Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 21st June 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Northern Ireland is a fantastic place to host international events. I am delighted that my hon. Friend shares my enthusiasm for driving forward prosperity in Northern Ireland. However, with tourism being devolved in Northern Ireland, I suggest that he engages with Tourism NI on this potential event, and I look forward to hearing how he gets on.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Q13. The UK Government and His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition refuse to face up to the bleak reality that Brexit is causing weaker growth and soaring inflation, according to the former Governor of the Bank of England. The LSE says that EU trade barriers have added, on average, £250 to household food bills, and Scots fishing chiefs are saying that they were sold down the river and scoff at the talk of treaty renegotiation as just spin. With such colossal failures stacking up and the former PM, who played a leading role in the leave campaign, finally exposed as a serial liar, will the current PM apologise to my constituents in Edinburgh North and Leith?

[The Prime Minister]

I just point out to the hon. Lady, as she is going on about the EU and us leaving it, that we have actually grown faster than France and Italy since we left the single market, our exports have grown by 25% just since covid and, as we heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox) earlier, every single international organisation has upgraded its forecast for UK economic growth. That is because we have the right priorities to drive growth, create jobs and spread opportunity in every part of our United Kingdom.

Northern Ireland: Political Process

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Monday 29th April 2019 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee again for his support. He and I had private conversations over the weekend, and it is good to know that there is support from all parts of the House for the activities that we are starting. There will come a time when it is right to talk in this House about the process and structure of the talks and the matters that they deal with, as well as about the issue of an independent chair. I hope that the hon. Member for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) will forgive me for not addressing that point earlier. I am pragmatic about doing this in the way that has the best chance of success, and I am open to all suggestions and thoughts on that matter, but today is the time to show our encouragement to the political leaders in Northern Ireland and tell them that we want to see power sharing resolved. I will be working with the parties over the next few days, and I would be very happy to come to either the Select Committee or this Chamber when we are further into the process to talk about the structure of the talks and the matters that are being discussed.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for giving me advance sight of her statement. I share the horror of so many people about the death of Lyra McKee and the events that led up to it, and about the deaths and injuries inflicted on so many people that have had less attention. I really welcome the Government’s acknowledgement of the clear message of the ordinary people of Northern Ireland, as voiced so eloquently by Father Magill. That message calls for politics and peace, rather than violence and aggression. I say to the Secretary of State, however, that that clear message was being delivered long before the recent violence; it has been a constant refrain in Northern Ireland. The people have been asking for this for many long years, but the politicians here and in Stormont have failed to heed those calls. We should of course recognise those who did not fail and who brought hope. Perhaps ironically, they were often old warhorses from opposing sides of the stand-off that was Northern Ireland politics for so long. We all want to see their successors match that achievement.

What are the Government doing to bring civic society into the talks? Surely the people of Northern Ireland who are not involved in party politics should be part of them. Further, will the UK Government make a commitment that nothing will be done, either in these talks or in other proceedings, that might call into question the Good Friday agreement, or the UK’s good faith in protecting it? Will the Government do whatever is necessary to avoid a hard border? Finally, the Secretary of State said that she would not give a running commentary, but while I appreciate the need for space for all the parties to discuss the issues, I must point out that that is almost exactly the wording used during the Brexit negotiations. It strikes me that, in that instance, we would have been in a better place had the Government done more sharing and listened to advice in this Chamber.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 6th March 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Despite the laughter, my hon. Friend has raised a very important issue. May I thank her for continuing to be a champion of our environment? She did an enormous amount of work that led to the Government ban on microbeads, and she is now raising the issue of microfibres. She mentions that Members across this House are seeking to reduce their use of plastic during Lent. I think that it is incumbent on all of us to seek to reduce our use of plastic, not just during Lent but for the time to come.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

Q7. As one of the Aussie MPs in this House, may I say how much I share your appreciation for Australian tennis players, Mr Speaker? I would add my personal favourite, Evonne Goolagong Cawley, who was such a brilliant inspiration to so many of us when I was growing up in Australia. For a year now, the Prime Minister has been refusing to answer my questions about the visit of AggregateIQ to Downing Street, so may I ask her about the visit of Alexander Nix of Cambridge Analytica to Downing Street in December 2016? It was reported in The Spectator “Coffee House” blog, but not in the transparency data. May I ask the Prime Minister whom Alexander Nix met in Downing Street, what the purpose of the meeting was and—most importantly—why it was not reported in the transparency data?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady has raised a specific issue with me, which I will look into, but she says we did not respond on the question about AggregateIQ. My hon. Friend the Minister for the Constitution has written to her about this and responded to her query.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 20th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

My right hon. Friend is very aware of and knowledgeable about the border, having been my predecessor in this role as Secretary of State. I can assure him that I have discussed with all political parties—both north and south of the border—the matter of the border and the practical ways in which we can overcome the problems that some people put forward as being an issue.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

The EU has been instrumental in helping Northern Ireland to address its legacy issues and in promoting economic development. What are the Stormont parties—or, indeed, the Government—saying needs to be done to address the deficiencies there once the UK leaves the EU?

