Public Disorder

David Winnick Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

The Home Affairs Committee is going to conduct an inquiry, as we know, and we will see what conclusions it reaches and whether its report will be unanimous, but in my view a public inquiry might also be needed, because it is very important to determine the circumstances of Mark Duggan’s death, what happened afterwards and how his partner and family were informed.

When I refer to the involvement of social and economic factors, the immediate response from Government Members may be to claim that I am an apologist for what has happened. I am nothing of the kind. Like everyone else, I condemn the looting, the arson and the manner in which mobs were in control in the absence of the police. In some cases law-abiding people feared for their lives. That was the case in West Bromwich and Wolverhampton, which is near my constituency, and of course there was the tragic killing of three young men in Birmingham. I am not an apologist for law-breaking and never will be, but there are social and economic factors, such as deprivation and gangs. Questions have rightly been raised about the involvement of youngsters, some of them only nine, 10 or 11 years old, and, of course, the lack of parental control. Those are all part of the social and economic factors to which I have referred.

In the limited time available, I want to talk about the police. It is interesting that when Members have spoken today they have referred to the fact that the police were not around or that not enough of them were around. No one has suggested for one moment that there were too many police. We heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks), for example, that it was impossible to contact the police. In those circumstances, I ask the Ministers who are present, and the Prime Minister and the Home Secretary, who are no longer in their places, whether it really makes any sense to go ahead with the proposed cuts.

In the west midlands it is intended that there will be 1,000 fewer officers. Indeed, more than 100 officers who have more than 30 years’ service have already been asked to leave against their wishes. They do not want to retire from the police service. The Government have argued time and again that that is necessary because of the cuts, but I believe that reducing police numbers and taking the view that what has happened in the past few days will not be repeated is very foolish. I know that my view will be dismissed as purely party political.

The other point I want to make is that I am very wary indeed of rubber bullets, water cannon and the rest of it. I am, always have been and probably always will be a firm believer in the ordinary policing that has been used in this country. In my view, the use of water cannon, rubber bullets and the rest of it, which has been suggested, far from resolving the issue, would probably escalate it and would have made the situation in the last four nights even worse. Let us put our confidence in ordinary policing and for heaven’s sake not go ahead with the reduction in police numbers. It makes no sense at all.