Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 5th September 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, which I think has relevance not just to matters of penal policy but to social policy more generally. Many charitable and voluntary organisations are helping—for example, by bringing sport into prisons—to provide the adult male role models of whom he wants more. In the context of extremism, it is also important to pay tribute to the work of the imams in the prison chaplaincy service who are arguing, from a basis of scholarship and expertise, to rebut the extremist ideology that some have espoused.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Figures from the right hon. Gentleman’s own Department show that there are approximately 1,000 prisoners who have either been radicalised or are vulnerable to being radicalised. When they leave prison, those such as Khalid Masood, the Westminster terrorist, need to be effectively monitored. Is the Lord Chancellor satisfied that there is a sufficiently robust relationship between the police and the prison authorities to make sure that when such people come out of prison we know where they are and what they are doing?

[Mr Lidington]

The information we have is that only one of those involved in the recent attacks in London and Manchester had spent time in prison. That dated back to 2003 and there was no evidence to suggest that that man had been radicalised in prison. We clearly want the strongest possible joint work between the police, the Prison Service and the probation service. I believe that what we have at the moment is strong, but there are always lessons that can be learned and improvements that can be sought. We are committed not to be complacent but to continue with vigilance and determination.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Thursday 16th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The growth in employment and the fall in unemployment should be welcomed unreservedly on both sides of the House, and it is due to the hard work and enterprise of British business in creating jobs and to the Government’s creating an economic climate in which businesses want to invest and are willing to hire people. I hope that every Member, whichever party they come from, will welcome the fact that unemployment is now at its lowest since 1975 and that employment is at its highest in our country’s history.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

As the Leader of the House knows, next week marks the second anniversary of the conflict in Yemen that has resulted in the death of 10,000 Yemeni people and brought that country to the brink of famine. The Yemeni people now face the four horsemen of the apocalypse: al-Qaeda, Daesh, starvation and airstrikes. When can we have a debate on that important subject? Britain holds the pen on Yemen so far as that matter is concerned, and it is vital that the House is updated before Yemen slides into the greatest catastrophe of this century.

[Mr Lidington]

We all share the right hon. Gentleman’s sense of horror at what has happened in Yemen. The British Government are extremely active in the international work, but it would be foolish to pretend that we have a quick and easy solution to this conflict. We continue to support the tireless efforts of the UN special envoy to broker an agreement between the warring parties inside Yemen, just as we continue to commit large sums of our overseas aid budget to relieve humanitarian suffering in Yemen. That political work and that humanitarian work will continue.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Thursday 2nd February 2017 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

In my hon. Friend’s relatively short time in the House, he has already emerged as a formidable champion not only of the Richmond constituency, but of North Yorkshire and rural businesses more generally. The position nationally is that the business rate revaluation will, overall, benefit businesses in rural areas across England, and no small property will have an increase of more than 5% from 1 April because of the transitional relief scheme. If my hon. Friend would care to write to me about the particular cases of the auction marts in his constituency, I undertake to draw them to the attention of the Communities Secretary.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

This week we spent 17 hours discussing the European Union, but we did not spend a single minute on the crisis in Yemen, where half the population are still starving. Last Sunday, President Trump authorised the first attack on al-Qaeda in Yemen, causing the death of one American soldier and 14 casualties. When can we have an update on the urgent situation in Yemen? We hold the pen at the UN on this subject. We desperately need a ceasefire. When can we know what is happening?

[Mr Lidington]

There will be questions to the Foreign Secretary on 21 February, which will provide an opportunity to raise Yemen. The right hon. Gentleman may wish to take other parliamentary opportunities available to him to focus on Yemen at greater length. The Government have never concealed the fact that trying to bring about a peaceful resolution to the conflict will be a difficult business. If there were an easy answer it would have been found by now. We continue to support the work of the UN special envoy on Yemen, who is striving ceaselessly to bring about the ceasefire that both the right hon. Gentleman and I wish to see. The Department for International Development continues to do what it can to bring humanitarian assistance to those who are in such need.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Thursday 8th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend is always assiduous in speaking up for the interests of his constituents in Stafford, but it is local authorities that are responsible for commissioning effective drug and alcohol prevention and treatment services, and those decisions are based on the authorities’ understanding of local needs. Health questions on Tuesday 20 December may give my hon. Friend the opportunity to raise his concerns directly with the Secretary of State.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I join others in congratulating the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on his award? He is a fellow Leicester City supporter and we need some good news this week after last night. May I also warmly congratulate you and Mrs Bercow, Mr Speaker, on your 14th wedding anniversary, which was yesterday? I noticed that you yawned a couple of times this morning, so it must have been a very good party last night. Perhaps that is why the Norman Shaw South lights are still on today.

The Prime Minister has returned from the Gulf, where she met various kings and other Heads of State. The issue of Yemen must have been discussed. Will the Leader of the House arrange for an early statement by the Prime Minister on her discussions with the Heads of Government on the issue of Yemen, where 80% of the population are still in desperate need of humanitarian care and assistance? We hear about Syria and Iraq a great deal in this House, but not enough about Yemen.

[Mr Lidington]

I am happy to add my congratulations to those expressed by the right hon. Gentleman, both to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and to you and Mrs Bercow, Mr Speaker.

Anybody who saw Fergal Keane’s BBC report earlier this week about the situation in Yemen will have been both shocked and moved by the plight of so many families who are suffering grievously in the way described by the right hon. Gentleman. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister did discuss Yemen, among many other issues, with the Gulf leaders during her visit this week. The Government are, of course, committing significant sums—£100 million has so far been committed for this year—to humanitarian relief in Yemen. We are also part funding, through an additional £1 million, the office of the United Nations special envoy for Yemen, because ultimately it is only through an effective political process that we will be able to bring about a resolution to this appalling conflict.

Business of the House

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

1st reading: House of Commons
Thursday 13th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I think that the Leader of the House went to school in Elstree, if memory serves me correctly.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

May I join the Leader of the House in congratulating the shadow Leader of the House on her appointment? It has taken her only six years to get to the Front Bench; I am still in the same place I was 29 years ago. This is also my first opportunity to congratulate the Leader of the House on his appointment. I first met him 40 years ago, and indeed may well have voted for him to be chairman of the Cambridge University Conservative Association all that time ago.

Last week, 140 young Yemenis were killed in Sanaa, when bombs fell on a funeral cortège. Last night, Houthi rebels fired at warships owned by the Americans in the gulf of Aden. The situation in Yemen is deteriorating. We had an important debate on Syria that was well attended in the House and granted by you, Mr Speaker, but we must not allow Yemen to be the forgotten conflict. When can we have a full debate on the situation in Yemen, before it gets even worse?