[Karen Bradley]

Many people bear credit for the developments that have happened since the signing of the Belfast agreement and the economic development of Northern Ireland. I say gently to the hon. Lady that perhaps the fact that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom has more of a bearing on its economic strength than many other matters.

Supreme Court Ruling: Abortion in Northern Ireland

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Thursday 7th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

The Supreme Court judgment is as irritating as it is enlightening, with majority views holding sway, rather than unanimity. I note, however, that Lord Kerr, the former Lord Chief Justice of Northern Ireland, was one of the justices who considered that the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission had the right to bring the case and that the law was incompatible. Given his in-depth knowledge of the Northern Irish legal framework and the fact that the judgment points to the Criminal Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 1945 as the barrier to addressing that incompatibility, will the Government be taking the advice of the judgment and treating that Act as secondary legislation to be amended, or will they prepare the ground for a reinstated Assembly to repeal section 25 of that Act and bring the law into line with human rights?

[Karen Bradley]

As I said in my opening remarks, at 143 pages there is a lot to digest in this judgment. Together with my officials and lawyers, I will make sure that we have gone through every point of the judgment in order to make a final determination, but I think the hon. Lady would agree that where matters are devolved they should rightly be dealt with by the devolved legislature that has responsibility for them. That is why I want to see those politicians come back to Stormont, form that devolved Government and make those decisions.

Offences Against the Person Act 1861

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Tuesday 5th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

In the aftermath of the vote in Ireland, I saw a quote from a woman in Northern Ireland to the effect that she had the right to hold both UK and Irish passports and to be citizens of either or both, but she now did not have the right to choose that women in either jurisdiction have. That quote was third or fourth-hand by the time I saw it, but it seems to be an indicator of where many women in Northern Ireland find themselves. “Stranded” might be the best description of how they see their plight. Their plight is my plight, and their fight is my fight. If they suffer, I suffer, too. I stand with the women who feel themselves shorn of the rights they see across the border in Ireland and across the Irish sea.

I wonder, though, why this should be seen as an emergency debate. The referendum in Ireland did not change the conditions in Northern Ireland. Nothing has changed for women in Northern Ireland in terms of access to health services, except that they now have another geographically close comparison. Nothing has improved for them; nothing, happily, has got worse for them. Nothing has changed for them, more is the pity.

Yes, this is a very sensitive issue. Our sisters therefore deserve a little more consideration than a rushed debate. Who here, other than Members serving constituencies on the other side of the Irish sea, has any real perception of the issues and possible consequences surrounding abortion in Northern Ireland? I stand with my sisters in Northern Ireland, and I absolutely endorse their right to choose, but I do not claim to know their situation better than they do. I endorse their right to help shape the legislation they live under, but it is not for me or for anyone here to tell them how to do that. Support I can offer and encouragement I will give, but legislation has to be with the agreement of the people. Government is only with the consent of the people.

I hear those who say this is a human rights issue, and I agree. That is why we must leave the judgment on that in the hands of the Supreme Court, which has a duty to examine the reference from the Court of Appeal in Northern Ireland and will give guidance that must be followed. As we know, the judgment will be handed down on Thursday. We have two days to wait.

A little look at how Ireland approached amending its constitution would be instructive for many in this Chamber and, indeed, in the Chamber next door. Ireland’s move to allow abortion to be legislated for—that being the substance of the constitutional amendment, as has been pointed out—began with a citizens’ assembly. It was the people who had their hands on the tiller. This was no political campaign or activist-led agitation; this was people power from the start, and it should be a lesson to anyone who wants to effect major change. The details of the assembly are online at citizensassembly.ie, which I recommend to anyone who would like to think a little more about how nations should change direction.

