Whitsun Recess

Debate between Denis MacShane and Baroness Primarolo

Thursday 24th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

Does the hon. Gentleman know the German term “Kauft nicht bei Juden”? If he does not, he can look it up when he reads Hansard tomorrow. I was in South Africa, where the minority white Government behaved abominably. I could not meet a black friend in an hotel. I worked with the black trade unions there. I share many of the hon. Gentleman’s criticisms of Israel, but the last time I was there, I could meet Arab Israeli parliamentarians and Arab supreme court judges, and I saw Arab women and their families swimming alongside Jews in the sea off Tel Aviv. The apartheid comparison is there for one reason only: an apartheid state cannot exist; it has no right to exist. Those who call Israel—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. With respect, the right hon. Gentleman spoke for 20 minutes, and he knows full well that interventions must be brief. A lot of Members are still waiting to speak, and I will need to consider imposing a time limit if speeches do not get a little shorter.

European Union Bill

Debate between Denis MacShane and Baroness Primarolo

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

I will leave that point for my right hon. and hon. Friends on the Front Bench. I am not sure whether their new clause has been selected for debate today, but it proposes to set up a broad oversight committee, which might indeed be a rival to the Committee of the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash). I do not think that the proposal will make much progress, however.

The worry for me is that, at least among the majority party on the Government Benches, we have a Eurosceptic majority. We have to accept that. There are also many Eurosceptics on these Benches—[Interruption.]

[The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr MacShane, could you please turn your phone off? This is the second time that it has rung in the course of your contribution. While I am on my feet, may I ask you to refer to the amendments, and not to be tempted by interventions to reflect on anything that is not within them?

[Mr MacShane]

I apologise, Ms Primarolo. I thought that the phone was in silent mode, but it was not. I have learned something. At least my tie is sober and silent! I accept that interventions have dragged me here and there, but we are a friendly kind of House when it comes to European debates—to begin with, at least. I have been trying to sit down for about 10 minutes, but hon. Members just will not let me.

[The Second Deputy Chairman]

Perhaps I can help the right hon. Gentleman to sit down. Has he concluded his remarks? If not, he may continue, but he should not reflect on what I have said.

[Mr MacShane]

I was concluding my remarks until various Members got up to intervene.

My conclusion is simply this. There may come a time—not now, I accept—when a majority in this House and a duly elected Government feel that they want to take the lead to alter a European Union treaty—to propose a new one or make amendments to an existing one. They will then find that they are being held back by the tone, if not the strict legal content, of this Bill. This is coming dangerously close to what an Under-Secretary at the Foreign Office, Mr Henry Hopkinson, said about Cyprus in 1956—that it would “never” be free.

I genuinely worry about the signal we are sending to our EU partners at a time when we all, quite irrespective of our party political positions, need more co-operation and more enforcement in Europe, whether it be on Tunisia, on growth policies or on finding solutions to the problem in Ireland, where, as the Prime Minister rightly pointed out, we export three and a half times more British goods than we do to China. I worry greatly that this Bill, and particularly the new clause on the need for effective prosecution of criminality in Europe, will send out precisely the opposite signals. Our nation might well suffer, not tonight or in the next few weeks or months, but in the future, as a result of this deeply isolationist proposal.