[Mr Lidington]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his kind words. I think that somewhere in my loft I have the programme card that lists him as a CUCA college secretary at some distant date in the past. He raises a really serious subject. Yemen is too often overlooked as we focus on the appalling situation in Syria. As he will, I think, know by now, he has obtained an Adjournment debate on Yemen on 18 October, which will enable him to raise some of these matters, and we have Foreign and Commonwealth Office questions on 18 October, too, which will enable him and other colleagues to raise these matters with the Secretary of State and Foreign Office Ministers. I completely share the right hon. Gentleman’s view that the Government need to continue to do all that they can to help to support the UN special envoy for Yemen and his valiant efforts to establish a credible peace process, and to devote a decent slice of our humanitarian aid budget to helping people in desperate need in that country.

International Syria Support Group: Airdrops

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Thursday 9th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

As my hon. Friend knows, we have committed very large sums—£2.3 million—to humanitarian assistance in the crisis in Syria and its neighbouring countries. We are ready to provide additional support, if the UN wants it, for an expanded airdrop operation in the besieged areas.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

As the Minister knows, the holy month of Ramadan began on Monday. There are millions of Syrian refugees in the countries immediately adjoining Syria. Will he confirm that our humanitarian efforts are continuing, so that those people are helped where they are, rather than having to make the perilous journey to the Greek or Turkish border?

[Mr Lidington]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the importance of this. After all, people in the camps moved across the Aegean last summer because the United Nations was not getting sufficient funds to maintain either food rations or hours of schooling at previously agreed levels. We are certainly committed, and we are pressing all the countries and international organisations that, at the recent London conference on Syria, committed themselves to spending more to deliver on those pledges fully and promptly.

We welcome the opposition High Negotiations Committee’s suggestion that there be a Ramadan truce inside Syria. We hope that that might be an opportunity to stop further bloodshed.

EU-Turkey Agreement

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We certainly hope that the Turkish Government will resume as soon as possible the peace process with the Turkish Kurds, which appeared to be making quite some progress up to perhaps six months ago. On my right hon. Friend’s other point, as I have said, there has been no agreement yet as to whether any particular chapter or any number of chapters of the accession negotiations should be opened. The Heads of Government will return to that next week at the European Council. There would have to be unanimous agreement by every EU member state to each and every decision to open a new chapter, or to agree that progress had been made on any element of a new stage in Turkish accession negotiations. This is not a swift process.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Under the deal, Turkey has received €3 billion, and it has asked for a further €3 billion by the end of 2018. When will those negotiations start? Given that 90% of those entering the EU illegally do so with the assistance of criminal gangs, why have the Minister and the EU not ensured that Turkey will be paid on a performance-related basis for the number of people traffickers it brings to justice?

Commission Work Programme 2015

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Monday 9th March 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Failure would be Europe failing to give priority to job creation, economic growth and competitiveness at a time when a horrifying number of people, particularly young people, are out of work in this continent and when European competitiveness is not only slipping behind that of the United States, but is at risk because of the global shift of economic power to Asia and Latin America. The answer to those economic challenges lies in Europe raising its game dramatically as far as competitiveness is concerned.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I congratulate the right hon. Gentleman most warmly on lasting the whole Parliament as Minister for Europe, which must be a first. I understand that he and the Government received this Commission work programme some time ago, so why has it take so long to get it to the Floor of the House? I might be wrong about that, so will he clarify when the Government first received it?

[Mr Lidington]

I can check the precise date and let the right hon. Gentleman know. There has been a delay, which I regret, because it has taken time to get collective agreement on this and on a number of other debates that the European Scrutiny Committee has referred. Originally, we considered having this debate in Committee, but, having discussed the issue with my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House after he had given evidence to the European Scrutiny Committee, the Government decided to have a debate on the Floor of the House. I am just glad that we are having this debate relatively early in 2015.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I will be as brief as possible, Mr Deputy Speaker.

As ever, it is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stone (Sir William Cash), who has always spoken with authority on European matters and whom I congratulate on his persistence in getting these issues debated in the House. We do not know quite how long the delay has been since the Commission decided to have its work programme—

[Mr Lidington]

The work programme was published on 17 December, the explanatory memorandum was laid before Parliament on 14 January, the European Scrutiny Committee referred it for debate on 28 January and we are debating it on 9 March. It is not as long a delay as there has, I am afraid, been with some others.

[Keith Vaz]

I am most grateful to the Minister. It might not seem long to him, but, picking up on a point made by the shadow Minister, it is good to have these matters debated in the House as quickly as possible. If Parliament is to have any influence on the Commission, it is good to have them before us as quickly as possible.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 8th April 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

There are aspects of social and economic policy, such as the working time directive, the application of which have harmed the interests of the United Kingdom, and we do indeed need to seek changes to those policies where we think they make not just the United Kingdom, but the whole of Europe less competitive than we need to be.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

No Foreign Office Ministers were present during yesterday’s debate on European matters, so will the Minister for Europe comment on the presidency text, which suggested that we would have to make a decision by June of this year as to what parts of the justice and home affairs opt-out we will opt into?

[Mr Lidington]

I read the comments in yesterday’s debate by my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary. As she told the House then, she is engaged, with my right hon. Friend the Justice Secretary, in negotiations with other member states and with the European Commission. Those talks are moving forward constructively. We hope for agreement at the earliest possible date, but there is no artificial deadline, save the one in the treaties, which is 1 December this year.

European Council

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We need to do two things. First, we need to make sure that our law and European rules distinguish clearly people who want to travel in order to work or who are genuinely able to support themselves, from those who are not able to do so—a principle of free movement to work that benefits a large number of United Kingdom citizens as well as people from other European Union countries. Secondly, when we come to look towards future enlargement of the European Union—we are some years away from any other country being ready to join the EU—we need to revisit the issue of transitional controls and ask ourselves whether simply having a specified, perhaps somewhat arbitrary, number of years after which all controls come off is the right way to address the issue. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister alluded to that and started a debate on it in his article in the Financial Times just before Christmas. On that matter and on the relationship between freedom of movement and the benefits system, we are indeed looking forward to taking discussions forward over the next year, not only with our German colleagues but with other member states.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I have known the Minister for Europe since he was 20 years of age, and he has always been very cheerful and talented, but I am afraid he is not a substitute for the Prime Minister. I agree with the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) and my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart): this is a European Council statement that ends the Lithuanian presidency and begins the Greek presidency, and it ought to have been given by the Prime Minister as soon as the House sat yesterday.

Is it now the policy of this Government to veto enlargement unless we have agreement on transitional arrangements? What exactly are we providing under presidency conclusion 41? Are we giving additional support to countries such as Greece?

