The Climate Emergency

Debate between Deidre Brock and Alan Brown

Thursday 17th October 2019 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock]

Me, sarcastic? The very idea! I appreciate the cross-party nature of some of the talks in the Scottish Parliament—that is of course welcome—but at a time when the UK Government are suggesting putting up VAT on renewable technologies, including solar, wind, biomass and heat pumps, from 5% to 20%, I think there is still a lot more discussion to be had between the different parties.

[Alan Brown]

Does my hon. Friend agree that if there is such cross-party support, it is ridiculous and shameful that the previous Secretary of State for Scotland, the right hon. Member for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), continued to block onshore wind in Scotland? That is not cross-party consensus; that is affecting investment in Scotland.

[Deidre Brock]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. When it is still the cheapest of renewable energy technologies, it is shameful that onshore wind is excluded from competing for Government-supported contracts. I hope the Secretary of State is paying full attention to that point.

The United Nations climate action conference will be in Glasgow next year, and I understand that the Prime Minister wants to take a day trip to it for flag-waving purposes. May I advise him to take the train, not the plane, and to take the time to listen, rather than just bluster? He might even come away from it with some ideas to start implementing a plan to help with the problem that the world faces.

Perhaps the Whitehall mandarins could take a leaf out of Scotland’s books and work towards zero-carbon aviation. Scotland is decarbonising Highlands and Islands Airports and working with Norway on electric trains. We all know that transport is the second-biggest dumper of greenhouse gases, because we have all read the IPCC report. The same source tells us that, in fact, road transport is even more of a problem than air transport. Nearly three quarters of transport emissions are road-based, while around a 10th are accounted for by aviation. It is everyday transport that we have to address. Where is the UK Government initiative to copy the Scottish Government in supporting the roll-out of electric charging stations? Where is the parallel commitment to phase out the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the next dozen years?

The biggest greenhouse gas pest is electricity and heat production. Where are the incentives for renewable energy production? Not only are there no new incentives, but the old ones were taken away, and the costs of connecting Scotland’s vibrant and growing renewable energy producers to the grid are far too high. When will we see Government action to address those issues?

As the shadow Secretary of State asked, given that there is a climate emergency, to which the UK Government have finally admitted, where is the ban on fracking? This unconventional source of gas is banned in Scotland because there is no good case to be made for it. In some parts of England it is damaging people’s houses, impinging on their lives and possibly damaging their health. Get rid of it—it is a nuisance at best.

The Environment Bill, over which we will cast a jaundiced eye next week, seeks to embed in law the 25-year environment plan that was created under a previous Government. It was unambitious at the time, became rapidly outdated and is now a bit of a joke. Ministers should not withdraw it—we have wasted enough time already—but they should be prepared to make major changes to it during its progress through Parliament, and to accept amendments from others to make it something worth passing. I have a suggestion to offer that the Government and the Secretary of State can do relatively free of charge: why do they not invite the climate protesters into the room, ask them what they would put in the Bill, see whether they can get a bit of support in the House, and then pass something that is actually worth passing?

In closing, we all know that really doing something will not be easy. We know that it will entail changes in lifestyles that we have not yet properly considered. We can call it pain if we really must be dramatic about it, but if we do, we should at least compare it to the pain that comes from doing nothing. If not enough is done, some of the people who park their comfortable bahookies on these Benches might find themselves representing constituencies that start to disappear. Frankly, I do not expect the Government to make any real moves in the near future—if Brexit has taught us anything, it is that denial and delusion sit comfortably on the Government Benches—but I do hope that somewhere over on that side of the Chamber exists someone who will raise a questioning voice and ask whether it might be a good idea to do something. Who knows—there might even be a Thatcher fan who thinks that some action should be taken in her name. In the name of the wee man, though: it is a climate emergency, not a coffee morning. It is time to start acting like it is important. Talking is always good, but action is even better.

Environment and Climate Change

Debate between Deidre Brock and Alan Brown

Wednesday 1st May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock]

As the hon. Gentleman is probably aware, the Scottish Government have taken significant action on that issue, and I would very much like to see it taken across the UK as well. There is no place for fracking anywhere, in my opinion.

Roseanna Cunningham is now at the forefront of delivering on a programme to actually deliver on addressing climate change—an environmental policy that takes into account the needs of people and the need to hand on a working planet to future generations. She will tell us that she wants to do more, to deliver more and to solve all the problems and solve them now, but she knows, as do many who sit in this Chamber, that Government policy does not pivot so easily, and public attitude changes take time and effort to effect. That means that this needs the extra effort and extra attention that great changes usually need. We have to change the way we live—the way we conduct society. We have to be aware now that these changes will make life less comfortable. That is just how it is, though, and we should get on with it.

