Developing Countries: Jobs and Livelihoods

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 15th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Department for International Development (Sir Desmond Swayne)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain), and I thank him for his kind words. He referred to my passion, but it is clear that his passion equals, if not exceeds, mine, as does that of the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott). I sometimes imagine that we disagree less than we think, but what is clear is that we all share the same objective and the same passion.

Today we have debated a very important, game-changing report. Since that report, we have been pushed in a direction that we were very keen to head in in the first place. We have created a new directorate for economic development by combining five separate departments. We have created a new youth and education department to focus on the transition from school to work, and to drive that focus through all the bilateral relationships and all our programmes. We have implemented a new growth diagnostic. This is the focus that my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) demanded there be in every bilateral relationship and every programme. The diagnostic informs every team of the barriers to growth in the countries in which they are working, so that they can devise programmes with the greatest impact on growth. My hon. Friend referred to the new agricultural strategy; it is, as he demanded, focused on smallholder agriculture. We will shortly publish—after we have disposed of that business on 23 June—our new economic development strategy.

The delivery of this agenda is vital to all the global sustainable development goals across the entire piece, and not just to the most obvious ones—1, 8 and 9. We will not see a reduction in world poverty of the order that we want unless we get a great increase in inclusive growth. In the past, we have had growth that has not generated inclusivity or sufficient jobs. It is vital that we get inclusive growth, because as we have heard so often this morning, we need 600 million new jobs in the next decade; otherwise, we will have a growing army of underemployed, frustrated and increasingly angry young people. As we have heard again this morning, lack of economic opportunity, a job and a livelihood is the principal driver of migration. That has been going on for decades. Millions of people have dropped everything that they have known and moved from their homes to the unknown in pursuit of economic activity. We are beginning to notice it as we see that tide of humanity coming up from south-Saharan Africa. Nevertheless, that driver has existed for decades, and we have to address it by providing those jobs.

I accept that not any job will do. It is no good having jobs that enslave. That is why we are still concentrating our programmes on work and freedom. There is what we are doing with the International Labour Organisation in Bangladesh, and there is the ethical trading initiative and the responsible, accountable and transparent enterprise initiative. Those are vital, but in the end it all comes down to jobs. The Government have an important role in that regard. My hon. Friend referred to the importance of public services. Yes, public services are important; there are important jobs and roles in public services. It is precisely for that reason that we take—and manage—the very considerable risks of working through Government-provided services in places such as Nepal, where our healthcare programme is channelled through Government provision, although it is a corrupt environment.

I share the passion of the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) for tackling corruption. He is absolutely right, and that is why our programme on governance under SDG 16 is so important to our economic development programme. It is precisely for that reason that we held the anti-corruption summit and, the day before, the summit to engage with civil society on how it deals with that. As I say, the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: where elites hijack the lucrative parts of the economy and wreck it, that impoverishes everyone. When a person gets an important job in the Government or the civil service because they are someone’s cousin, rather than capable of carrying out that function, that leads to complete inefficiency.

Over and over again, we find Governments getting in the way of the creation of jobs, through unwillingness or lack of capacity to raise revenue to invest in the necessary infrastructure; a lack of regulation, or over-regulation; or a lack of contract law or any other law, or of the rule of law. All those things drive away investment.

The real engine of job creation is private sector-led investment. One of the principal barriers to that investment thriving is the lack of necessary infrastructure. A reduction in productivity of some 40% throughout Africa and Asia is accounted for by the lack of necessary infrastructure, and it is estimated that Africa suffers a vital reduction of 2.1% in its annual growth rate as a consequence of the lack of necessary infrastructure.

Some 1 billion people have no access to electricity, and 1.3 billion live nowhere near a road. We must address those infrastructure problems. There is an annual deficit of some $3 trillion a year, in terms of the infrastructure that we need to invest in. Most of that must be provided by Governments. Grant aid will remain important for filling about half of that infrastructure gap, but all investors will need to increase their ability to invest massively if we are to do that. That is why we are working with the World Bank and the regional development banks.

We are working on projects on hydroelectricity in Nepal and power sector reform and roads in Nigeria. We have launched Energy Africa, working in 14 sub-Saharan African countries to address the needs of 600 million people who are without electricity. Although we only launched the campaign last year, we have proved the root; we kick-started the campaign with the work that we did with M-KOPA, which has put in place some 300,000 solar panels that serve 1 million people. It has also used highly innovative methods, so that power can be paid for using pay-as-you-go mobile phones.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

Where we have been relatively slow in moving to meet the infrastructure needs of Africa, the Chinese have moved relatively rapidly. Does he agree that that is not entirely unproblematic, because the Chinese do not share our commitment to human rights?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 4th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swayne]

My right hon. Friend is right. The common reporting standard is vital, together with the automatic exchange of taxpayer account information. Precisely because of that, we have a pilot running in Ghana to draw developing countries into that arrangement.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that tax avoidance in developing countries costs them three times what they get in aid. Why will the Department not put pressure on Government colleagues to insist that offshore centres such as the British Virgin Islands and the Cayman Islands set up registers of beneficial ownership that are open to the public?