[Mr Lidington]

I will have to advise my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to divert his flight to Luton airport when he next comes back from a Council meeting so that he can be sure of seeing the right hon. Gentleman in person.

I refer the right hon. Gentleman to what I said earlier, which is that when Parliament has been in recess during a European Council, successive Governments have followed the practice of giving a full written ministerial statement rather than an oral statement. His strictures should therefore be as much directed against the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) as against my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. In his time as Prime Minister, my right hon. Friend has given twice as many oral statements on EU summits as his immediate predecessor, so I do not think he has anything to apologise for.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 3rd September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I would simply add that the decision that the then Government took and Parliament supported in respect of Kosovo showed that the UK saw that its national interests were served by stability in south-east Europe and were not confined to the immediate vicinity of our territory.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

Serbia is a candidate country to join the EU, but Kosovo is only a potential candidate. Is there a way to ensure that the timetables coincide, so that both countries can be treated equally and join the EU at the same time?

[Mr Lidington]

We have consistently taken a policy towards EU enlargement that says that there should not be artificial timetables, but that each country’s progress should be determined by its success in meeting specific accession criteria. That is the right approach to take. What is important is that we make it clear that the normalisation of relations with Kosovo is integral to the entire Serbian accession process. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will welcome the fact that the Commission is about to launch negotiations for a stabilisation and association agreement with Kosovo. That is a very clear signal of its European perspective, too.

Court of Justice of the European Union

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 11th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I want to come on to the question of quality and the article 255 panel later. If my hon. Friend is dissatisfied at that point, then by all means I invite him to seek to intervene again. However, I think perhaps that it is best if I come to that passage at the appropriate time.

I was talking about the role of advocates-general. They produce their non-legally binding opinions in about half of all cases, particularly in those that raise a new point of law. There is no appeals process, of course, so the additional reasoned submissions help the Court to provide effective justice. Given that the number of cases before it continues to rise, the Government are satisfied that there is a need for additional advocates-general to process better the Court’s work load.

The opinions that advocates-general issue are a key element in the efficiency of the Court. As Sir Konrad Schiemann stated in his evidence to the House of Lords this year, advocate-general opinions significantly shorten the time occupied by judges in agreeing a judgment and improve the quality of the Court’s judgments. The opinions assist the Court with its own deliberations, because the Court can then test its own views against the detailed reasoning of the advocate-general conclusions. It is particularly useful in the EU Court because, unlike the practice in our own Supreme Court or Court of Appeal, it has to reach a consensus for its ruling—the possibility of separate dissenting opinions from different judges does not exist at the European level.

As well as contributing to the speed of judgments, advocates-general also improve the quality of justice dispensed by the Court. The opinions are detailed and so provide a greater insight into the approach ultimately taken by the Court, regardless of whether it agrees or disagrees in the final decision with the recommendation of the advocate-general. That means that those opinions are valuable in maintaining the consistency of the Court’s case law.

It is important that the Court is efficient, because of the impact that its judgments can have on British citizens and businesses operating in the European single market in particular. A classic example was the case brought by the National Farmers Union in the context of the BSE crisis—NFU v. Secrétariat Général du Gouvernement—against France’s refusal to lift the beef ban on UK imports. The Court ruled that since EU legislation laid down the necessary rules for the protection of public health, France was not entitled to rely on the public health exception in then article 30 of the treaty establishing the European Community to prevent the resumption of beef and veal imports from the UK. I am sure that the House needs no reminder that the beef industry was worth more than £430 million in exports to the British economy in 2011—the last year for which we have figures. Another recent example was the ruling of the Court in 2011 in the case of DHL v. Chronopost, which provides certainty for trademark owners on the extent to which a Community trademark owner could secure EU-wide relief based on action in only one member state.

The impact of the EU Courts is not limited to cases in which UK businesses are directly involved. The outcome of other cases can have significant benefits for the UK, directly or indirectly. For example, there was a case on whether EU legislation allowed for prescribing incentive schemes—arrangements to encourage doctors to prescribe cheaper generic medicines. Adopting the approach suggested by the British Government in their recommendations, the decision of the Court resulted in an estimated saving to our Department of Health of nearly £400 million.

Given the current number of advocates-general and the increasing work load of the Court, the individual advocates-general have been under pressure. There is no single reason why the Court’s work load has been increasing over the years. In 2012, 632 new cases were brought before it and it completed only 527. In 2011, 688 new cases were brought before it and it completed 554. These were the two busiest years so far recorded in the Court’s history. In 2012, the backlog of cases had risen to 886—up from 849 12 months before.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

First, I congratulate the Minister for Europe on his French pronunciation, which I thought was A*, as they say.

I am in favour of more judges, as are the Government, but is the Minister satisfied that having more judges will result in quicker decisions? He knows that one of our concerns is that it takes too long to get judgments. Is he satisfied that by putting these extra judges on the Court, the decisions will be handed out quicker?

[Mr Lidington]

We are talking here not about additional judges but about additional advocates-general. As I have argued, the advocates-general play an important role in assisting the judges of the Court in coming to a conclusion and in analysing the legal arguments in question. Clearly, I cannot give a 100% guarantee from this Dispatch Box, but I pray in aid the evidence of Sir Konrad Schiemann and others from the Court who have argued consistently that the provision of additional advocates-general would help them to address the backlog, in part by spreading out the preparatory work of legal analysis and the provision of a learned opinion amongst a slightly greater number of expert advocates-general than is available to the Court now.

As the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz)—one of my predecessors in this role—will know, the enlargement of the EU over the last decade following the accession of a large number of new member states has inevitably led over time to a greater number of cases being brought, simply because there are more citizens and more businesses that might be in a position to bring a case before the European Courts.

[Keith Vaz]

I am grateful to the Minister, who is generous in giving way for a second time. That is why I was interested in the fact that a Polish advocate-general was to be appointed, because one of the problems we have is that Poland has been issuing more European arrest warrants than anyone else. This may, for example, eventually lead to a backlog in cases here.

[Mr Lidington]

The right hon. Gentleman may have an opportunity tomorrow to express his views about the European arrest warrant and the attitude taken by the Polish courts. It is fair to say that Poland is as equally entitled to have its own permanent advocate-general as Spain, Italy, France, Germany or the UK. Everybody round the table accepts that there are six member states whose populations give them a certain priority when it comes to such appointments. I emphasise again that the declaration that promised the first new advocate-general to Poland was agreed by every member state, large and small.

