Prisons and Secure Training Centres: Safety

Debate between David Winnick and Michael Gove

Monday 11th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

The transfer from G4S to MTCnovo should reinforce some of the changes that are already taking place, which ensure that children and young people are better looked after. I had the opportunity to visit Rainsbrook, where I saw that staff were taking very seriously some of the unhappy practices that had been reported in the past and were determined to improve the care of young people.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Despite what the Minister said earlier, why should organisations with such a dubious record, to say the least, be given such responsibility, as we all agree that the safety of children is of the utmost importance? Why should such work be outsourced in the first place?

[Michael Gove]

There are two related points. First, there are institutions that are run by G4S, which are the responsibility of the Ministry of Justice, that are well run, that have been inspected and that every respectable observer believes are run in the interests of the inmates in a way that ensures that inmates do have a chance to turn their lives around. More broadly, it is fair to say that, within the secure estate overall, there needs to be a balance between the innovation that can be brought by outside organisations, and the rigour that proper inspection and proper monitoring can guarantee. That balance is always a difficult one to strike.

Saudi Penal System

Debate between David Winnick and Michael Gove

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

I take my right hon. Friend’s comments very seriously. He is absolutely right to say that constructive engagement with Governments like Saudi Arabia’s is always the wisest course. However, it is also the case that there is always a balance to be struck in the nature of the engagement that we make. The decision was made across Government that the Just Solutions International branch of the National Offender Management Service should be wound up, and this decision is consequent on that cross-Government decision.

As I have said before at the Dispatch Box, it is vital that we support the Foreign Office, its skilled diplomats and its excellent Ministers in the work that they continue to do to influence not just the Saudi Government, but other Governments who are considering how they can improve their own domestic human rights record and, indeed, promote the rule of law.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is it not almost farcical that the Saudi ambassador to the United Nations is actually chairing a panel that selects officials to decide on human rights violations? I am not aware that the United Kingdom has protested about that; it was probably a party to the appointment.

Is it not also the case that the Saudi Government do not take too seriously the various disapprovals expressed occasionally by Ministers, because they know that Britain will continue to sell arms on a substantial scale to a country where executions occur, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter)? Britain’s dealings with that state do not present a very pretty picture.

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman has made two points. The first relates to the involvement of Saudi Arabia in the United Nations. Again, I should stress that this is a matter for another Department. However, I think that we should encourage the involvement of countries in international institutions when we can bring pressure and influence to bear on them to meet higher standards when it comes to the rule of law and human rights. That is an ongoing process; it is a dialogue.

In the same spirit, I should also stress that there are, of course, individual British companies that do business in Saudi Arabia, and there are shared security interests as well. Any responsible Government will always want to balance those interests with standing up for and making the case for progress in the realm of human rights, and that has been the consistent policy of this Government.

School Closures (Thursday)

Debate between David Winnick and Michael Gove

Tuesday 28th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

As I said in my statement, not every teaching union has chosen to go on strike this Thursday. While I am well aware of the strong feelings that exist about the future of teachers’ pensions, I know that many people who will be taking industrial action feel understandably concerned about what will happen when schools close, and I think it important for all of us to recognise that people who are working hard to keep schools open are operating in a public-spirited fashion and deserve our support.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Are the Secretary of State and other members of the Cabinet aware that many public sector workers, including teachers, believe that a war has been declared against them over their standard of living and their pensions? They are sick and tired of a Cabinet, consisting of a fair number of multi-millionaires, which takes such a hostile attitude to people who want to work for the community—as teachers do—but whose standard of living is constantly being undermined.

[Michael Gove]

I have a lot of respect for the hon. Gentleman, who has been in the House for many years and has stood up for many unpopular and noble causes, but I think that he is quite wrong in this instance. We are not declaring war on anyone. We want to ensure that our public finances can be restored to balance after what happened under the last Government, and we also want to ensure that public sector workers have the best pensions available. It is critical for us to ensure that our reforms proceed. The right hon. Member for Leigh made it clear that we need to work constructively on the basis of Lord Hutton’s proposals. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will reflect on his rhetoric, and recognise that it is not helpful to parents or to his own community.