[Mr Swayne]

We are vastly in advance of the situation left by previous Administrations, and we are advancing by agreement. That information will be available if countries sign up to the initiative for the automatic exchange of beneficial ownership registers, and next month the United Kingdom will be the first country to publish that information.

HIV: Women and Girls

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Westminster Hall

[Mr Swayne]

I hope that I will be given the chance to get there, and that my statement today will be regarded as something of an explicit statement in lieu of what Members have not been able to find on the website, but that is a question we might come back to.

As I was saying, this has to be our main effort if we are going to have any prospect of getting to zero: to zero new cases, zero deaths and, as the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington and my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant) pointed out so importantly, to zero stigma and discrimination—a vital part of the equation.

How are we going to achieve that? I believe that the proper principle is to deploy our resources where the need is greatest, where the burden is greatest and where the resources are fewest. I have to reassure my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green in respect of his perfectly proper concern about middle-income status countries. The reality is that the Global Fund deploys half its resources in middle-income countries and specifically has programmes to deal with neglected, vulnerable populations in high middle-income countries. We have given £9 million to the Robert Carr fund specifically to address some of those issues.

I put it to hon. Members that as countries develop and become wealthier—I accept entirely that, as the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) pointed out, there is a question of what defines a middle-income country, and there is a wide spread—there has to be an expectation and a challenge to them to start deploying more of their resources to deal with the problems of healthcare and AIDS in particular. It is very much part of the Addis agenda that countries deploy their own resources, and part of the challenge to us and to the Global Fund is to hold them to account for doing so.

My hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green was right to challenge me on the issue of research and development. I do have concerns, but we are the leading investor in product development partnerships, which delink the market incentives for research and development and replace them with the prioritisation of public health objectives. Some 11 new products are now on the market in low-income countries as a consequence of the partnerships that we have developed. In addition, we have invested. We are the fifth largest funder of UNITAID and have put €60 million into its programme for developing diagnostics and treatments. Indeed, there is also its groundbreaking development in the treatment of paediatrics, with some 750,000 treatment regimes for children.

[Ms Abbott]

I agree with the Minister that as countries get wealthier, in principle they should take responsibility for their own HIV/AIDS programmes. However, when there are allegedly middle-income countries that are members of the Commonwealth but which, to all intents and purposes, are going backwards on LGBT rights, does Her Majesty’s Government not have a responsibility to intervene with the type of projects that would make it easier to access marginalised communities?

[Mr Swayne]

I accept entirely that there is a challenge to all the developed world and all right-thinking countries to hold those regimes to account for their treatment of human rights and respect for human rights. Nobody should be left behind—that is the principle that we have to abide by—and we must find programmes and measures to deal with that. I accept that the hon. Lady is right on this issue.

On the issue of research and development, we are alive to this problem, but let us consider it a work in progress. I accept entirely that there are still problems, but I am glad that the World Health Organisation is now implementing what it calls an observatory on research and development, and that a working group will be set up to drive the matter forward.

The issue of condoms was raised by the hon. Lady and by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I am very much in favour of the distribution of high-quality male and female condoms. What is more, I want to see much wider distribution of the benefits of microbicides, which were raised by the hon. Member for Glasgow North with respect to the rings and gels that are being used and in which we have invested some £20 million. I believe that that is essential.

The hon. Member for Strangford raised a key point—I think his words were that AIDS is being used as “a weapon of war.” He is right about that, and I want to see reproductive and sexual health as a key part of our response to any humanitarian emergency.

Of course, I want to see a successful replenishment of the Global Fund. That is essential—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Glasgow North is signalling that he wants a commitment to be made now, but I am going to have to disappoint hon. Members over a figure and commitment now. That has to be left to the Secretary of State and it can only be done once the bilateral aid review and the multilateral aid review have been published. However, I am impressed by the way in which the Global Fund has attempted to address our preoccupation with women and girls and to make its response to women and girls central to its strategy. We now want to see how that changes things on the ground, because women’s needs are highly complex and our response has to be correspondingly comprehensive.

My hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders Green asked me on a number of occasions how we were going to address the needs of women and girls, and it is a response that goes well beyond what we can do specifically to address the issue of AIDS. It is a question of changing culture and of changing law. It is a question of changing the perception of human rights. It is a question of changing economic development and of giving women the power to protect themselves. It is about empowering women and giving them information and access to family planning services. It is about giving them an education and a livelihood. All these things will empower women to ensure that they are enabled to negotiate the terms under which sexual intercourse takes place. However, I tell my hon. Friend this: a world free of AIDS—one in which absolutely no one is left behind—is one in which the rights of a girl are promoted and protected from the minute she is born.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swayne]

As the Prime Minister pointed out, we have the most stringent and robust arms export regulations in the world. We have supported the UN Human Rights Council resolution, and we are committed to the investigation of every abuse or abrogation of international law.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware that Saferworld, Oxfam, UNICEF, and Save the Children take the position that DFID’s work in Yemen is being undermined by UK arms sales. How can the Minister continue to insist that a UK-replenished Saudi arsenal being dropped on Yemen is not an impediment to development?