The greater efficiency of the Court is going to require more than just the appointment of three new advocates-general. I am happy to concede that point to the right hon. Member for Leicester East. The House will be familiar with the reforms that the Court itself has introduced in the last two years, including increasing the number of judges in the Grand Chamber from 13 to 15; abolishing unnecessary procedural elements such as the requirement to read the report of the hearing in full, and thus the need to produce a report; provisions allowing for the appointment of temporary judges to the civil service tribunal; and establishing a new office of vice-president in the Court of Justice and the General Court. I am sure that there will be other opportunities for the House to debate proposed changes to the European Courts and proposed measures to secure greater efficiencies in the future.

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[Mr Lidington]

These are two separate decisions that have two different processes. We are indeed talking about a decision that is taken by unanimity. Annual budgets are what will determine the total budget of the Court for 2014 and subsequent years. Those annual budgets will have to be agreed within the ceilings to commitments and payments that are set out in the multi-annual financial framework that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and other Heads of Government negotiated in February this year, and which I hope is approaching the final stages of negotiation with the European Parliament.

Delay of the kind that my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) suggests would not get us very far. The Government’s view is that there is a persuasive case for the extra appointments to be made. The way in which EU finances are organised means that the negotiations on the annual budget will determine the total budget available to the Court. From that budget, the Court will have to meet its costs under various headings of expenditure, including this small one.

I point out to my hon. Friend that the United Kingdom is not alone in expecting the Court to absorb the costs of the additional advocates-general. We are one of a blocking minority of budget-disciplined net-contributor member states that routinely votes against increases to the EU budget. We anticipate that that like-minded group will take the same view on any request to increase the Court’s budget to accommodate the new advocates-general. The Prime Minister’s recent success at the multi-annual framework negotiations should be an indication of how strongly the Government feel about budgetary savings.

The European Scrutiny Committee also asked me to outline the Government’s view of the manner of appointing advocates-general and my view of the calibre of the likely appointees. My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset made a point about this in an earlier intervention. The article 255 panel gives an opinion on candidates’ suitability to perform the role of advocate-general. The Government consider that the panel plays a key role in making the judicial appointments process more transparent and helping to ensure that the chosen candidates are of a high quality. The UK was a key supporter of the creation of such a panel, and we have consistently supported the application of rigour in the judicial selection process. The article 255 panel is effective in its role of assessing the suitability of nominees to serve as judges and as advocates-general. To date, the panel has delivered 43 opinions, of which five were unfavourable. In each case, the opinions delivered by the panel have been followed by the Governments of member states. When the panel has been unhappy about the calibre of a particular nominee, that nominee has subsequently been withdrawn.

[Keith Vaz]

The Minister is bringing a great deal of clarity to our discussion of the motion. Will he tell us how many members of that panel are from the United Kingdom?

[Mr Lidington]

We have one member on the panel. There are members from different member states represented around the table. The panel has to be drawn from people who have the right kind of experience and expertise to make these assessments.

On the specific appointees for the additional advocates-general, we do not yet know who the candidates will be. Indeed, two of them will not be appointed until October 2015. It would not be right for me to comment on their calibre or to speculate about those individuals at this stage. That is the purpose of the expert panel.

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[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I do not know whether that is an invitation for me to cross the Floor and tickle the tummy of the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), although I would love to do it in normal circumstances. It is always a pleasure to follow him because he speaks so powerfully about these issues and studies them so carefully that he knows that a few months ago the Government promised to look carefully at the way in which the Court operates.

I will be brief because I promised the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) that I would be, and we have an opportunity to discuss other European issues tomorrow. I welcome the fact that we are having so many discussions about Europe on the Floor of the House. That takes me to my first point, which is how much I agree with the hon. Member for North East Somerset about how important it is that we discuss such issues on the Floor of the House, even though the attendance is not quite what we would have liked. [Interruption.] The Government Whip reminds me that it is the quality that counts, not the numbers. It is indeed.

The Minister said that this was not additional expenditure because it was to be found from the European Court’s existing budget and because the European Court had underspent. If indeed the European Court has underspent, I would like to know what encouragement the Government have given it to ensure that rather than appoint more advocates-general the money is used to make it more efficient. The fact that it has been unable to use the underspend to improve its efficiency is clear from the considerable time it has taken to decide a number of important cases. Will the Minister explain what steps the Government have taken over the last 12 months to ensure that the Court becomes more efficient, because it has more money available to do so?

I fully support Poland getting the new advocate-general seat. As the Minister’s predecessor, I was involved in the enlargement process. We always thought, and thought correctly, that, given its population, Poland would want to take its place as one of the big countries of Europe. I am glad that we are sticking to the agreement that we made that Poland should have this additional post. However, I am not sure that the Minister told us who would get the other two vacancies, and how that would be decided. If they are up for grabs, so to speak, and bearing in mind the importance of the enlargement process, perhaps it would be a good idea, rather than offer them to other countries that are already represented on the Court, to offer them to countries that have joined because of the enlargement process. One of the most important outcomes of enlargement is that we make representation in the European Union wider.

[Mr Lidington]

I can give the right hon. Gentleman some clarity on this point. The proposal is that the remaining two new advocates-general should become part of the normal rotation process for the nomination of advocates-general among those member states that are not entitled to a permanent advocate-general of their own. In other words, it is all of the soon-to-be 28 member states of the EU minus the biggest six countries, once these new measures are in place. We would expect, if the current arrangements for rotation continue, the two new advocates-general in 2015 to come from the Czech Republic and from Denmark.

[Keith Vaz]

I thank the Minister for that clarification and look forward to ensuring that that expectation is met.

My final point relates to the speed of the Court. The hon. Member for North East Somerset wants the Court to slow down, because he believes that speeding it up will result in greater integration. I am in favour of speeding it up, which is why I support the proposal for move advocates-general, not to ensure that we have a federalist Europe, which I oppose, but to ensure that the decisions they have to take are dealt with in a timely fashion. The delay is inexcusable. It should be considered very carefully. I am disappointed that the Minister could not assure the House that, as a result of the decision to appoint three additional advocates-general, the Court’s decisions would be speeded up, because of course he has no evidence to suggest that appointing another three will make the decisions come through any quicker—they will take their time to do what they have to do. I would like to see decisions made much more quickly in a whole host of areas, and primarily in one area that I believe is very important. If decisions have to be made as part of the legal process, they should be made as quickly as possible, because that benefits all parties.