This is the one issue that might require us to put away the tools of political point-scoring and decide to work together for the survival of the species. We may not agree on the way forward, and we do not have to, but we can do that without losing sight of what we are driving at. The DEFRA Secretary—or Old Swampy, as I like to call him—and I can find ways to work together. I can offer him the benefit of vision that those of us who live in Scotland have of a Government working towards some serious and stretching targets to cut greenhouse gas emissions. We can chat about how the Scottish Government have put money into ensuring that there are enough charging points for electric vehicles to allow a target for phasing out petrol and diesel vehicles by 2032, and about funding electric buses and ultra low emission vehicles in the public fleet.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

On working together, I am not sure if my hon. Friend is aware that the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is apparently looking at allowing onshore wind in Scotland where the Scottish Government have embraced onshore wind, yet the Scottish Secretary has put in writing to BEIS his objection to Scotland getting access to onshore wind, and now the Departments are refusing to release that correspondence. Is that not disgraceful and the very opposite of working together?

[Deidre Brock]

I am indeed aware of that issue, and I do think it is disgraceful. I cannot see how the Secretary of State has a leg to stand on in this regard.

This needs ambition—not personal ambition, but political ambition and the desire to see future generations able to breathe on this planet. We need to challenge an old measure of Government success—the measure that says that the greatest good a Government can do is grow GDP—and start to measure success by how much the Government can do to ensure that there is a future where the sustainability of communities and the environment is a touchstone.

--- Later in debate ---

[Deidre Brock]

Absolutely. I would suggest something along the lines of the Scottish Government’s £12 million transition training fund, which was launched in 2016. The fund enables people who are in the oil and gas industry—about 240,000 jobs across the UK depend on it—to train and perhaps progress into the renewables industry. That is certainly something I would like to see.

[Alan Brown]

Further to that point, does my hon. Friend agree that the oil and gas industry could also be supported by implementing carbon capture and storage, which allows a low-carbon transition? That is where the UK Government are sadly lacking, having pulled the £1 billion funding. That is where we need to go, and it could make use of the decommissioned oilfields.

[Deidre Brock]

Absolutely. That is a crucial element. Unfortunately, as the National Audit Office told us, the two competitions on CCS were cancelled at a cost of some £140 million, and that needs to be looked at properly again. At the moment, there is a £20 million prize fund on CCS, but it is simply not sufficient.

This requires a change of Government—not a change of personnel; there is no point changing the hand on the rudder if the course is still towards the rocks—and a change in attitude, ambition and direction of travel. It requires change across every Department and every ministerial portfolio. It needs Government to engage with the people and civic society, and to drive this agenda forward. In spite of the couthie words often chuntered here about saving the planet, there has not been much evidence of action. This is one small corner of the world, and it cannot change global politics on its own, no matter what strange dreams Brexiters have. We have a duty and a moral obligation to do our bit to keep this world fit to hand on to the next generation, and it is about time we bucked up our ideas.

Rural Communities in Scotland: Broadband

Debate between Deidre Brock and Alan Brown

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. As the phrase goes, there are supposed to be three types of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics. I think we can add to that the parallel universe of the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont). His Tory grievances know no bounds, and we have heard the same things from Government Members. This is the week that he tried to politicise Poppyscotland, so the Tory grievances really do know no bounds.

The hon. Gentleman talked about stripping the Scottish Government of their powers and giving them to local authorities. I hope that he is aware that local authorities have been involved in the roll-out. I know from my time as a councillor that East Ayrshire Council was involved in discussions with Digital Scotland and the Scottish Government and put money in to achieve a target of higher than 95% in my area.

The hon. Gentleman blithely ignores the fact that the UK Government’s target of 95% superfast coverage for the UK was based on a pan-UK approach, which allowed the UK Government to set a target that was skewed towards England, where there is a greater population. Were it not for the Scottish Government’s investment, we would not even be close to the 95% target.

Broadband Delivery UK allocated £100 million for broadband in Scotland, but the Scottish Government and other local authorities have had to add £185 million—additional funding of 185%—to get to a 95% target for Scotland. To achieve the 95% target in England, additional funding of only 108% was required, which shows the disparity in approaches and the level of commitment to it in Scotland.

Scotland’s landmass is the equivalent of 60% of England’s landmass, so clearly the funding allocation should have been done on that basis alone, which would have meant a much higher funding allocation initially of close to £338 million, instead of the £100 million that was received from the UK Government. With more densely populated areas elsewhere in the UK, commercial roll-out was always going to be more attractive and hit those areas first. Scotland’s challenging geography has resulted in the requirement for 400 kilometres of subsea cables.

[Deidre Brock]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Scottish Government are clearing up the mess made by the UK Government and the absolute lack of ambition to connect Scotland that has been shown over several years?

[Alan Brown]

I wholeheartedly agree. This may surprise people but the Tory grievances know no bounds, as I said, and they do not know where the responsibility lies.

I hope the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk is aware of the issue with Scotland’s historical infrastructure. Scotland has a much higher proportion of exchange-only lines, which has resulted in different solutions having to be implemented, and those were back-ended as well. That accounts for some of the initial slowness of roll-out.

