DRAFT GENERAL FOOD HYGIENE (AMENDMENT) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019 DRAFT CONTAMINANTS IN FOOD (AMENDMENT) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019 DRAFT SPECIFIC FOOD HYGIENE (AMENDMENT ETC.) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019 DRAFT GENERAL FOOD LAW (AMENDMENT ETC.) (EU EXIT) REGULATIONS 2019

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Steve Brine

Tuesday 5th March 2019 General Committees

[Steve Brine]

I shall work in reverse and begin with the comments of the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse, who is a good man. He may not have been a public health Minister, but if he had been, he would have been a very good one. We have engaged with certain issues many times in Westminster Hall and I know exactly where he would place his focus if he were in my job. Hey, he might be one day—who knows?

To begin with the point about transposition, the simple answers is yes. As I said, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 allows us only to do the housekeeping. That is effectively what these constant fun Tuesday mornings about. They are about the housekeeping and transposing regulations into domestic law. I cannot imagine why anyone would oppose them, because it would be to oppose the status quo, which, I think everyone agrees, keeps the public safe.

There were lots of questions from my dear friend and shadow, the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West. She started where she always does, and I shall start where I always do, with the withdrawal agreement. Let us remember, we are not discussing a deal, or a future trade deal, but a withdrawal agreement—a divorce, if you like. Yes, there is no withdrawal agreement yet, and there are 24 days, but the hon. Lady knows what I am going to say. She has a golden chance next week, on or before next Wednesday, to change that.

As to scrutiny, we have spent quite a lot of time in Committee sittings scrutinising SIs together, and in some ways it has been an interesting spring cleaning process, has it not? We have delved into some regulations that I suspect have not been discussed in this place for a long time. The hon. Lady rightly says that we cannot get this wrong, because we have to bear in mind consumer confidence always. That is why we are so keen to get things right.

The hon. Lady raised the issue of relaxation, but that would not happen under the present process, because, as I said to the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse, this is a process of transposition. Any relaxation—or indeed increase—of rules in the area in question would be subject to discussion, consultation and approval by this place. That is when we finally find out what “take back control” means.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

This follows on a little from what the Minister has been saying, but I understand that rates of food poisoning in the US are 10 times those of the UK, and the death rates from food poisoning are also much higher. Whatever happens next week, will the Minister assure us that any trade deals negotiated with the US and elsewhere will involve the same standards of food safety that we require now?

[Steve Brine]

What I can do is repeat the words of the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, who have said that there will be no diminution of food safety standards in pursuit of trade deals with the US or anywhere else; and even if such changes were proposed, Parliament would have the final say. Hon. Members can read the paper that was set out last week, on how the Government would conduct future trade negotiations and engage with Parliament. I think we know where Parliament would stand on the matter of diminution of food standards.

[Debbie Abrahams]

rose—

[Steve Brine]

I am happy to give way to the hon. Lady a second time, but then I must make progress.

[Debbie Abrahams]

The Minister is always very kind. Can I assume, then, that he and his Secretary of State have sent a letter to the US ambassador, giving short shrift about our agricultural farming methods?

[Steve Brine]

I do not think that we have sent a letter. I am not sure that it would be my place to do so anyway, but the British Government have been crystal clear that we do not expect any degradation of food standards in pursuit of a future trade deal. That has been said by the Prime Minister, down to those at my lowly rank.

To go back to what the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West said about maintaining high standards of food safety, leaving the EU does not change our top priority, which is to ensure that UK food remains safe, and that the label says what it is. The Food Standards Agency is working very hard to ensure that high standards of food safety are maintained. We are committed to having a robust regulatory regime in place from day one that will mean that businesses can continue as normal. That is why we are transposing the legislation word for word.