I will end where I began by agreeing with the hon. Member for North East Somerset: it is so important that we discuss these issues on the Floor of the House. The Government should never take it for granted that, because there are so few Members present and because Opposition Front Benchers agree with them on an issue, they will never be challenged on one of these motions. There should always be an expectation that Parliament will decide to do something different, which at least we have the chance to do. I warmly welcome that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

In this country we operate on the basis of making a judgment, not on speculation about applications, but on actual applications for visas. We have a presumption that someone against whom there is evidence of human rights abuses will not be admitted to the United Kingdom, and that is the policy that we intend to continue.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

T6. Relations between Britain and Yemen are very good, so when can we restore direct flights between Sana’a and London, and allow Yemenis to apply in Sana’a for a visa to come to Britain, rather than have to go to Abu Dhabi or Cairo?

Commission Work Programme 2013

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Monday 7th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Lidington]

I ask the right hon. Gentleman to allow me to continue. Perhaps he could try to intervene later; I will seek to give way to him then.

Overall, we agree with the Commission that the No. 1 task facing the European Union is to tackle the economic crisis, return Europe to growth and enable its member states to compete in the global economy. Globalisation means that the EU faces increased competition from rapidly developing countries outside Europe, but it also brings us opportunities to build new markets for our products and services. To meet those challenges, the European Union should prioritise the promotion of trade, within the EU and outside it. It should seek to free private enterprise and enable businesses to compete, and it should support those priorities by ensuring that the limits of EU power are respected. I would therefore like to highlight three cross-cutting themes that are of the highest importance to the Government: growth, better regulation, and safeguarding the interests of the United Kingdom. I shall deal first with growth.

[Mr Lidington]

I think that this country’s decision to stay outside the euro was right. I am certainly not in the least tempted to see the United Kingdom abolish sterling and participate in the euro, but I say to the hon. Gentleman that we, as a democratically elected House, have to respect the sovereign decisions of other European democracies that have chosen, for reasons of their own that they have explained publicly, to commit themselves to the single currency project.

[Keith Vaz]

Will the Minister explain to the House how the work programme will fit in with the principles of the presidencies that will take place this year? As he knows, Ireland has taken over the presidency, and has presidency priorities. In six months’ time, another country will take over. How will that fit in with what the Commission intends to do?

[Mr Lidington]

The way this works, as the right hon. Gentleman will know from when he held my position, is that the Commission, under the treaties, has the right to initiate legislation, but even in the post-Lisbon world, the rotating six-monthly presidency chairs the various sectoral Council meetings and working groups, and has considerable influence in determining the relative priorities given to particular measures. A presidency may choose to try to fast-track a particular measure, and use its diplomatic resources to seek early agreement on it; it may place another measure, about which it cares less, on the back-burner. There is negotiation between the presidency and the Commission in that respect.

The Government have long argued for the Commission to come forward with measures to help boost growth, through agreements with important trading partners, and by strengthening and deepening the single market. I am sure that the House will welcome the news that, last month, the European Union successfully concluded a free trade agreement with Singapore, which will create new opportunities for United Kingdom businesses, particularly in the export of services, green technologies, automotive, electronic and pharmaceutical items, and medical devices. There are also opportunities to bid for public procurement contracts in Singapore.

We will continue to work on many more such agreements. I hope that it will be possible to conclude the proposed EU free trade agreement with Canada in the coming weeks, to open negotiations between the EU and the United States by the summer, and to take forward free trade negotiations with Japan. We will also continue to support efforts to achieve EU free trade agreements with India, Malaysia and other countries.

European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Bill [Lords]

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Monday 10th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

It has been our position since the proposal was first made in autumn 2010 that such an amendment of article 136 would give eurozone member states firmer constitutional and legal certainty than if they simply proceeded to establish the permanent stability mechanism without recourse to such a treaty amendment.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I congratulate the Minister on surviving the reshuffle. He is well on his way to being the longest serving Minister for Europe for some time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keith Vaz]

Certainly since my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) held the post.

I should have had this point clarified on Second Reading. Will the Minister confirm that none of the funds that we are talking about will in any way affect the ability of the European Union to support new member countries such as Croatia? Will he clarify that this matter is completely separate from and has nothing to do with enlargement?

[Mr Lidington]

Yes, I give the right hon. Gentleman that firm assurance. This is nothing to do with enlargement. In effect, the treaty amendment provides a bridging clause between the existing European Union treaties and the separate intergovernmental European stability mechanism treaty that is being reached by the 17 members of the eurozone. It is that intergovernmental treaty that will set out in detail how the stability mechanism for the eurozone will operate.

Judiciary and Fundamental Rights

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 22nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

Yes, I certainly support what the hon. Gentleman has said. Labour and Conservative Governments alike have consistently taken the position that we support Turkey’s ambitions to join the European Union. That accession process has helped to drive both political and economic reform within Turkey, and we want to see further progress being made at the earliest possible date.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I completely agree with what the Minister says. There has been cross-party support for the enlargement process, but when I held his job more than a decade ago there were 12 candidate countries beating at the door of the EU and asking to be admitted. At that stage, quite a lot wanted to join, so why does he think so few countries now want to join the EU?

[Mr Lidington]

I bow to the right hon. Gentleman’s experience, because I think he was quite a long-serving Minister for Europe. Part of the answer to his question is that there are now rather fewer European countries outside the European Union than was once the case. However, one thing that is common to the political leaderships of all the countries in the western Balkans is an ambition to become part of the European family of nations. We in the UK sometimes underestimate that strength of feeling. They regard membership of the EU as setting the seal on their democratic development and on the restoration of their place in the European family.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Lidington]

I will move on to that in a moment, because we certainly agree that Croatia has a lot more to do. I do not pretend that everything is fine and dandy, because more needs to be done, but I am saying to my hon. Friend and to the House that Croatia’s continued progress since the closure of negotiations early this year encourages us to be confident in the political resolution of Croatia’s Government and opposition parties to take forward compliance with European standards with the necessary determination and speed.

[Keith Vaz]

I am grateful to the Minister, who is being extremely generous in giving way to so many Members. One concern that we must address is the tendency for the focus from Brussels suddenly to disappear when a country joins the EU. A lot of time is spent negotiating the acquis, but once countries join no one seems to bother about them. Does he agree that it is important that the monitoring process continues even though those countries are full members of the EU and that there should be some kind of buddy principle that allows some countries to assist others in the process of fully integrating into the EU?

[Mr Lidington]

I recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s point, and describing it as a buddy system makes it sound quite cuddly and attractive, but I would not want to make routine the experience of the mechanism for co-operation and verification that was invented for the accession of Romania and Bulgaria. Whether one talks with political leaders in those countries or in some of the older member states, one finds a common recognition that that was a very unhappy way for those negotiations to turn out and that it left those two countries feeling that they are being treated as second-class members, even though their accession treaties have been negotiated, signed and ratified by everyone. It has left some of the older member states feeling that the decision to allow Romania and Bulgaria to accede was agreed without all the standards being adequately met.