[Mr Swayne]

As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant), the undermining of our ability to deliver aid is a consequence of warfare. That warfare arises because of the violent removal of the lawful Government of Yemen, not because we have sold arms to the Saudis.

Draft International Fund for Agricultural Development (Tenth Replenishment) Order 2015

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Thursday 19th November 2015 General Committees

[Mr Swayne]

I thank the hon. Lady for her support for the order. I take her concerns seriously and share a number of them. She began by applauding the 72% share of borrowers. I hope that I did not mislead her, but it is the savers of whom 72% are accounted for by women. I hope that the 7th Cavalry to my left will shortly supply the figure for the number of female borrowers, but I am not convinced that it will happen in time.

[Ms Abbott]

I should of course have realised that women, more than any other group in the community, recognise that it is better to save than to borrow.

[Mr Swayne]

The hon. Lady is quite right, because they are so often faced more fundamentally with the consequences of borrowing and not having saved sufficiently. They are much more on the frontline, particularly in agriculture. I found striking the number of female-led households and smallholdings in which they are actually the farmer.

On the fear of the diversion of aid, I remain absolutely comfortable with the focus we have placed on the national interest. I am conscious that a majority of my constituents, many perhaps readers of the Daily Mail, disapprove somewhat of international development aid. When they are confronted with a disaster, however, they put their hands deep into their pockets. They thoroughly appreciate the action that the Department for International Development and the Government take on their behalf, and they add their own money. They have less understanding and information about the continual need for international development expenditure to build resilience —if they had, they would support it—so that countries can actually survive disasters in the way that Nepal did. One way that I want to try to engage the public is by persuading and showing them that reducing poverty is in our national interest. Hence the focus that we have placed on international development in the national interest. It is a way of persuading the public.

[Ms Abbott]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. As he says, the British public are extraordinarily generous, among the most generous in Europe, when it comes to humanitarian disasters, but my point was that the public, whether his constituents or mine, are much more positive about aid and development when they can see concrete outcomes, such as a clinic, helping female agriculturists, or malaria nets. When they see international aid being spent on consultants, budgetary support or other such intangible things, they worry that the money might be being diverted.

[Mr Swayne]

I entirely agree with the hon. Lady. That is why we are so concerned to see tangible results from our expenditure. We believe that we are one of the most transparent aid organisations in the world. We have the development tracker and our website provides the results of all the projects that we have invested in. That has to be our main effort for exactly the reason that she has set out. She said that there was a concern that multilaterals might be less stringent at tracing funds and making clear where money is going. I share her concern.

We are currently working through the multilateral aid review, in which we closely examine the fit with all our international partners to ensure that their view of the development agenda fits with ours; that they share our focus on women and girls, on climate change and on economic development; and, equally, that they meet the standards we require on transparency. I hope that we continue with a consensual approach to international development. I am confident that we share the same aims, even if we might differ on some essentials. Nevertheless, I thank her for supporting this order.

We published our agricultural strategy at the beginning of this month, and it identifies three different types of economic situation among small farmers. A group at the top already have access to capital markets and to markets in which they can sell their products, and they are doing reasonably well. At the bottom, a number of people will need to get out of agriculture in the medium term and move to the towns—such progress in urbanisation will continue—to find a better job that can sustain their income. Our job as donors is to help them through that process, to provide support to ensure that they secure a livelihood and to protect them during that process, which is why we are working with the International Labour Organisation in south Asia through the work in freedom programme to protect people, particularly women, from being trafficked as they move from agriculture and rural villages into the industrial townscape.

In the middle, a much greater number of smallholders could, with a small amount of technical support, a little bit of capital or infrastructural development such as the provision of a road to help them get to markets, become much more productive and effective. The International Fund for Agricultural Development is critical in addressing that bulge in the middle and making farmers much more productive.

On the hon. Lady’s concerns about the transparency of the order, the International Fund for Agricultural Development maintains a stringent, independent assessment organisation to hold it to account, rather in the way that we are held to account by the Independent Commission for Aid Impact. The International Fund for Agricultural Development shares our zero tolerance of corruption.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Desmond Swayne and Diane Abbott

Wednesday 28th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Swayne]

My hon. Friend is quite right. This is the greatest humanitarian response that we have made to any emergency ever.

[Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) (Lab)]

There are terrible reports of the conditions in the Syrian refugee camps on Greek islands such as Lesbos, with no dry clothes, no shelter, no food, and children sleeping in bin bags, and conditions can only get worse as winter approaches. Are the Government really prepared to turn their back on people like these?

[Mr Swayne]

We have already done work, and are doing work, with the UNHCR and the Red Cross.