surgeons appointed by the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons; and one lay person from each of five outside bodies. I put it to your Lordships that this is hugely important because it includes bodies such as the British Horseracing Authority and the British Equestrian Federation, which are looking at the health of horses as a whole.

I ask noble Lords to give the Bill a Second Reading. This is an important, almost unique opportunity, given what is before us in the next two Sessions of Parliament, for us to get the Bill on to the statute book. I commend the Bill and I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Earl of Caithness]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate. It is with sadness that I have to say that my noble friend Lord Shrewsbury, who had his name down to speak, and would have been a great asset to our debate given his knowledge of the horse industry, clearly spread a plate before coming under starter’s orders. But I know that he fully supports the Bill as it stands.

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Addington, but I think he painted a gloomy picture of the real situation. I thought it was a little negative. If we go back to the consultation exercise and look at the question on the mix of registered farriers to lay persons, 67% of the respondents thought that the current mix was right. On another question, 67% of respondents thought that the chairman should continue to be appointed by the WCF. The Government agreed that initially and said that the status quo must remain, but they have moved significantly. I think that they are probably right to have done so; they have shown a willingness to listen.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, for supporting the Bill. It is quite right that such a Bill should go out of this House with unanimous support, as a message to all. To my noble friend the Minister, I thank him for his support and time. He was absolutely right to say no foot, no horse—and don’t I know how difficult it is to get shod when one has poor feet. I can at least say that my feet hurt, but the poor horse cannot. Therefore, we rely very much on the skills of the farriers, to which the noble Lord, Lord Addington, drew our attention.

This Bill does not need any more rasping. I believe that we can clinch it and get it well shod. I wish all noble Lords a very happy Easter and thank the Government for making time for this Bill. I beg to move.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Brexit: Environment and Climate Change

Earl of Caithness Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, and his committee for this report, but I would add how disappointed I am at the timing of this debate. We had a debate in October on exactly this subject and not much has changed since then. I am sure that the assurances that the Minister gave at that time have been implemented within the department, but I suggest that what we needed before we had this debate was the Government’s 25-year plans. Those would have given us an idea and a focus for this debate, because there has not been much that is new over the last six months on which we can hang our hats. On those 25-year plans, I commend the speech of my noble friend Lady Byford. She is absolutely right that you cannot separate the environment and farming. Those two 25-year reports have to mesh into one report for the whole of our environment.

I agree with much of what the committee says. It will be difficult to transfer all the legislation from EU into UK law. It will be by no means impossible, although it may very well take longer than we thought. I agree with it on the enforcement of the environmental order that is mentioned in paragraph 85. It is right to suggest that there should be some sort of independent body as there is in Europe now; that would be very helpful. I agree that environmental pollution is no respecter of national boundaries, but that argues that we should be working at the world level and not an EU level—there is nothing to stop the pollution coming over the EU national boundary. We are members of certain world organisations and we have a very important role to play in the future of that. On air quality, we have been far too slow. It is a subject that I suggested the committee should write a report on some six years ago when I was a member. However, I was overruled, and we did another worthwhile report instead.

On the other hand, I cannot given unanimous backing to the report. We have been in the EU for so long that we think it is the holy grail of environmental legislation. When the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, introduced the debate, he said that there are difficulties and opportunities. However, the opportunities outlined in the report are as scarce as teeth on hens. It is a very negative report and, having read it, I came away very gloomy thinking that things are really bad.

I voted to remain in the EU, and one of the reasons for that was the environment. But then I asked myself how we managed when we were outside the EU, and started to look at what we have done. There is the Public Health Act 1845. That was to do with the environment and predates the formation of Germany and Italy as national states. We have been at this for a very long time, as the Acts of 1866, 1875 and 1936 show. In 1907, we set up the National Trust without the help of the EU. The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, in her speech mentioned how important the habitats directive is. But in 1949, even before the European Coal and Steel Community, this House passed the National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act. In 2015, we created the world’s largest marine nature reserve in Pitcairn—without the help of the EU. Yes, we can do it by ourselves; we did do it by ourselves; and I have no doubt that life will be pretty good in the future.

Let me use a personal experience to make a point. In 1988-89, when I was Minister for the Environment, I was very involved with work on the ozone layer. It was British scientific advice from the Antarctic Survey that convinced Mrs Thatcher that something ought to be done for the ozone layer. She was very good with the environment because she acted on scientific advice. She said to Nicholas Ridley and me, “This is so important, we have to have a world conference”. So we organised a world conference in 1989, and we did that without the help of the EU, but the EU clung on to our coat-tails and came trundling along very rapidly behind. Just before we had the conference, the EU voted unanimously to phase out CFCs, not 100%, by 2000. We had a very successful London conference: 20 countries signed up to the Montreal Protocol and a further 14, including China, committed to sign up. What did the European Commission do? It decided to bring forward the date that we had just agreed, from 2000 to 1996. Mrs Thatcher gave exactly the right answer: it depends on innovation in science and the ability of industries to create the alternatives.

