Port Talbot Steelworks

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 30th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I am sorry to have to say this to the hon. Gentleman, but it is slightly insulting for him to suggest that the tone in which I have set out the answers suggests casual disregard or a lack of interest. I assure him that nothing whatsoever in the Wales Office at the moment is more important than securing the future of Port Talbot. I am sorry, but frankly, while this Government are putting up £500 million to ensure the future of steelmaking in south Wales and demonstrating an interest in making steel, some Opposition Members are more interested in making headlines.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

My constituents who work in Port Talbot inform me that there has been no progress on enhanced redundancy negotiations between the unions and Tata. Given the scale of the public investment involved, will the British Government use their leverage to ensure that Tata treats its workforce with a degree of dignity?

[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I think that Tata now needs to come forward with a bit more information about who exactly we can expect to see being made redundant and what their current skillsets are, so that we can begin targeting the help. The challenge up until now is that we have not had the information on who is being made redundant. Tata has made it clear that it will not automatically be the people on the blast furnaces, for example, who are made redundant, because it hopes to retain some of the people who are working there but offer redundancy to people in other parts of the plant. We have not had the information as of yet, but I think the time has come to have that information. We of course want to ensure that any redundancy packages are as generous as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Wednesday 13th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I would not. My friend in the Senedd has spoken out repeatedly about the Welsh Labour Government’s plans for an overnight tourism tax, which will have a detrimental impact on tourism businesses across Wales. The hon. Lady’s party is in partnership with the Welsh Labour Government, and if she really wants to support the Welsh tourism industry, I suggest she tells it that her Members will vote against Welsh Labour’s Budget, to prevent that tax from coming in.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

3. What discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero and the Welsh Government on electricity transmission and distribution policy.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

The Government are committed to transforming our electricity network to reach our energy security and net zero ambitions. We recently announced an ambitious electricity network package that will reduce consumer bills, bring forward £90 billion of investment over the next 10 years and allow us to harness Wales’s renewable resources, such as floating offshore wind in the Celtic sea.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Pylon developments for electricity transmission and distribution purposes are very controversial in the communities that are expected to host them. I have four such potential developments in my constituency, and the whole of Carmarthenshire is in uproar. Will the right hon. Gentleman ask the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero to commission a study on technologies such as cable ploughing, which allow undergrounding and have a comparable cost to pylons?

[David T. C. Davies]

I understand the concerns that have been raised in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency. He has discussed this with me previously, and is championing his constituents’ concerns. The information that I have been given is that laying cables underground would cost five to seven times more, but I hear what he is saying. If he has a presentation or something that he can forward to me, I would be delighted to make sure that officials in the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero see it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Wednesday 19th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

7. What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on helping people in Wales with the rising cost of living.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

I have frequent discussions with ministerial colleagues on a range of matters, including the cost of living. As I have previously said today, we are supporting households and businesses across Wales with the cost of living challenges, including on energy costs.

[Jonathan Edwards]

People in Carmarthenshire who are off the gas grid have seen huge increases in heating costs—for oil, LPG and solid fuels. The alternative fuel payment of £100 does not seem to be equivalent to the cap for gas. Will the Minister write to Welsh MPs outlining the methodology used by the British Government to calculate the AFP rate?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Wednesday 9th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I would be delighted to meet the hon. Gentleman to discuss that issue. I would approach it with an open mind. I will perhaps remind the hon. Gentleman that it was a Conservative Government who established S4C. It was also a Conservative Government who introduced the Welsh Language Act 1993. He may also know that it was a Conservative Chairman of the Welsh Affairs Committee who allowed Welsh to be spoken for the first time in Select Committee hearings. Modesty prevents me from saying any more on that, but I can assure him that we will always want to support the Welsh language.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind)]

4. What recent discussions he has had with (a) Cabinet colleagues and (b) the Welsh Government on improving broadband coverage and speeds in Wales.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

The Secretary of State recently met the Culture Secretary to discuss the delivery of the UK Government’s £5 billion Project Gigabit, which will deliver gigabit connections to the hardest to reach 20% of the UK. Up to 234,000 homes and businesses in Wales should benefit from this investment.

[Jonathan Edwards]

Diolch, Mr Speaker. According to the House of Commons Library, 17.4% of lines in my constituency receive less than 10 megabits per second, one of the worst records in the British state. It is clear, therefore, that the UK Government and Welsh Government broadband strategies are failing large parts of Carmarthenshire. Will the Wales Office emphasise that mission 4 of the levelling-up White Paper published last week prioritises areas that have been neglected so far?

