Wales Bill

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Monday 11th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Jones]

As a matter of pure interest, which of the current bank holidays would the hon. Gentleman propose to dispense with in order to create one on St David’s day?

[Mr Williams]

I remember the right hon. Gentleman making that point in a previous Westminster Hall debate. I am not going to make that judgment because it is for the National Assembly. When the Under-Secretary responded to my debate, he talked about a review, but regrettably its results were parked in the proverbial long grass and are now in a cul-de-sac. This is a matter not for me, the right hon. Gentleman or the rest of us sitting on these green Benches, but for colleagues and friends in the Cynulliad.

[Mr Jones]

I recall that on the previous occasion this was considered, any change to the bank holidays proved deeply unpopular with the tourist industry in Wales.

[Mr Williams]

Without digging into the depths of the argument, I have made the position clear. Let the tourist industry make its representations to Ministers in our Cynulliad in Cardiff, not here. Let us not sit here, viceroy-like, dictating to the National Assembly. We should let the Assembly have that discussion with the tourist operatives, with the responsible Minister engaged with them, and then it can make the decision. It is a decision not for the right hon. Gentleman and me, but for our friends in the Assembly. That is what devolution means.

I want briefly to talk about policing. Silk said that:

“policing and related areas of community safety and crime prevention should be devolved”.

I must describe—I do not know whether Chatham House rules applied to our discussions in Gwydyr House, but they probably did—the genuine shock and anguish that was felt when we reported back on this matter to our National Assembly colleagues. Two of us from each party were sitting in an office somewhere in this House that I had never been to where big board meetings happen. There was shock and dismay that matters of youth justice were not, as recommended by the Silk commission, followed through in the St David’s day document. I understand how the Government have reached this position, and how the process was set in train when they talked to their colleagues in the Ministry of Justice, but that does not negate the case. Youth justice, of all issues, given its links between education, skills and health as part of rehabilitation, was not followed through in a devolutionary way.

I will now conclude my remarks, although such is the list of reservations that we could go on for hours. I hope that the Minister will respond to some of the concerns that many of us still have about the list, slightly shortened though it is.

Draft Wales Bill

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Mr David Jones]

I do not know if the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that all those issues should be devolved to Wales. I notice he mentioned gender recognition. Would that mean that someone could be a man in England and a woman in Wales?

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman, if only because he has given me a chance to catch my breath. Would seeing those powers controlled in Wales mean the unravelling of our constitution and the end of the Union? Should we have not started from the principle that what is devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland should be devolved to Wales? Better still, if one believes in subsidiarity, should we have not started with the principle that all powers are devolved, and it is for the Secretary of State and Westminster to argue the case for reserving them to Westminster?

However, we are where we are and we have this Bill. The hon. Member for Wrexham, who is not in his place, talked about the need for a constitutional convention and the right hon. Member for Clwyd West said he was open to the case for that. He described the Bill as a “bolt-on”. That and the devolutionary drift in other parts of the UK points to the need to look at such matters in the round. My party has always believed in a federal Britain, with home rule for Wales, and we need a constitutional convention to look into that.

Some have asserted that there should be a pause and, on balance, I agree. Too many concerns have been expressed, as the Select Committee will reveal at some point in the future. The question is: how much of a pause should there be? If a pause means that we lose a legislative slot for the Wales Bill to carry forward devolution, I would be immensely concerned. However, the issues on which the Secretary of State has openly reflected, such as looking again at the necessity test, or whatever form of words we use for that, ministerial consents and the scale of the list of reservations, are a big body of work that needs to be done urgently.

I would not say that the Secretary of State was disdainful when I talked about the need for robust dialogue with Assembly colleagues, but that dialogue needs to happen. I was privy to discussions between Westminster MPs representing the four parties and our Assembly colleagues and given the level of concern expressed since the draft Bill was published, that needs addressing. There are rumours of delays to the suspected date of Second Reading. I do not expect to get a date at the end of the Committee, but we need to be mindful of that and of the work that needs to be done.

The Secretary of State said that he wants the matters to be settled. The issue of a distinct jurisdiction has gained much traction in discussions, with various questions fired around the Committee today asking people to define what that means. I am not a lawyer—perhaps that is obvious—so I cannot give that definition.

Draft Wales Bill

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 3rd February 2016 General Committees

[Mr David Jones]

I do not know if the hon. Gentleman is suggesting that all those issues should be devolved to Wales. I notice he mentioned gender recognition. Would that mean that someone could be a man in England and a woman in Wales?

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman, if only because he has given me a chance to catch my breath. Would seeing those powers controlled in Wales mean the unravelling of our constitution and the end of the Union? Should we have not started from the principle that what is devolved to Scotland and Northern Ireland should be devolved to Wales? Better still, if one believes in subsidiarity, should we have not started with the principle that all powers are devolved, and it is for the Secretary of State and Westminster to argue the case for reserving them to Westminster?