The hon. Lady talked about RASFF, the rapid alert system for food and feed, to which the UK is a major contributor. RASFF facilitates vital food and feed safety data sharing. It is clearly of mutual benefit to the UK and our EU partners to share food and feed safety information quickly, so securing continued access to, and participation in, the system after leaving the EU is one of our top food safety priorities. We continue to press for full access to that vital data-sharing system in our negotiations with the EU. Even as a third country, the UK will continue to receive information from the EU as required by EU law—it is worth putting that on the record—where a food or feed subject to notification under the rapid alert system has been dispatched from the EU to the UK. However, not having full RASFF access would mean less data than is currently available, which may affect UK timely communications on food safety issues.

With regard to actions that we will take to mitigate the loss of full access, the FSA has been building on proven mechanisms, such as the monitoring of key data sources and a new strategic surveillance programme, to enhance its capability and capacity to respond effectively to any food-borne contamination or outbreak incident that occurs in the UK, for the protection of our consumers. In terms of other international engagement, the FSA is implementing an enhanced programme of bilateral engagement and surveillance that focuses on the exchange of information on risks to the food chain. It is engaging with competent food safety authorities across Europe and worldwide, building on its strong reputation and established contacts to develop a mutually supportive approach to information sharing on food safety incidents.

There is no getting away from the fact that we have decided to leave, and are leaving, the EU. We therefore will leave some of its processes, one of which is the RASFF. However, as I have said, we will do our utmost to secure continued access to it—we were, of course, a huge contributor to establishing it in the first place. If we cannot, some of the mitigations that I have outlined will be important.

The hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West asked about the FSA. Her Majesty’s Treasury has made significant extra funding available to the FSA to increase staff, for instance, some of whom are in the room. The FSA’s resource has expanded to ensure that it can undertake the assessment and the risk exercise, to ensure food safety. In answer to a direct question, I am satisfied that it has the new resources that it needs.

The hon. Lady asked about the additional burden on industry for enforcement. We do not expect any additional enforcement burdens. The law and the regulations remain exactly the same, which is why I addressed the transposition point first in my response. She also mentioned the need for clarity on the transition period for businesses to implement any changes. As I have said, the transition period will involve the continuation of the existing standards, so businesses will not need to adapt to any extensive changes.

I was asked whether we will fund local authorities for additional burdens. We are providing support to enforcement officers in local authorities to allow them to continue to enforce the legislation. However, no policy changes are being made in practice. For labelling changes domestically, the transition period will be considered. We may talk about such statutory instruments in future happy moments, but today’s legislation is not about the labelling of products. Of course, we will have a whole new freedom once we leave the European Union in terms of labelling. I have talked about that in other policy areas—around obesity, for instance, with traffic light labelling.

The hon. Lady talked about 60 minutes of familiarisation not being realistic. Were there substantial changes, I suppose that that would not be realistic, no matter how fast one reads. However, businesses will need little familiarisation time, for the reasons that I have said.

Finally, the spokesperson for the Scottish National party, the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw, talked about the importance of Scottish food exports. They are indeed very important to the country, including within the UK single market. That is why there is some level of consistency, and why we expect to have convergence across the four nations of the UK. That is very important for the internal market, and for Scottish food exports to the EU. I know what I would do if I represented a seat in Scotland and the Scottish food industry: I would ensure that we have a smooth and safe transition out of the EU at the end of March. There will be a golden opportunity for the hon. Lady to do that next week.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft General Food Hygiene (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Draft Contaminants in Food (amendment) (EU Exit) regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Contaminants in Food (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Steve Brine.)

Draft specific Food Hygiene (amendment Etc.) (EU Exit) regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Specific Food Hygiene (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Steve Brine.)

Draft General Food Law (amendment Etc.) (EU Exit) regulations 2019

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft General Food Law (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.—(Steve Brine.)

National Health Service

Debate between Debbie Abrahams and Steve Brine

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Debbie Abrahams]

No, I am sorry; I am not going to give way.

We should compare our health care management costs with those in the United States, where they run at over 20%. We need to be very careful about what we are talking about.

[Mr Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)]

rose—