[David T. C. Davies]

Those figures are concerning, and I agree that that connectivity needs to become a priority. However, the statistics will also show that the number of homes connected to fast broadband in Wales has risen from just 11% in 2019 to 47% in 2022. That number continues to rise and later this week—in fact, tomorrow—I shall be visiting the Swansea Bay growth deal to look at a project that will further increase connectivity in Wales.

Welsh Rural Economy

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Westminster Hall

[David T. C. Davies]

Looking into the future and the long term, of course that is the case. The level of sterling or the Australian dollar could vary or the markets in China may not be the same, but there is generally seen to be a drive towards greater wealth, not just in China but across the whole of the Asia-Pacific rim, which is driving an increase in the demand for beef and sheep meat. I cannot pretend to look into the future and guess what currency and stock prices might do—if I was any good at that, I probably would not be an MP, as I would be making millions in the City. Based on 560 tonnes coming in at the moment, I do not see that there is anything very much for anyone to worry about, even the Irish farmers, and especially not considering the very high-quality beef that we produce in Wales, and in Scotland, if I may say so to the hon. Member for Angus.

The danger of ad-libbing means that I have probably used half my speech on that issue, so I will now turn to tourism. It is another area that is of great interest and importance to us in Wales—I think it was mentioned by the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd. I was absolutely delighted when I was in north Wales to be able to sample the first-class tourism that north Wales has to offer. I did so by staying at the brand-spanking-new Hilton Garden Inn, the first Hilton in north Wales, and visiting Surf Snowdonia, which certainly was no hardship for me. I also looked at some of the other tourism projects that are taking place in north Wales, which are all coming about as a result of the growth deals that have been funded jointly by the UK Government and the Welsh Government. We have put £120 million into the north Wales growth deal. We will support the mid-Wales growth deal with £55 million across the region, and I hope tourism will play a part in that and in the other regions of Wales.

We are also very, very ambitious as to what the growth deals can do in helping to support our efforts to become net zero by 2050. The hon. Member for Angus mentioned floating offshore wind. I suspect I know which company he met with and I know it is very enthusiastic about getting floating offshore wind into Scotland and off the coast of Wales. I do not know what is going on in Scotland, but I can tell the hon. Gentleman that I personally signed off a cheque for some of the money for the Swansea Bay city deal, which will help build infrastructure at Pembroke Dock to enable floating offshore wind companies to trial their products there.

I believe I know which company it is, and I fully support its enthusiasm for dealing with BEIS. However, BEIS is already saying that it will ensure, when the new contract for difference auctions come forward, that offshore wind is part of that mix, so it may be reluctant to talk to specific companies. I can understand why that might be, because BEIS will not want to be seen to be lobbied by or to give preference to any single company, but it has made it very clear that floating offshore wind will be supported through a strike price. That should enable those industries to thrive, which is a very good thing.

Notwithstanding the enthusiasm of the hon. Member for Angus for Scotland, I would like to say that there is indeed huge potential in the coastal areas of Wales. We are absolutely blessed with marine energy potential and we are seeing a number of early-stage schemes looking into that. As well as Pembrokeshire, I should mention the Morlais project in north Wales, which is more about hydro energy than floating offshore energy. I believe that might be one of the first projects that comes forward in the North Wales growth deal—I very much hope so. It is one that I was certainly enthused by, and I know that my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn has done a great deal to lobby me and BEIS Ministers to ensure that that project goes ahead

Finally, I shall turn to transport, which has also been mentioned by various Members present. I would never underestimate its importance to the rural economy. It is only fitting that the global centre of rail excellence will be on the site of the Nant Helen opencast mine in Onllwyn; that facility will support innovation in the UK rail industry, including the testing of cutting-edge green technology. That is a real vote of confidence in rural Wales, and one that the Secretary of State for Wales was absolutely instrumental in making a reality. I know how many meetings he personally held with various officials and other Ministers to make sure that that happened.

In addition the UK Government are developing numerous other rail schemes, such as the £2.7 million Cambrian line signalling upgrade, which is due to be delivered by May 2022. The upgrade will enable the introduction of new trains and allow interoperability with other digital signalling schemes. There are also the investments that have been made in new stations, such as Bow Street in Ceredigion; I think the hon. Member for Ceredigion and I were there at the virtual opening of that in February 2021.