As we have heard, Ireland is now free to choose whether to legislate to allow terminations, and I understand legislation is currently being drafted. Ireland does not yet have that law in place and, as the Secretary of State mentioned, the debate is just getting started. I note that the Taoiseach has indicated that allowing women from Northern Ireland to access such services across the border is being considered, and he points out that women from Northern Ireland regularly access other health services in Ireland and that there is no reason why they should be denied any new services.

We should not, however, think that Ireland’s legislation is done and dusted. The drafting is not yet complete, never mind its passage, but that legislative process is a matter for Ireland, for the Irish people and for the people they have elected to serve them. Likewise, the issue of abortion in Northern Ireland is a devolved matter and is an issue for the people of Northern Ireland and the people they elect to the Assembly. It is a matter devolved and, frankly, it matters not a jot whether the decisions made at Stormont, when it is sitting, are agreeable to Members sitting here. That is the point of devolution, a point that some Members of this place have been spectacularly slow to appreciate at times. The decisions of devolved Administrations are taken for reasons that people in those devolved nations understand from their point of view, and they are taken using evidence that the people, politicians and policy makers of those devolved nations consider important. That principle stands, and it can be seen in the way in which Scotland has led on public health issues.

[Stella Creasy]

In order to allow the residents of Northern Ireland to craft their own abortion laws, and so for that devolution process to be respected, will the hon. Lady be joining me and colleagues on both sides of the House in supporting the repeal of UK legislation that prevents Northern Ireland from doing this? Will she support the repeal of sections 58 and 59? It would be helpful if she were clear about that.

[Deidre Brock]

First, the Offences Against the Person Act does not apply in Scotland—some people seem not to be aware of that. Also, I understand that Stormont has been able to repeal sections 58 and 59 since 2010, and apparently it has chosen not to do so.

[Emma Little Pengelly]

What has been missed here today is that criminal justice is a devolved matter in Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland Assembly has full power to repeal this in due course, if that is the decision of the Northern Ireland Assembly, in line with the new regulations. The Offences Against the Person Act does not act as a barrier. This can be done by the Northern Ireland Assembly.

[Deidre Brock]

I thank the hon. Lady for her contribution. I would also point out that the Criminal Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 1945 still prevents abortion, with life imprisonment offered for those offering abortions. That is an added complication.

As we know, Stormont has not sat since January of last year, and I wish absolutely to condemn the cowardice of the politicians who cannot give enough ground, or cannot risk losing a little face, to get the show back on the road and start deciding on issues that affect the people they are paid to serve. I say that because this issue has been considered at Stormont; the need for legislation has been agreed at Stormont and a way forward has been laid out by a working group in Northern Ireland, as was mentioned by the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), who is no longer in her place. In a debate on the consideration of a justice Bill in February 2016, amendments were tabled that would have allowed abortions to take place in Northern Ireland in specific circumstances. Those were tighter than the conditions in place under the Abortion Act 1967, but they represented movement none the less. This followed a deal of public consultation undertaken by Ministers on the issues of fatal foetal abnormality, incest and rape. It is clear from what has been said today and from reading the transcript of that debate that there was not exactly a consensus that day, and the amendments were defeated—not overwhelmingly, but substantially.

One telling contribution that day was made by the then Member of the Legislative Assembly for South Belfast, who is now the Member for Belfast South in this place. In her speech that day, she said she was speaking on behalf of the Democratic Unionist party on the issue and she urged the Assembly to reject the amendments in favour of the DUP plan. She said:

“the DUP is rejecting the amendment but outlining a road map to a sensible, informed and appropriate way forward. The Minister of Health has been asked to establish, by the end of February, a working group that will include clinicians in this field and legally qualified persons to make recommendations on how this issue can be addressed, including, if necessary, bringing forward draft legislation. We have asked that all interested parties should be consulted and that the group will be tasked to report within six months. We all need to hear more fully the views of the Royal College and others. We all need the opportunity to ask those vital questions to get the appropriate advice. That is why the working group is the best and most appropriate way forward.”

That working group has now reported and as the DUP is behind it, it surely has enough impetus to clear the hurdles of political impasse in Northern Ireland.

The report recommended a relaxation of the restrictions on abortion, citing the general duty of the Department of Health under the Health and Personal Social Services (Northern Ireland) Order 1972 to secure improvement in the physical and mental health of people living in Northern Ireland. The report pointed out, however, that legislative change is required for that to be done. The report is clear that

“the current practice results in inequality of outcomes for women in this particular patient population group when compared to the standards for treatment and care afforded to other pregnant women by Health and Social Care as required by the Department of Health’s Maternity Strategy”.