That proved one thing to me: it is terribly easy for countries in the EU to sign up to resolutions and directives when they have no industries that are going to be involved. As a developed, industrial country, we did have difficulties. It also proved to me that much of what the European legislation was about was emotion and capturing the public mood, rather than proper scientific innovation. That has not changed; it remains the situation. The impact on the environment and how we handle it is not down to some European regulation but to innovation, trade and planning rules. When we are outside the EU, we will be able to move much faster in those areas. I commend the previous debate today on science. We have to look forward and seize these opportunities, and Britain can be very good at that.

In 2000, the EU announced that its Lisbon strategy would make the EU the world’s most advanced knowledge-based economy by 2010. What a load of rubbish. It has totally failed to do that. It is a sadness that the EU, far from being the leader and the important world player it was 20 years ago—when 30% of the world’s economy was transacted in the EU; it is down to 15% now—has become a drag because it does not innovate and cannot respond quickly.

I could wax lyrical about that, but I shall move on quickly to two other matters. As the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said, the environment is international, national and local. I firmly believe that the environment is best protected at local level. If local people are involved in their environment, they will help look after it, especially farmers and people who live in the countryside. However, if you take away that responsibility for the environment and give it to a third party in a different country, the incentive to look after your home patch is diminished. We are lucky. We are an island nation and all our rivers are in our own country and we cannot blame pollution on anyone else. Unlike Holland, we cannot say that the pollution comes from Germany or, in the case of the Danube, that it comes from another country. We have responsibility for our own rivers, water catchment areas and water pollution, so let us do it ourselves.

I conclude with the issue of money. The environment comes down to money. The report refers to resources and how much we depend on Europe. Is that accurate? No. When we leave, the EU budget will be cut by 12%, so what will happen to some of this EU funding? The noble Lord, Lord Krebs, is right that no one country can fund a lot of this itself. When you take 12% out of the EU budget, many of its programmes will have to be massively cut and the incentive for it to work with Britain, with its financial strength, will be hugely increased. The EU will need our expertise in science and our funds in order to maintain its own programmes.

Who will win with Brexit? Both the EU and Britain will be losers to one extent, but it is far from all gloom for us.

Farming: Impact of Brexit

Earl of Caithness Excerpts

Thursday 21st July 2016 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Caithness (Con)]

My Lords, I, too, congratulate my noble friend on his promotion to full Minister for Defra rather than spokesman, and I hope all this praise does not kill his career. It has been known to kill Ministers in the past; I hope it does not kill him.

It is lovely to be able to discuss farming for the second time in two weeks, and I congratulate my noble friend on putting down this debate. In the last two weeks I hope the Minister has been in full cry to pursue a joined-up strategy for farming, fisheries, forestry, food and the environment. As the noble Baroness said, there has to be a comprehensive policy. We know, from the debate two weeks ago and from what noble Lords have already said, that what the Government, farmers and the public want are often three different things. Those are big fences that my noble friend needs to jump to pull that policy together. I hope that he, like me, believes that with the correct support, UK agriculture can be a world leader in showing that environmentally positive farming with high welfare standards on the livestock side can be sustainable and deliver products that the market wants and needs.

However, to do that it needs to consult widely. During our last debate I asked about the devolved institutions, and the Minister in his reply talked about the devolved Administrations. I need to press him a bit more on that. I hope that he will talk to all the devolved institutions, not only to the devolved Administrations, and that he will whip in the country organisations that have farming to their fore, such as the CLA and NFU, just as much as the Wildlife Trusts and the RSPB. They all ought to be brought together to get the right policy.

That policy needs to be based on three things. First, it needs to be based on minimal and efficient regulation. I recall the days of MAFF, whose reputation for gold-plating regulation was not the best. The Minister will need to be firm with his civil servants so they do not go down the old road of MAFF, as that would sound the death knell of much of the policy that I am sure he and I would like to see.

Secondly, the farming strategy needs to be based on agricultural research, which I did not mention two weeks ago because other noble Lords did. Here I am concerned about our links with other European institutions. Already the universities are saying that contracts are being lost. One university has been advised that it should not join in with other EU universities because it would jeopardise their chances of getting money from the EU. Diseases such as bluetongue and others that are entering our forestry do not care a hoot about national borders. Therefore, we need to be absolutely certain that we can work with the other institutions throughout Europe on a basis that is productive for all. I am slightly worried about this because one of President Juncker’s first acts when he took up office was to sack the chief scientist, Anne Glover—she was unseated pretty quickly—and that was not a very good sign.

The third thing that Defra needs in sorting this out is the correct staff. This is hugely important. I am concerned that some of the best people in Defra will be poached for the Brexit office. Can my noble friend tell me whether any Defra staff have been taken to that office? If they have, and as the former Prime Minister said that the very best would be taken, what is the Minister doing to replace them? Is he contracting in experts from the private sector not only to fill the gaps but to help balance the policy that will be created? No other industry has to write a new policy on a blank sheet of paper. We have not had a farming policy of our own for over 40 years. It is a huge challenge for my noble friend. I know that we all wish him the very best of luck in turning it into a strategy that is acceptable to every part of the United Kingdom and to all who participate in it.