Members’ Paid Directorships and Consultancies

Dominic Raab Excerpts

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[Ms Eagle]

I have given way a lot, so I will not.

The Deputy Prime Minister said earlier today:

“The principle is if you are devoting yourself to public service, that is what you should do…I don't think anyone finds it acceptable…people regard politics as nothing more than a part-time hobby.”

He went on to say that

“the principle should be you are elected to do a job, that is your vocation, that is your act of public service, that is what you should be doing for your constituents”.

Well, I agree, and it is not often that I agree with the Deputy Prime Minister. In the light of that comment, perhaps he will confirm that he and his colleagues will join us in the Lobby tonight. If they do, we can really begin to make progress.

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Ms Eagle]

No, I am right at the end of my speech and I have given way a lot.

The choice is clear. Are we here to serve our constituents or are we here to serve our own self-interest? Are were going to change a broken system or are we going to ignore the public’s clamour for reform? After the election, no Labour MP will have a paid directorship or consultancy, and Labour’s manifesto will include a promise to ensure that that applies to all MPs. Wider reform is now being rejected because the Conservatives are the defenders of a tired and discredited status quo. To reform our politics, we need to stand up to vested interests, not cosy up to them. We need to stand up for the powerless, not the powerful. And we need to accept that sometimes in this place, things need to change. That time has come.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hague]

Yes, it was correct. It is not for me to say whether it was funny; others will be the judge. I was making a point about the Opposition motion. If such a motion is so easy to make fun of, it may not have much chance of being a serious policy. The public would not find it funny if we adopted rules that could not be enforced, were confusing or damaged the future of Parliament, which is the central point.

[Mr Raab]

rose—

[Mr Hague]

Let me give way to my hon. Friend. This will have to be the last intervention.

[Mr Raab]

I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. My interests all relate to writing columns for newspapers and suing one of them.

Is it my right hon. Friend’s view that the definition of consultancies would include drawing a six-figure salary for being a BBC guest presenter? It would, first, relate to public money; and secondly, hardly draw in outside experience from beyond the Westminster bubble.

[Mr Hague]

Whether that would come under the definition of consultancy is another interesting question for the Opposition to consider. They have to define such things if they are to present their policy more clearly. I hope that they will be able to do so the next time they present it.

The final revealing point about the Opposition motion is that it talks about some forms of outside income, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames) has just said, it does not address the direct influence on Members of trade union sponsorship and support at elections and between elections. If the Labour party gains more seats at the coming election, it will have to address that issue at the beginning of the next Parliament. For the 106 target seats it has named, it has selected 105 candidates, of whom 83 are union linked, including 49 who are linked to Unite. It is by far the greatest single outside influence on Members of Parliament —securing their selection as candidates, supporting their election as MPs, paying for their election, dictating the policies of their party—yet they are breathtakingly silent on that issue. We would not enhance the reputation of Parliament by adopting a motion put forward in a hurry to grab a headline, but which does not address that fundamentally important issue about our Parliament and democracy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tessa Munt]

No. I disagree. I will talk about what I know, and I know about being an MP, and that is exactly what I can talk about. I am not qualified to talk about the other things. There are clearly restrictions in various other cases, but what we have brought to the House today is a discussion about whether people should hold paid directorships or consultancies. I have to say that I do not think the motion goes far enough, but that is because that there are many other forms of employment. People are employees, they are on contracts, they are agency workers, they are partners, they are office holders, they are barristers and advocates and police officers and members of the clergy. I accept that there are all sorts of exceptions. We should consider these matters carefully.

I am entirely prepared to listen to what might be thought to be a way forward, but I have made a pledge, and I think that it is a privilege and an honour to do my job. There is no job description, and it may be time for us to discuss what one should expect, but the fact remains that I pledge my time to those who elect me and those who do not, and this will be my one and only job.

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend is advancing an interesting argument. If we followed the principle to its logical conclusion, would it lead to a ban on Liberal Democrat MPs taking jobs as Ministers, in coalition or otherwise?

[Tessa Munt]

That is an utterly ludicrous suggestion. As my hon. Friend probably knows, for three years I was the Business Secretary’s Parliamentary Private Secretary. That was a promotion. It was something within my job. It was something that I did between Monday, when I arrived at the House, and Thursday, when I went back to my constituency.

My staff have calculated that in most weeks I probably work for more than 100 hours, but this is a vocation, so I do not complain about it. That is the way it is, and that is the way I choose it to be. It is absolutely fine to gain promotion in the Government, but we do not need to have a job outside this place to enhance our expertise inside it. I think it completely unreasonable that people should have such vast earnings and such a vast amount of time.