Education Maintenance Allowance

Debate between David Winnick and Michael Gove

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

Not yet. That may just be coincidence, but what was deliberate was that instead of getting control of public expenditure—[Interruption.] I know that the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) does not like being reminded of what happened under her Government and on her watch, but as long as I have breath in my body I will remind the people of this country of the devastating mess that the Labour party made of the economy. It is rank hypocrisy—

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Yes, I am passionate about this. Why should young people be saddled with the economic mess left by that lot? That lot then come back here to say that we are taking opportunity away, knocking the ladder away and increasing youth unemployment, but who created this mess? It was the guilty men and women on the Opposition Front Bench. When the right hon. Member for Leigh was Chief Secretary to the Treasury—

[Mr Winnick]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Michael Gove]

No.

When the right hon. Gentleman was Chief Secretary to the Treasury, in the first three months—we should remember that the economy was growing at the time—he borrowed an additional £7 billion, and in the next three months he borrowed an additional £21 billion. For every hour that he was Chief Secretary, our debt rose by £5 million—and as I said, the economy was growing at that time. Perhaps he will now take the opportunity to defend his impressive stewardship of this nation’s finances during those seven magical months.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

It is now a pleasure to give way to the hon. Member for Walsall North (Mr Winnick).

[Mr Winnick]

At one moment the deficit is cited as the reason for the abolition of EMA, and in another moment we will no doubt hear the educational reasons. The right hon. Gentleman cannot seem to make up his mind. I wrote to all the secondary schools in my constituency asking what percentage of 16 to 19-year-olds were receiving EMA—in a constituency and borough where incomes are considerably lower than in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency. In every case the heads replied that it was more than 50%. In one school it was as high as 75%, and in Walsall college it was nearly 60%. These were matters that I raised on the Adjournment last week. What will happen to those who now receive EMA, and young people in the future, who want to stay on beyond the compulsory leaving age but find it very difficult, financially, to do so?

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, whose commitment to this issue I know to be profound, which is why he raised it on the Adjournment last week, when the Minister of State, Department for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) had a chance to reply. I would, of course, expect that in any disadvantaged constituency such as the one that the hon. Gentleman represents so well, a significant number would be in receipt of EMA. Nearly half of students receive EMA.

I put that to the right hon. Member for Leigh, but I received no reply. He grudgingly acknowledges, under questioning from Government Members, that there is a case for reform—so far, so good—but when put to the test and asked what sort of reform, what numbers, what tests and on what basis, he did not—[Interruption.] Is he now retracting? Free bus travel is mentioned, but has the cost to the Exchequer been taken into account? [Interruption.] Look, I am asking the right hon. Gentleman questions, but once again he is ducking and diving, dodging and weaving, and refusing to address the vacuum where policy should be.

School Sports Funding

Debate between David Winnick and Michael Gove

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

At the moment, we are looking to see exactly how much we can devote to sport, music, science, languages and all those specific areas of curriculum support that are outside the school budget. We have increased overall school funding by £3.6 billion.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State bear in mind the adverse effect that his policy will have on a number of schools? I have received a letter from the head of a sports college in my constituency in which fine academic and sporting work is done. The head is very concerned about what the impact will be—starting next year. What is the Secretary of State going to do to reassure people like her? She is dedicated to teaching and is rightly worried about how her school will be affected.

[Michael Gove]

The hon. Gentleman makes his point very well. I am sensitive to the fact that teachers and head teachers across the country are entering difficult times in respect not just of sport funding but of overall funding. The economic situation was not of the making of Government Members, but we are doing everything we can to help schools through this difficult time. One thing we are doing is removing ring-fencing. If he was referring to a specialist sports college, that will mean money that was hitherto ring-fenced as part of its specialist status now going directly to that head teacher, who I am sure is doing an excellent job. If she has, as I am sure she has, his confidence and mine, that money will be spent in a wise fashion.