There is the £17 million being spent on the Conwy Valley line between Llandudno Junction and Blaenau Ffestiniog to repair and restore it after multiple flood events in the past five years. We are also going through the outline business cases to develop the freight lines on the South Wales relief line, which will mean more trains going between Cardiff and Bristol and will have a beneficial impact on constituents of the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney, I am sure. In north Wales, we are beginning the process of the outline business case to improve the North Wales Coast line. So there is a great deal going on to improve transport in Wales.

I take slight issue with the mention by the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr of the much-quoted figure of 11% of the railways and 1% of the funding, because that was simply looking at enhancements. I believe that page 20 of the same report—I may be wrong about that, but it is certainly in there somewhere—makes it clear that, actually, if you look at maintenance operations, renewals and enhancements, the overall figure is closer to around 4%, so it is not quite the headline that the hon. Gentleman states.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The Minister may not accept my argument on that point, but has he read the statement of funding policy that accompanied the last comprehensive spending review? It indicated that the Barnett consequential share for Wales is plummeting as a result of the Department for Transport spending on HS2, and showed the inequity that Wales faces compared with Scotland and Northern Ireland because of that.

[David T. C. Davies]

I think the hon. Gentleman is right that HS2 was not Barnettised, and I would be heading off down a branch line myself in terms of this debate if I go into it. Very briefly, virtually everyone here has signed up to the view that we need to become carbon-neutral by 2050. If we are to do that, one of the things that we must do is get people out of their cars and on to trains. If we are to do that successfully, we need to build lines where they will get the maximum number of people out of cars and on to trains, and that happens to be along the HS2 route.

Some expert in the field said to me the other day that it was a pity it was called High Speed 2, because that gives the impression that it is all about delivering a high-speed train. But he said it is not at all; it is about delivering a huge amount of extra rail capacity that will get vast numbers of people out of their cars, off the roads and on to a train, which will be powered by electricity that should come from green sources. Possibly the name could have been slightly better chosen.

I may have exhausted your patience, Mrs Cummins, so if there are no further interventions, let me thank all hon. Members for an interesting, perceptive debate. If I have not responded to every question, I should be more than delighted to do so if I am reminded of what they are.

The UK Government’s commitment to the Welsh rural economy is not in any doubt. It is integral to building back better from the pandemic, as well as strengthening the Union. Our support for the Welsh rural economy is unwavering and I am sure will go from strength to strength in the coming months and years, driving local growth and creating jobs. As we come out of this pandemic as a result of the wonderful vaccine, that it was possible to deliver so quickly as a result of Brexit, the Secretary of State for Wales and I look forward to visiting Wales on many occasions over the coming months and hopefully even years—who knows—in order to see those growth deals in action and to watch levelling up happen before our eyes. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Wednesday 3rd February 2021 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (David T. C. Davies)]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has regular discussions with the First Minister and Welsh Ministers on a range of issues, including the UK shared prosperity fund. The Government will continue to engage with the Welsh Government as we develop the fund’s investment framework for publication.

[Jonathan Edwards [V]]

From the figures that I have seen, the British Government may have conflated overrun spend from the previous convergence period for this financial year with the actual allocation of new money. Under the previous scheme, Wales would receive nearly £400 million per annum. Is not the reality that the Minister is unable to guarantee that the shared prosperity fund, when fully operational, will match that level of investment? Why will he not just admit that the communities that both the Secretary of State and I represent in Carmarthenshire are about to get fleeced?

[David T. C. Davies]

The figures will show that on average Wales is receiving £375 million a year. What the hon. Gentleman may be referring to is the fact that over a number of years to follow there will still be some money coming to Wales from the European Union. Of course, it is absolutely right that that money should be counted towards the £375 million total, and the Government will guarantee to ensure that the amount of money to be spent in Wales in future will be exactly the same, or higher, than the amount that was spent previously.

European Union Citizenship

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am always delighted to hear from the right hon. Lady, with whom I work very closely on these matters. However, I fear that the Prime Minister in her speech managed to continue the strategy of trying to placate both sides of the Conservative party. Ultimately, she is going to have to make a call one way or the other. The fact that the right hon. Lady welcomed the speech and the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) welcomed the speech—

[David T. C. Davies]

And me.

[Jonathan Edwards]

The hon. Gentleman also did so. The fact that they both welcomed the speech leaves me concerned that the Prime Minister is not exactly making a definitive decision on those major issues, on which the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) and I actually agree.