It recommends changes in the law to allow abortions to take place.

The changes suggested would not go as far as the legislation here or in Scotland. Examining that was not the remit of the working group; it was examining only what legislative change was needed. The changes would not bring legislation into line with the rights and protections we have here and would not end women having the trauma of travel to a foreign jurisdiction for health treatment. The changes would not be the changes I would like, but they are the changes that the politicians of Stormont agreed to support. We have an obligation to respect the fact that the debate on abortion has not perhaps yet been won in Northern Ireland, but this small step can be taken while the debate continues.

Stormont should be reconvened and it should consider legislation on abortion, along with all the other responsibilities it has, but this is a devolved responsibility. Legislating here on a matter that is the responsibility of a devolved Administration is invidious, and the idea that Members sitting here can make decisions without any regard to the consequences is foolhardy. Stormont has not sat for far too long and that looks set to continue. It is a disgraceful abdication of responsibility on the part of elected Members. It is not sitting, but it has made this decision, and there is no reason why this place should not legislate to put that decision into effect. Stormont could always decide how to proceed when MLAs return to work.

Legislating here for abortion in Northern Ireland without the consent of the Northern Ireland legislature is not tenable, but consent has already been given for some change and we should implement that. We should press ahead and deliver that; a comprehensive review of the legislation can then proceed, with the people who would be affected front and centre. Too often, the rights of women are ignored and women are belittled. There is a moral obligation on the politicians of Northern Ireland to get back to work, engage with the people and move on. They can look to Dublin’s example for a way in which to start. There are decisions to be made, and hopefully they will lead to a full and proper health service for women, but I argue that that is not our decision. By all means we should legislate to put into effect the changes that have been decided, but we should not make decisions here that should more properly be made in Belfast.

I stand by the women of Northern Ireland and I stand with those who campaign for a full service, including a proper abortion service. They should be able to influence such decisions and have them made in their own legislature. Too often, the conceit is that this place knows best, but the re-imposition of direct rule on Northern Ireland is in no one’s best interests, let alone those of the women who need support and a decent health service. The DUP supports the change in the law that was agreed by Stormont; let us help it to deliver that change.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Northern Ireland (Regional Rates and Energy) Bill

Deidre Brock Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & 3rd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 21st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

I shall confine my remarks to the Bill.

Yesterday, we were doing here what should have been done in Stormont, and today, we are doing here what should have been done in Stormont. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Bill will not be the most exciting legislation passed in this Session, although I also suspect that politicians in Northern Ireland might regard the renewable heat incentive scheme as a little contentious here and there. The scheme has produced a lot of heat—a fair amount of it political heat—and I am sure it will not fade into nothingness just yet. It is almost tempting to submit an amendment to the tariff to get a bit of debate going and get some heat up—almost, but not quite.

As we are where we were yesterday, I shall be very brief. I reiterate what was said yesterday: these decisions should be taken at Stormont; decisions on devolved issues should be taken in a devolved legislature or by Ministers in the devolved Administrations, rather than here or in Whitehall; and Stormont politicians should get their collective act together and get back to work.

My comments on the rationale for the fast-tracking of this legislation should be taken as read as being the same as my comments on yesterday’s legislation, although I again accept that there should be no further delay. We knew this was coming and the Bill should have been prepared and started in good time for it to be considered properly.

This Bill and the Northern Ireland Assembly Members (Pay) Bill, which we will consider later, will pass serenely by, while we all watch with benign smiles. That is really not how legislation should be passed. My contribution today is short because this is something that we have to do, rather than a matter for policy debate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Deidre Brock Excerpts

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Karen Bradley]

There was no wilful ignoring or anything else. My predecessor consulted all the parties in Northern Ireland and there was broad support for July 2017.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

We know about one questionable donation that was channelled from Scotland through the Democratic Unionist party to be used in the Brexit referendum. People are rightly asking what the original source of that money was and whether there are others that we do not know about. If the Secretary of State will not consider revising the recent decision to limit transparency by taking it back to 2014, will she bring forward legislation to allow the individual parties to instruct the Electoral Commission to reveal their donation data?

[Karen Bradley]

As I have said, we are keen to ensure that there is transparency, but the question the hon. Lady asks is a matter for political parties themselves, not the Government.

Northern Ireland Assembly Members (Pay) Bill

Deidre Brock Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & 3rd reading: House of Commons
Wednesday 21st March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

This is a bit like déjà vu all over again.