The introduction of chapter 23, which was used for the first time with Croatia, has been a significant step forward in trying to address up front, before we get to the end of accession negotiations, let alone ratification of an accession treaty, the problems that have persisted with Romania and Bulgaria that we seek to address through the mechanism for co-operation and verification.

The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) might already know that we are discussing some interesting proposals from Commissioner Füle, the Enlargement Commissioner, to develop a new approach towards enlargement that would seek deliberately to front-load some of the most difficult elements of an accession negotiation precisely so that an accession state not only can implement challenging reforms, but has time to develop a track record so that we can see the results of those reforms, rather than those being addressed at the last stage of negotiations when questions are inevitably asked about whether the reform will be sustained over a long period of time. It is important that we learn from experience. I do not want us to repeat in future cases the experience of Romania and Bulgaria.

The Commission’s report also noted substantial progress in the fight against corruption, including continued political commitment and a number of further investigations launched and indictments and court rulings issued, including at high levels. The most high-profile case, the trial of former Prime Minister Ivo Sanader for diversion of funds, opened in November this year. However, I want to emphasise that the Government completely accept that Croatia still has more to do. A number of judicial reforms are still at a very early stage. The long-standing issue of case backlogs in old civil cases and enforcement decisions remains a problem, although numbers have decreased. We will be looking for rapid progress once the new enforcement law and public enforcement agency become operational in January 2012.

Although the handling of domestic war crimes cases has improved, the issue of impunity needs to be thoroughly addressed. We welcome the adoption of a new strategy on impunity that recognises the existence of uninvestigated and unprosecuted crimes and the creation of new dedicated specialist chambers for war crimes trials. In June, criminal charges were raised in 84 such cases. Continued full co-operation with the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia is also particularly important. We constantly stress that to Croatia and fellow EU member states and remain in contact with Chief Prosecutor Brammertz, whom I met a couple of weeks ago in the Hague, in order to ensure that we are fully up to date with his thinking about the co-operation of the Croatian authorities with ICTY.

We welcome the Croatian Parliament’s adoption on 21 October of a declaration on the promotion of European values in south-east Europe, which states a firm commitment from Croatia that bilateral issues such as border disputes must not obstruct the accession of candidate countries to the EU from the beginning of their accession process.

Britain has been helping Croatia to tackle many of the concerns relating to outstanding reform. If the House wishes, and I catch your eye, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will be happy during the concluding remarks to address that in more detail or to write to interested Members. Bilateral assistance currently runs at nearly £500,000 a year, carefully targeted in particular on some of the judicial and rule-of-law reforms where outstanding work is still needed.

In conclusion, Croatia has made great progress over the course of its accession negotiations in meeting the rigorous closing benchmarks set for each negotiating chapter. The United Kingdom was also successful in securing robust pre-accession monitoring that will enable this House to maintain a close watch on the further progress that we still need to see. It was on this basis that the Government were able to agree to close negotiations with Croatia and agree a target date of 1 July 2013 for EU accession. Croatia still has more to do over and above that required by closing benchmarks, but the Commission has reported continued progress since the closure of negotiations and we expect Croatia to continue to make swift progress towards finalising its full alignment with EU requirements before 1 July 2013. We have heard from the Commission within the past few days that it will propose that the draft decision on Croatian accession will be agreed at the General Affairs Council on 5 December to enable the treaty of accession to be signed by Heads of State and Government at the European Council on 9 December. I shall be writing imminently to the European Scrutiny Committees of this House and the House of Lords to set out the Government’s approach to that draft decision.

Croatia is a friend of the United Kingdom, but we shall be a candid, honest friend, who will monitor closely Croatia’s evolving track record and speak openly to our Croatian friends about the work that still needs doing.

We expect the Croatian Government to act rapidly to implement the remaining necessary reforms, and her continued commitment to reform provides an excellent example to the other countries of the western Balkans in pursuing their European future.

Croatian accession will represent the achievement of an historic goal not only for Croatia, but for the European Union. The enlargement process has encouraged and supported reform and transformation in Croatia, a country now only a few small steps from being a fully prepared member of the EU.

We now look to Croatia to take those last remaining steps, by which it will have fully met the strict requirements for entry to the European Union, and I commend the motion to the House.

Yemen

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Friday 1st April 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) on securing this debate. Anyone who heard him speak will know of the importance of the issues he has brought before the House, most obviously to the prosperity and well-being of the people of Yemen, but also, as he rightly said, to the security of the United Kingdom and the wider global community. Anyone who listened to the right hon. Gentleman’s speech will also have been left in no doubt about the depth of his knowledge of Yemen and his deep and abiding affection for the country and its people.

The UK has a long-standing relationship with Yemen, and in recent years we have, under successive Governments, sought to work with the Government of Yemen and the international community to bring about greater stability, prosperity and democracy in Yemen. The current situation in the country is a cause of deep concern, and I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to this debate.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned at the start of his speech the advice the Government are giving to British nationals currently living in Yemen, and it will be of assistance to the House if I make it clear again today that we changed our travel advice again earlier this week, and we are now advising British nationals that they should leave Yemen now, while commercial carriers are still flying. Because of the violence and political turbulence in Yemen and the dangerous security situation, the ability of the British Government to provide consular assistance is very limited. If British citizens do not leave, it is highly unlikely that the British Government would be able to evacuate them or to provide consular assistance if the situation worsens further. We are therefore strongly advising British nationals to plan on that basis.

Recent protests have brought into sharp focus the economic, political and social challenges that have faced Yemen for some time. The Yemeni protestors have raised their voices in a peaceful manner to demand a more open political system, and their bravery has been apparent to everybody. It is clear to us that the time has come for political change in Yemen. As the right hon. Gentleman said, the Yemeni people have made it clear that they want greater political participation, greater respect for human rights, and peace and prosperity. The United Kingdom Government support those aspirations.

President Ali Abdullah Saleh has led Yemen for more than 30 years and has steered his country through substantial change during that time, not least the unification of the two Yemeni republics. He has confirmed that he will not seek to run again as President of the Republic of Yemen, although the protestors are calling for a more immediate exit from power. I wish to make it clear to the House that it is not for the United Kingdom to determine how Yemen should be governed or who should be its President. The exact terms of the transition have to be worked out in Yemen, but we believe that it should be carried out on the basis of a credible and inclusive dialogue, that it should be peaceful and orderly, and that it needs to command the support of all sides in that country. The fundamental values of democracy, respect for human rights and the rule of law should be upheld, and we stand ready to do what we can to support dialogue and transition, whether bilaterally or with our partners in the international Friends of Yemen group.