As I was saying, the Prime Minister conceded in her speech that she would seek associate membership of several EU agencies. If that is the case, why not apply the same principle to citizenship? Since Plaid Cymru launched our campaign on this issue at the weekend, my Twitter feed has become the location for a lively debate. Indeed, earlier this afternoon I was called a traitor by some people, which indicates the strength of feeling that the debate has generated.

[David T. C. Davies]

I respect the hon. Gentleman, and I totally condemn anyone who has referred to him in that fashion for expressing his views, just as I am sure he would do in relation to those on the other side. We all have a duty here to be courteous in our debate.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

I accept that that would be absurd, and I do not think for one moment that it will happen, because I am certain that with or without these reforms—I very much hope that they go through—the services that are offered in England will continue to be of the highest quality. However, the Welsh Assembly Government could choose to do that if they felt that the necessary services were not being provided. It is a purely hypothetical situation, because the services in England will be as good as, if not better than, they already are.

Waiting lists in Wales are far longer than they are in England. While 90% of people in England get treatment within 18 weeks, the figure is about 68% in Wales. People in Wales are twice as likely as those in England to succumb to a hospital-acquired infection. One of the rare cancer charities has said that people who live in England are five times more likely to get drugs for rare forms of cancer than those who live in Wales. Our health service in Wales is no longer the envy of the world; it is certainly not the envy of other nations of the United Kingdom. We have no moral right to tell the English what they can do with their better-run health service when ours is running so lamentably.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I have some sympathy with the hon. Gentleman’s argument as regards political sovereignty, but the big issue about the health reforms in England is their effect on the Barnett consequentials, which have a direct impact on funding in Wales. For as long as the Welsh Government are funded by that very discredited formula, it is important for Welsh MPs to vote against Bills that reduce funding for the health service in Wales.

[David T. C. Davies]

I respect the hon. Gentleman’s view, but it is not one that is shared by his political counterparts in Scotland, who take the principled position that they will not get involved in any issues that are completely devolved. Since he has mentioned funding, it is worth pointing out that in England the Conservative-led coalition Government are putting more money into the health service every year at a time when the Welsh Assembly Government are cutting health funding.

I was referring to the NHS in the context of the Union, as did the right hon. Member for Torfaen. We are both Unionists. My simple point is that it will not be possible to construct a stable Union if there are left-wing Governments in Scotland and Wales, which are generally left-wing places, with left-wing Members of Parliament who try to prevent the English, who are generally slightly more conservative, from carrying out the policies that they wish to carry out. The hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition Benches are trying to have their cake and eat it.

Commission on Devolution in Wales

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[David T. C. Davies]

It is not a conspiratorial view; it is a view based on the history of what has been going on. We seem to be locked in a kind of constitutional groundhog day, with the same sequence of political events repeating itself over and over again. The process starts with the Welsh Assembly being granted a whole load of powers and saying, “That’s it, we’ve got all the tools we need for our toolkit.” That seems to be the popular term at the moment. “We’ve got everything we need now. We’re just going to get on with the job.” Then, a few years—or, in this case, a few months—later, it says, “Well, actually, we can’t do the job we need to do. We just need a few extra powers.” Then a commission of the great and the good is set up, often with the same people appearing time and again. They go off and consider the matter, public meetings are held, and they come back and say, “Yes, we need a bit more.” Perhaps a referendum is held, or perhaps there is just another Act of Parliament or some statutory instrument. The Assembly gets what it is given and everything goes quiet for a few months. Then the whole thing starts up again. We are in the first phase of the cycle at the moment. This is not a conspiracy; it is just how things have been happening in Wales since about 1999.

I would be delighted if we really were going to consider varying the powers of the Welsh Assembly, because I assume that varying can cut both ways. It could mean that, rather than just handing the Assembly new powers, we could look at taking a few powers away from it, once in a while. I suggested that in a Westminster Hall debate a few years ago, when Wales was doing particularly badly on the health service, but it did not seem to meet with much approval from anyone—certainly not anyone in my political party. The very fact that it had been suggested was a source of outrage to many.

The Welsh Assembly can take powers away from local authorities that are failing in Wales and, quite rightly, it has used them from time to time, so I see no reason why the Silk commission should not look realistically at the possibility of removing powers from the Welsh Assembly in devolved areas if standards have clearly dropped below those that all in the United Kingdom are entitled to expect.