I recognise that I may have a slightly extreme view on this issue, but I do not care, because it is what I believe.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Lee]

I am not so sure about that. I am certainly qualified with regard to the regional health care settlement, of which I have had a lot to say in the Thames Valley. The fact that I have up-to-date understanding of what is happening in the local health care economy makes me a more effective representative for my constituents.

Just as an aside, no one has talked about hours. As a junior doctor, I have done weeks of 100 hours or more—it is pretty harsh when that happens—so I know all about working hard. For most people, 40 hours a week is what they call their full-time job. I suspect that most people in this House do more than that on politics. I know that my family and friends think that I have aged quite markedly in the past four and a half years while doing this role. At no time has the fact that I have done additional work in medical practice impacted on my ability to be a politician. In fact, I think it has improved it.

The reason why trust matters—it matters for all parties—is that it is only with trust that we get to govern effectively. When I look at the challenges we face, I see ageing; I see Britain’s role in the world diminishing because we do not know what it should be. I think to myself that this country needs good government, of whatever political persuasion—

[Mr Raab]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful point about the range of experience that we need. Is not the pernicious thing about this motion the fact that it singles out one particular area, which is business experience, and that is automatically barred?

[Dr Lee]

My hon. Friend is right. To go back to my original comment—[Interruption.] The clock has not been changed, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Interruption.] What am I to do here?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con)]

The English Romantic poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge said:

“In politics, what begins in fear…ends in folly.”

My fear is that in this debate—not just the debate in the House today, but more generally—that is where we will end up.

The motion is obviously flawed. Why exclude just business consultancies and directorships? Why exclude that one area of experience from outside this place? It is very important to have business experience in the House of Commons, whether in considering issues of business red tape, business taxation, jobs growth or even the minimum wage, which is very close to the hearts of Opposition Members. There is the whole issue of whether increasing the minimum wage would result in more unemployment. They take that very seriously, but it is a subject on which we want to hear from employers and people with experience of running or taking part in businesses. We need this place to have experience from a whole range of outside professions and sectors. Why should business be excluded?

If this debate was really about the amount MPs earn outside that role, we could have a cap at the amount earned for a Government job. A Government job is of course a second job, and it is ludicrous to keep up the farcical pretence that it is anything else. If the debate was about hours, they are already declared in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. If it was really about lobbying, we could have a sensible debate. For example, it would be reasonable to place a bar on an MP lobbying the Government for a business from which they draw an income. That would deal with the point about the conflict of interests. However, we have no such focused, sensible debate; the motion seems to be about political point scoring.

I want to talk about some of the stepping-stones to rebuilding trust in politics and in Parliament. There is no silver bullet, but I would like more open primaries—I was selected by open primary, which had a huge impact on me—which make it easier for people with experience from outside politics to come into Parliament.

[Dr Phillip Lee]

My hon. Friend and I share the experience of open primaries. It struck me that the majority of the people in the room at my open primary—half of them were not Conservative members—just wanted a really good Member of Parliament, who had integrity, a sense of honour and a sense of duty, and wanted to serve the constituency. They were very happy that I had an outside job, because they wanted someone with experience of the real world. Did he have the same experience?

[Mr Raab]

I had exactly the same experience. Of course, in an open primary, the community can ask someone specifically how they would do the job.

We should attract the brightest, the best and the most talented people to this place. It is no good referring to the median wage, or to what people earn on average. I understand why that is attractive and alluring in a superficial political way, but this place should be a cradle of democracy that attracts people with huge expertise and experience.

I would like MPs to be paid at a similar level to a secondary head teacher, an assistant chief constable or a partner in a GPs’ surgery. I would not increase our salary, or accept an increase, at a time when we are imposing a freeze or a 1% cap on the rest of the public sector, but MPs’ pay does need to be readdressed or reset to make sure that this place has the expertise and experience to do its job. We should cut the number of MPs; that would be another important stepping stone. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) about the right of recall, which would be not a panacea, but a stepping-stone.

Above all, Parliament needs to be a bulwark against the Executive. It needs to ventilate debate and give voice to the convictions of MPs as the representatives of their constituents. I would like members of Public Bill Committees to be elected in the same way as those of Select Committees, and I would like Parliament to control its own business. Those sensible things would help to restore public trust in politics.

It is possible to restore public trust in politics. Ipsos MORI has shown that mistrust of politicians sank to its lowest level in 2009, but crept back up 5 percentage points since, before dipping again. That shows that the public respond to what we do, how we hold ourselves and the job we do. If we want to restore public trust, it must be done in a sensible way, not by scoring cheap political points, as in the motion.