In response to the right hon. Gentleman’s final comments, I would say that the Foreign Secretary, Baroness Ashton on behalf of the European Union, and their counterparts in the United States are in close touch with the neighbouring countries of the Gulf on how best to offer assistance to the Government of Yemen. Sometimes we make clear in public what we are doing, but sometimes these contacts are made in private, for reasons that he will appreciate. Our judgment is that private messages are best at the moment and that a public mission would risk moving the focus from the responsibility of both the Government and opposition in Yemen to talk to each other, to whether an international mission with a high public profile would or would not succeed. Although I take the right hon. Gentleman’s proposal seriously and will ensure that the Foreign Secretary is made aware of it, we think that providing detailed and frequent support in private to those who have the responsibility to ensure transformation is the right way forward.

The violence that we have seen in recent weeks is shocking and unacceptable. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has made it clear on a number of occasions that we need to help find a way to reduce tension and avoid confrontation. All that violence does is undermine trust further, and that trust is essential if there is to be a successful negotiation and a period of political transition. As President Saleh has acknowledged, the Government of Yemen have a responsibility to protect protestors and uphold the rule of law, and that needs to be done with full regard to Yemen’s international human rights obligations.

As the right hon. Gentleman rightly said, violence and the political crisis in Yemen take place against a background of a serious social and economic situation in that country. Yemen has a large and fast-growing population, huge unemployment, significant rates of child malnutrition, and rapidly declining oil and fresh water resources. As he said, more than 40% of Yemenis live on less than $2 a day, and the inflation in world food commodity prices is hitting even wealthy Yemenis hard. That is happening to such an extent that major international non-governmental organisations are seriously concerned about the potential for a significant humanitarian disaster in Yemen in the coming months. Government revenues there are decreasing and Government expenditure is increasing. The economy is in serious decline and the current political instability threatens to make an already fragile situation much worse.

Yemen and its prosperity matter to us all, because any worsening of the instability, terrorist activity and poverty will have a detrimental effect on security within Yemen, in the region and globally. Therefore, the Government’s strategy is to support Yemeni action to create a more secure, stable and economically sustainable Yemen. A number of different policy themes interact in that regard. Yes, we are helping the Yemeni Government to provide basic services for their people, such as health care and education. We have been supporting work to develop economic opportunities in that country to create jobs and generate income, most obviously through the Department for International Development’s programmes. We have supported work to build the capacity of the Yemeni Government to tackle the threat from terrorism and, within a strict framework, we have provided training to select parts of the Yemeni security forces.

Our strategy acknowledges that developing the capacity of a state cannot be just a short-term goal. It can take months or years and requires a long-term and serious commitment by both partners and donors. In addition to the assistance we provide in that area, the United Kingdom, through DFID, supports the very poorest in Yemen through the social fund for development. We are one of the biggest bilateral aid donors to Yemen and our development partnership arrangement sets out our development commitment through to 2017. Between 2008 and 2011 alone, DFID will have provided £105 million to support development in Yemen.

The right hon. Gentleman spoke about the Friends of Yemen group. I am happy to pay tribute to the previous Government’s initiative in establishing that group and of course the current Government have sought to follow that through. Like the right hon. Gentleman, we were disappointed when, at the request of the Yemeni Government, the planned meeting in Riyadh in Saudi Arabia was postponed. We very much hope that it can be rescheduled as soon as possible, but the timetable for that would very much depend on what happens politically in Yemen.

[Keith Vaz]

The Minister has set out the position very clearly as far as aid is concerned, but the emphasis now is on the critical nature of what is happening at the moment. Given that there is the Friends of Yemen group and that there is a structure, does he not feel that an emergency meeting with the emphasis less on development aid and more on protecting and helping the country to stay stable would be helpful? The critical point now is not how much aid we can give Yemen in future but how we can save people now.

[Mr Lidington]

I take seriously the right hon. Gentleman’s point, but as I said earlier, the meeting was postponed at the request of the Yemenis themselves. It is clearly important that they engage in such a meeting with friends and neighbours. We have not forgotten about Yemen because the friends group is not meeting: we are talking to the Saudis and other neighbours in the Gulf Co-operation Council about the best way forward to try to bring about reconciliation and political transformation in Yemen and about the way in which the regional and international community can help Yemen with development and enhancing its political stability once that period of political transition is over. That work is continuing whether or not there is a formal meeting of the Friends of Yemen group.

[Keith Vaz]

The Minister knows how important these matters are, and the problem is that the situation is different to that in Libya, where the successor Government will be the Libyan people in one form or another. The successor Government to President Saleh, unless we intervene now, will be al-Qaeda, and once it is in there will be no shifting it. I would like the emphasis that has been put on Libya to be put on Yemen, and I would like that to happen as soon as possible. These bilateral discussions are great, and they will always continue as part of Foreign and Commonwealth Office life, but there is urgency now.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Tuesday 15th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

We very much hope so. My right hon. Friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have been playing a leading part in those discussions at European level. We think it is time for the EU to carry out an urgent and comprehensive overhaul of its partnership policies with regard to the southern Mediterranean counties. We need to link those much more closely to economic and political reform in that region.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

One of the priorities of the presidency must surely be the securing of the EU border. Has the Minister had any discussions with the Hungarian Foreign Minister about the deployment by Frontex of a rapid border intervention team—RABIT —on the border between Greece and Turkey? He will know that 90% of illegal immigration comes through that border, and we need to ensure that the RABIT force is protected and extended, in order to give Greece as much support as possible.

[Mr Lidington]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point. There are real problems on the Greco-Turkish border that affect migration into the whole of the EU. This is a matter to which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and my hon. Friend the Minister for Immigration are giving a high priority in their conversations with their European counterparts.

European Union Bill

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Monday 24th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I am going to stick to my figure of 10. It does not make much difference to the principle of the argument, but I believe my figure is accurate. My hon. Friend rightly made a point about problems after some of those accessions, but that makes the case for member states to insist on the rigorous application of the accession criteria before accession takes place, rather than allowing countries in before they are fully ready and equipped and then arguing about it afterwards.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

The Minister is absolutely right on this point and my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) is wrong, because in the case in question the enlargement of the European Union passed through the House unanimously. The only occasion when a matter such as enlargement should go to the British people is when the House decides that it should go to them.

[Mr Lidington]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for that.