Another area that I suspect the Silk commission will not look into—the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) mentioned it—is environmental taxes. To my mind, that would be very interesting indeed. As the right hon. Gentleman rightly said, Tata and other manufacturing companies in Wales that use large amounts of electricity are very angry about the way in which the environment has been used as a means to impose all sorts of extra tax burdens. The issue of the environment is worth exploring, but now is not the time or place—[Hon. Members: “Come on.”] It is very tempting, but I see Mr Deputy Speaker imperceptibly shaking his head at me. It is not for me to pose the question of why the temperature has not got any hotter since 1998, despite the fact that large amounts of carbon dioxide have gone into the atmosphere. That is not a question for today, but it is a very interesting one none the less—and I have never heard a satisfactory answer to it.

Let me move on to a more important question. If we accept that things will at some point start getting hotter because of carbon dioxide, requiring us to put all sorts of taxes on our industries, and if Welsh industries such as steel are affected, surely it is only right that those taxes be applied not just across the whole of the European Union or Europe but across the whole world. If we do not insist on that as a starting point, all that will happen is that those manufacturing industries—so important to us in Wales for jobs—will simply relocate to other parts of the world where those taxes are not being applied. It will not make a jot of difference to global carbon emissions, which will continue to come from wherever those factories relocate, but it will make a difference to jobs and the amount of tax that the Treasury collects within the UK. I would love to see the Silk commission looking into that idea, but I am afraid that I shall probably be disappointed.

You might conclude, Mr Deputy Speaker, from what I am saying that I am in some way against devolution—[Hon. Members: “No, never!”] I am not. I am devo-realist. I was against the idea of a Welsh Assembly and I have voted no at every opportunity ever since, but I say genuinely that I have a very high opinion of the abilities of the individual Members of the Welsh Assembly. I had the pleasure of working with them for eight years. I do not doubt their motives. I do not doubt the credibility of people like Rhodri Morgan, Dafydd Elis-Thomas or Nick Bourne, even though I might disagree with them on many fundamental issues.

My problem with what we are doing is very simple. The West Lothian question is the elephant in the room here. Every time we give further powers to the Welsh Assembly, we are weakening the United Kingdom. I believe that even some Labour Members, in their quieter and more reflective moments, share some of these concerns. Surely the priority for us constitutionally should not be thinking about granting further powers to the Welsh Assembly, but ensuring that all citizens of the UK have the same constitutional powers. The issue is about addressing the fact that we here in the Westminster Parliament vote on how the English run their schools, discuss how the English run their hospitals, yet we do not accept the right of anyone, including Members of Parliament, to have any say in how these issues are dealt with in Wales.

[Jonathan Edwards]

May I take it from the hon. Gentleman’s comments that he is arguing for a fully federal United Kingdom, whereby all the historic nations of the UK are treated on an equal basis?

[David T. C. Davies]

The hon. Gentleman is right. I have made that view public in the past. I think there is a strong case for looking at some form of English Parliament or some means to prevent Welsh and Scottish MPs from voting on matters that affect only England. I repeat that I have already made that viewpoint public. I do not pretend to know the exact answer, but I am in favour of something along those lines. It might well be that at that point, we would have to consider increasing the powers of the Welsh Assembly in line with those of the other parts of the United Kingdom. The hon. Gentleman will know, however, that that is something that happens in many countries across the world—in Canada, Germany and countries with a Commonwealth tradition such as Australia, for example. If that is thought through properly, it can work. My current difficulty is with the asymmetric nature of our arrangements. Giving further powers to Wales in this way—through the Silk commission if that is what it decides—is going to make them even more asymmetric.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jonathan Edwards]

Does the hon. Gentleman not recognise that currently local authorities in Wales can borrow and raise their own revenue, so what is the difference?

[David T. C. Davies]

They can only do so under fairly strict terms of engagement. There is no major difference, but what I am saying is that I do not want any more bodies to be able to do that. I certainly would not welcome the idea of the Assembly doing what Westminster Governments have done before—let us be honest about it—which is wait until a general election is coming along and then suddenly borrow billions of pounds on the international markets knowing that not many people understand the difference between debt and deficit, and are therefore unlikely to be able to work out the probable consequences of what is happening. Governments buy themselves elections in that way. I do not want to put that temptation in front of Members of the Welsh Assembly.

Finally, I am even more concerned about the idea of a separate judicial system for Wales. That would be costly and complex.