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is also well aware that rural Scotland suffers in mobile coverage, due to the licensing system in the UK and—again—a UK Government strategy that has overlooked rural Scotland. If we had good 4G coverage, at least that would mitigate the problems with broadband access in rural areas, but of course it is the rural areas of Scotland that are also subject to the notspots. The blame for that lies firmly with the UK Government.

It could all have been so different. The 3G auction in 2000 raised £22 billion for the Treasury, but that money was squandered. The 4G auction in 2013 raised nearly £2.5 billion. That money could have been invested in broadband and telecoms, but it was not, which again is a failure of UK Government policy. We could have had a new and complete fibre infrastructure roll-out instead of relying on 100-year-old copper to deliver our broadband services. There could have been a much better strategy, instead of the piecemeal approach that we now have.

It is the same with the universal service obligation. At least the hon. Gentleman was willing to admit that it should be a 30 megabits per second USO to meet customer demands and expectations, and at least the Scottish Government have shown ambition and are committed to delivering that by 2021.

I cannot pretend that there have not been issues with the roll-out of broadband. One issue has been managing expectations, as everybody wants broadband and wants it now. I agree that the Digital Scotland website, which allows postcode checking as well as live interaction and live updates, could have been rolled out in a much better way, to allow people to have a better understanding of when they are likely to get broadband. Also, individual delays in the roll-out have not always been reported accurately; the updates could be much better.

BT has not covered itself in glory either. Many of my constituents have been frustrated by the lack of progress, and I held a public meeting on broadband, to get stakeholders in front of the public and allow interaction with them. That event was well-received and gave people a better understanding of the problems. As an MP, I have personally intervened at times to seek resolution for different cabinet upgrades. I fight on behalf of my constituents as well, and I recognise that there have been some problems along the way.

Overall, however, there is definitely a good story to tell. If the Scottish Government and local authorities had not invested as much money, the consequences do not bear thinking about. We are also at the mercy of the commercial roll-out. Commercial companies are not even obliged to tell us if they have achieved 100% roll-out where they said they were going to do so, and under state aid rules public funds cannot be invested in those areas.

Additionally, pillar two money has been used to support the roll-out of rural broadband in Scotland. The UK Government have not committed to providing the same levels of funding post-Brexit, so I hope that the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk will bring that issue up with the UK Government. However, I note that he has refused to work with the SNP on the common agricultural policy convergence issue, which is also associated with the pillar two funding and overall European funding.

As has already been touched on, it is natural to leave the hardest areas until last, but I agree that that approach could perhaps be reviewed for future programmes, because it means that the same areas are always left behind. Again, the initial targets and initial allocations of money skewed the 95% target away from Scotland, leaving it to play catch-up.

It is also worth pointing out that of the 20 wards in the UK with the slowest broadband speeds, only one is in Scotland. Seven of the 10 slowest UK wards are in Wales, which has also suffered the same fate of having a devolved Administration that is overlooked by the UK Government. Also, in my time here in Parliament, many Tory MPs from the rest of the UK have complained about rural broadband access in their constituencies, so there is no point pretending that this is just a Scottish matter.

In conclusion, only the Scottish Government have committed to 100% superfast broadband by 2021. There might be some more frustrations along the way, but I am confident that only one Government will deliver on that superfast commitment for their country.

TV Licence Fee

Debate between Deidre Brock and Alan Brown

Monday 20th November 2017 Westminster Hall

[Alan Brown]

I do not pretend to speak for the entire public. I am expressing a view, but it is one shared by many other people. It might be a political view, but politicians clearly have different views, and there are always two sides to an argument. I recall Ian Davidson calling “Newsnight Scotland” “Newsnat” and having a pop at the then presenters. It could perhaps be said that when the BBC annoys those on both sides of an argument, it is doing its job. I am not saying that the entire public share my view, but it is shared by many people who have the same kind of political allegiances.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

With regard to the point made by the hon. Member for Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock (Bill Grant), in a study published by the UK Government around the time of the White Paper on the BBC, in 2016, Scots gave a score of 5.8 on general favourability towards the BBC, which was the lowest of any UK demographic.

[Alan Brown]

I thank my hon. Friend for that helpful intervention. It certainly makes the case and is a strong rebuttal to the previous intervention.

I am trying to reach a conclusion, which all hon. Members will be grateful for. As I said, I have highlighted many issues with the current TV licensing system and the operation of the BBC. I do have sympathy for those who have called for the scrapping of the TV licence, but I am also well aware that we need to be aware of the Trojan horse aspect of some of the other vested interests, such as the Murdoch empire. We certainly want to allow true public broadcasting services to be able to continue and thrive—I mean that sincerely—so to that end, I appreciate that the TV licence still serves a purpose. However, as I started by saying, reform of the enforcement process is required, and as per the recent observations of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport, the licence fee cannot continue indefinitely as a funding model for the BBC. Certainly a different model will be required at some point in the future.