I wish now to discuss the significance test. New clause 9 would submit all referendum criteria, all treaty changes and all uses of article 48(6) to a significance test, but even the narrow use of the significance test, as set out in the Bill, has been the subject of a great deal of concern, so I wish to be clear about what it means for the Bill as it stands and to explain why it is needed. The significance test can be used only in very specific circumstances. Clause 4 identifies 13 instances when a treaty change transferring competence or power to the EU would attract a referendum. The significance test applies not to 13, but to two of those instances. Moreover, it can be used only when a decision under article 48(6) is being taken. It cannot be used for treaty amendments adopted under the ordinary revision procedure.

Article 48(6) decisions could seek to confer on a European institution a power to require this country to act in a particular way, or to impose sanctions on the UK for our failure to act in a particular way. Although that could be done only within existing areas of competence, and not within new ones, it would enable EU institutions or bodies to use those existing competences in a different way. A future proposal under article 48(6) to do either of these things would, as a matter of general principle, require a referendum to be held.

Let me give the Committee a hypothetical example. There might be a proposal to allow an EU agency to impose sanctions on a national regulator or to act in a way that compelled British businesses to do something that would increase significantly the burdens on British business and harm the competitiveness of this country. That sort of decision would, in my view, be classed as significant and should attract the referendum lock, but there might equally be instances in the future—my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham was right—where article 48(6) might be used to give a new power to a body in an area that is not significant to this country. For example, it might require a national regulator or some other British organisation to provide an EU agency with a set of statistics annually.

Let us consider, for example, the European Maritime Safety Agency. It was set up to provide member states of the Commission with technical and scientific assistance in the field of maritime safety and the prevention of pollution by ships. If, in the future, it was decided to change the treaty so that that agency could issue binding directions to national regulators and that that would be a permanent cession of authority and powers, that would be a significant power within the meaning of clause 4(1)(i) or (j). If, however, the proposal was to change the treaty to allow the agency to require national regulators to provide it with an annual digest of statistics, I do not think that that would be a significant power under the Bill. That is why we have provided for the significance test.

Amendments 3 and 5 would remove the significance condition from the Bill, so it would in practice require a national referendum on such things as the provision of statistics. I think that most people in this country would accept that such technical changes should be left to the Government, under the scrutiny of Parliament, who of course would still have to authorise the minor treaty change through primary legislation—a formal Act of Parliament subject to detailed scrutiny and capable of amendment in either House. In all those instances the proposal would need to be thoroughly analysed and we have ensured that any use of the significance test would be subject to strong scrutiny and accountability.

When he spoke about amendment 11, my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere took a different approach to parliamentary scrutiny. His amendment would require a Minister to seek parliamentary approval not to hold a referendum on the basis of the significance test, through both Houses agreeing to a motion without amendment. I have a great deal of sympathy for where my hon. Friend is coming from and I do not for one moment challenge his passionate commitment to the duty of Parliament to hold Ministers to account or his wish to see the powers of Parliament over European Union business and ministerial decisions on Europe strengthened and improved. If I felt that his amendment would secure that objective better than the provisions in the Bill, I would be with him on the detail. However, I want to explain why I do not believe that it does that.

First, when a Minister makes the statement required by clause 5 on whether a proposed amendment requires a referendum, they must give reasons why the proposed change does or does not meet the significance test. Those reasons will need to refer to the criteria set out in clause 4, so their reasoning will need to be clearly set out. There is a first measure of protection already in the Bill.

Secondly, the Bill ensures that every proposed treaty change, regardless of whether the significance test applies, would require the approval of Parliament through primary legislation. That would allow sufficient time for Parliament to scrutinise the use of the test to legislate for a referendum if it deemed such a provision necessary.

Thirdly, there is the risk that having a separate debate on significance in the way that amendment 11 proposes could weaken Parliament’s scrutiny of the primary legislation that the Bill requires. That point was made by my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) in an intervention. In view of the dynamic of the House of Commons, it would be tempting for a Government who wanted to rush through a particular treaty change to schedule an early debate on the motion not to require a referendum and then, when the ratification Bill came forward and Members of Parliament had had the opportunity to look at the detail, perhaps consider the evidence of a Select Committee, and listen to what outside experts had to say on the matter, they would find their Whips coming up and saying, “We’ve already voted on this. You personally went through our Lobby to support the proposition that a referendum was not required. How can you change your mind and try to insert the requirement for a referendum at this stage?”

The unintended consequence of amendment 11 could be to strengthen the hand of the business managers and to weaken the independence of judgment that Members would be able to exercise under the requirement for primary legislation laid out in the Bill. Amendment 11 would also weaken any prospect of a successful judicial review. Judicial review is not a panacea, but the House should see it as a significant step to give the citizen the right to challenge a Minister’s decision, where that decision is irrational or unreasonable.

There are two important distinctions between what we are proposing here and what we saw in the Wheeler case, to which a number of Members referred in the debate. First, the Minister has to give reasons, and give reasons by reference to the Bill. That opens up the possibility that a court might wish to consider a challenge to the reasonableness of the Minister’s decision. Secondly, whereas in Mr Wheeler’s case the Court was invited to judge the wording of the constitutional treaty against the wording of the treaty of Lisbon and declined to do so, in this case we are talking about a possible invitation to the Court to judge the actions and decision of a Government Minister in his Executive capacity against the statutory duties on that Minister set out in the language of the Bill. Those are important distinctions.

Tunisia

Debate between David Lidington and Keith Vaz

Monday 17th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

As I said earlier, the advice that I have received up to now is that the risk of violent extremism to which my hon. Friend refers is not as great as has been made out in some parts of the media. It is much more an uprising by people who have been frustrated by many years of political repression and whose feelings have been aggravated by economic hardship. Nevertheless, I assure him that the British Government will be alert to any risk that extremist groups could try to seize an advantage from what has happened in Tunisia, and we will take whatever steps we can to ensure that they are unable to do so.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for the reassurance that he has given about constituents who are in Tunisia and welcome the fact that he has emphasised the EU. Tunisia, of course, is part of the EUROMED process, and a number of projects have been sanctioned by the EU concerning migration, development and policing. As the hon. Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns) said, we might be unable to resolve the current issues there, but can we be ready with plan B, so that we can continue with those initiatives, which are important to the whole of the north Africa rim?

[Mr Lidington]

The right hon. Gentleman is correct to say that those are important issues not only for Tunisia, but for every country along the north African coast. Certainly, when I have talked with ambassadors from those countries in London, they have expressed concern about the risk that not only extremist groups, but those involved in people trafficking, drug trafficking and other forms of organised crime might use their territories as through-routes to try to penetrate Europe. We want to work with those countries, which are independent sovereign states, to ensure that they are able to improve their governance in the way the right hon. Gentleman describes. It is in the interests of Europe and of those north African countries that they are able to do so and move forward on the basis of greater respect for human rights and enduring political reforms.