Constitutional Reform (Wales)

Debate between David T C Davies and Jonathan Edwards

Thursday 19th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Davies. The hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) is always a tough act to follow. I was hoping to make a hard-hitting speech, but I fear that my contribution might be somewhat timid in comparison with his. I want to concentrate on two specific issues. The first, on which all parties in the House have concerns, and which has been the focus of the debate so far, is the number of MPs who serve the people of Wales in Westminster. The second is the opportunities that the proposed Calman Cymru process may offer democracy in Wales.

Let us be in no doubt that the reason why the UK Government have introduced their proposals to cut the numbers of MPs from 650 to 600 is purely partisan. In nullifying the Celtic bias, the Prime Minister’s aim is clearly to enhance his electoral prospects at the next general election. We should ignore the spin surrounding equal-sized constituencies: if they undermined the Tory party’s electoral prospects, they would not be on the table.

I must admit that it is strange, as some Labour Members said in their contributions, that these changes are being introduced by the Conservative and Unionist party. Reducing Welsh representation in this place by a quarter will inevitably severely undermine the influence of Wales in this Parliament. The Westminster Parliament represents four distinct nations, and its make-up has always reflected that fact to avoid it becoming dominated by English representatives. Central Lobby, with its murals of the patron saints—St David, St Andrew, St Patrick and St George—is a reminder of the historical role played by the Westminster Parliament.

Many Members will undoubtedly be surprised to hear me make such points, because there will be no Welsh representation here at all if Plaid Cymru’s ultimate aim is achieved. However, as long as so many key political fields remain reserved, there is a role and a need in this place for Welsh MPs, and particularly Welsh Plaid Cymru MPs. [Interruption.] I am glad to see some Members nodding.

[David T. C. Davies]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making such an important point, which I fully agree with. For as long as Wales remains part of the United Kingdom, he and other Welsh Members should of course be allowed to take their places here. In the same way, people who did not agree with devolution or the Welsh Assembly, and who still have questions about it, have every right to sit in the Welsh Assembly if they are elected to it.

[Jonathan Edwards]

I am grateful for that, and I will stick the hon. Gentleman’s endorsement in my next leaflet.

I am not against reducing Welsh representation in the House of Commons as a point of principle. However, any reductions should take place only after the devolution of political fields of responsibility. I do not, therefore, accept the argument that the successful March referendum justifies reductions in the number of Welsh MPs. The referendum did not devolve extra fields of power, but merely secured sovereignty over currently devolved fields. If we were to have the same devolved fields of power as Scotland, however, I would see the case for reducing the number of Welsh MPs.

For the remainder of my speech, I would like to concentrate on the UK Government’s proposed Calman process for Wales and its constitutional implications. I seriously hope that the Wales Office is not proposing a rerun of the Scottish experiment, which was a stitch-up by the Unionist parties and has now backfired spectacularly. The government of Scotland Bill that followed the Scottish Calman process lies in tatters because of the Sewel convention. There is no way the majority Scottish National party Government in Scotland will accept a Bill that totally ignores their views on the way forward for their country. I therefore hope that the Calman Cymru process will be fair, open, transparent and free from political influence.

To date, much of the debate surrounding the Welsh Calman has been about finance. The Holtham report is unlikely to be bettered, so the best course of action for the UK Government would be to accept its detailed recommendations. Reform of the Barnett formula should be a precondition for any further financial changes, but I am concerned at the noises that have come from the Treasury to date. That will be a major challenge for the new Welsh Government, and all their rhetoric about standing up for our country will be seriously tested on this single issue.

However, I welcome the fact that the Calman Cymru process will reopen debate about the Government of Wales Act 2006. In particular, we will have the opportunity to revisit the gerrymandering carried out under the Act by the then Labour Government in Westminster. The section introduced in 2006 to prohibit candidates from standing in regional lists and constituencies should be overturned. A similar ban exists only in Ukraine, and it is high time that we in Wales joined the rest of the democratic world.

The Calman Cymru process is also an opportunity to revisit the electoral make-up of the National Assembly in time for the fifth Assembly. My personal preference would be for us to increase the membership of the National Assembly to 80, as advocated by Lord Elystan-Morgan. Those 80 Members should be elected by a single transferable vote system. When the government of Wales Bill, which follows the Welsh Calman process, comes to this place, I will call for amendments to that effect, unless such provisions are already included in the Bill.