We, too, accept the Secretary of State’s points with regard to the need for this Bill. I have little to add to my comments in the last two debates, particularly on my dismay at the fast-tracking of today’s legislation and my view that these decisions should properly be taken in the devolved legislature. I am, however, very pleased to note the Secretary of State’s points regarding MLAs’ allowances and staff costs not being cut. At least, constituents will therefore continue to be well-served from constituency offices. I certainly acknowledge the strength of feeling of the public of Northern Ireland on this issue, so we will not oppose the Bill.

Northern Ireland Budget (Anticipation and Adjustments) Bill

Deidre Brock Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & 3rd reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 20th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

I echo the comments made by the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State about the recent 25th anniversary commemoration of a truly terrible event, and I thank them for making that point.

The impasse at Stormont means Whitehall is taking decisions that should rightly be taken in Belfast. There is no upside to that; no good to be found in it. I take the opportunity to repeat the Scottish National party’s position that policy decisions on areas of competence that are devolved should be taken by Ministers in the devolved Administrations, rather than in Whitehall. Unfortunately, there are no Ministers in the Stormont Administration, so I find myself in reluctant agreement with the Secretary of State that legislation must be passed here to allow public services to operate in Northern Ireland.

I have to say, however, that the parties elected to Stormont have failed the people who put their trust in them and loaned them their votes. Plenty of excuses have been offered and there has been plenty of posturing, but no one has come out of the negotiations with credit, and the fact that Stormont is still in suspended animation is a disgrace. Some massive concessions were made to get power sharing up and running in the first place, and people risked a huge amount to pursue peace. It is to be hoped that the current set of politicians in Northern Ireland find the strength and the humility to get themselves back to the negotiating table to thrash out a deal and restart the Assembly, so that their budgets do not have to be passed here in the future. No matter what the reasons or excuses are for the current position, that is the least that electors should be entitled to expect.

Turning to the Bill, I thank the Secretary of State for providing me with a copy of it yesterday afternoon: it is always good to have sight of legislation before it starts its progress. I want to take just a few moments to talk about the rationale for fast-tracking as laid out in the explanatory notes, although I accept that there should be no further delay. I acknowledge that there is a need to provide resources to the civil service to allow continued spending on public services, and I of course appreciate that confidence and supply is important. I find it difficult, however, to accept the delay that we have witnessed so far. I will quote the paragraph from the explanatory notes for clarity:

“The Government has sought to defer legislation for as long as possible to enable final decisions on the allocations to be made by a restored Executive. The need for this Bill arises from the lack of an agreement and the appointment of an Executive within the timescale required for a Budget Bill to be brought through the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is taken forward at the latest possible point before the risk to public services could manifest. In the circumstances, therefore, it has not been possible to give Parliament more time to scrutinise this Bill, without risking the delivery of public services in Northern Ireland or distracting from and undermining the talks aimed at restoring an Executive.”

We have watched this situation grinding on for a long time now. We have not been kept in the dark about the difficulties in the negotiations—real or fabricated—and we have all known it was likely that we were trundling towards this point. In my view, this legislation should have been prepared and started in good time for it to be considered properly; it could have been abandoned if an agreement had been reached. I cannot accept that the progress of a budget Bill would distract from or undermine the talks aimed at restoring power sharing and getting Ministers in place. It might well have focused attention and sharpened the negotiations. To be fair, the Secretary of State is not long in the job—a couple of months—but I still think this should have been foreseen and that she or her predecessor should have begun the process. The drafting could have started without compromising anything.

That said, we have arrived at this point, and we have to deal with the situation we have, rather than the situation we would have preferred to have had. We have to provide the civil servants in Belfast with the resources they need to do their job properly, and give public servants across Northern Ireland some certainty about the funding they need to continue operating—literally, in some cases.

I will offer no amendment to this Bill, nor will I seek to impede its progress. I will accept the amounts for each Department mentioned in the schedule as being made on the recommendation of the head of the Northern Ireland civil service in conjunction with the Northern Ireland civil service board. Their knowledge of what is likely to be needed on the ground over the next financial year outweighs any considerations that Members in the Chamber might have. The challenges that lie ahead for them in the near future are large, and I do not envy them their tasks.

As I said earlier, these decisions would be better taken by politicians elected for that purpose by the people who will be affected by these decisions. It is to be hoped—devoutly to be hoped—that this will be the last budget for Northern Ireland that gets set here. I urge all sides in the negotiations over power sharing to get back to the table and find a resolution. In the meantime, this Bill should be approved for the sake of keeping the lights and the heating on for public services.