However, we are where we are and we have this Bill. The hon. Member for Wrexham, who is not in his place, talked about the need for a constitutional convention and the right hon. Member for Clwyd West said he was open to the case for that. He described the Bill as a “bolt-on”. That and the devolutionary drift in other parts of the UK points to the need to look at such matters in the round. My party has always believed in a federal Britain, with home rule for Wales, and we need a constitutional convention to look into that.

Some have asserted that there should be a pause and, on balance, I agree. Too many concerns have been expressed, as the Select Committee will reveal at some point in the future. The question is: how much of a pause should there be? If a pause means that we lose a legislative slot for the Wales Bill to carry forward devolution, I would be immensely concerned. However, the issues on which the Secretary of State has openly reflected, such as looking again at the necessity test, or whatever form of words we use for that, ministerial consents and the scale of the list of reservations, are a big body of work that needs to be done urgently.

I would not say that the Secretary of State was disdainful when I talked about the need for robust dialogue with Assembly colleagues, but that dialogue needs to happen. I was privy to discussions between Westminster MPs representing the four parties and our Assembly colleagues and given the level of concern expressed since the draft Bill was published, that needs addressing. There are rumours of delays to the suspected date of Second Reading. I do not expect to get a date at the end of the Committee, but we need to be mindful of that and of the work that needs to be done.

The Secretary of State said that he wants the matters to be settled. The issue of a distinct jurisdiction has gained much traction in discussions, with various questions fired around the Committee today asking people to define what that means. I am not a lawyer—perhaps that is obvious—so I cannot give that definition.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 14th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I agree entirely that the Gobowen hospital is a world-renowned centre of excellence, and I am concerned about what the hon. Gentleman says. I am very happy to meet him and would be grateful if he contacted my office.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

13. Access to cross-border health services is not restricted to the border areas, but access to specialist services is relevant to my constituents. The protocols are not working at the moment. In his discussions with Ministers, will the Secretary of State ensure that cross-border protocols are working for specialist services in particular?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is entirely right. Key to this issue is the cross-border protocol. As a consequence of last week’s debate, I have written to both my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and the Welsh Health Minister, and we will see whether we can improve that protocol.

Wales Bill

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Monday 31st March 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Williams]

Sorry, not quite, but the vote was much better than before. I think there was a bit of a swing of opinion. We certainly welcome the fact that people along the borders voted in bigger numbers for this, although I stand corrected. I am still slightly shocked by the glowing appraisal my hon. Friend the Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) gave of Liberal Democrat policy on federalism; he commended us on that. However, I take on board the point made by the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones).

[Mr David Jones]

It would appear that my hon. Friend’s sole, or at least principal, concern about the Bill is the issue of the referendum, but does he agree that when we are talking about whether Wales should have a different tax basis from the rest of the country, that is something that concerns every resident of Wales and people should have their say on that?

[Mr Williams]

I do agree with that. I should, perhaps, make it clear that I was warning about referendum fatigue in the future. I have signed up to the Silk package and he has made that recommendation very clearly, as has my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. We must be very mindful of that fatigue in the future, however.

The hon. Member for Islwyn talked about the Blackwood high street survey that he unofficially—or maybe officially—makes when he is back in his constituency. He said that nobody raises these issues. I would just say that there is a case to be made in respect of our business community. People come to talk to me about business rates and the lack of clarity on responsibility over business rates, and there is a case for fully devolving them to the National Assembly. Over the past nine years I have dealt with many cases involving this subject. I can think of many constituents who have come to me struggling with issues about where responsibility lies. Therefore, I am particularly pleased that decisions will, because of this Bill, be made closer to Wales and that rates can be more responsive to the needs of Welsh businesses.

The Federation of Small Businesses in Wales agrees that businesses in Wales are facing the most onerous business rates of any constituent nation of the UK. We do not have many options available to us, such as using different multipliers for different-sized firms, and it hits our small businesses hard. Small businesses are the backbone of the Welsh, and particularly the Ceredigion, economy.

The Select Committee addressed that issue. Now that the Government have made their position on it clear, I would like to know how they intend to take forward their policy on devolving business rates completely. We need a clear settlement of business rates, which gives politicians the incentive to be creative on business rate policy and to be accountable for it.

I am also pleased about the Government’s views on the full devolution of stamp duty and landfill tax. It is true that those taxes are not massive generators of revenue; they generate about £200 million a year out of an overall budget of £15 billion, which is 0.3%. However, I welcome the fact that stamp duty and landfill tax could be used to encourage inward investment and business generation in Wales, providing a much needed boost to the economy.

Moving on to the key issue of borrowing powers, the Select Committee urged in our pre-legislative scrutiny report that by the time of the publication of the Bill the Government should have set out how they decided the limits of the £500 million current account and the £500 million for capital account borrowing. That was an incredibly worthwhile report, and I think that the Government should acknowledge that there is a need for pre-legislative scrutiny of all Bills of this nature. Comparing the lobbying and transparency Bill with this Bill, the work we have undertaken on the Select Committee will serve the process very well. I remember that the Welsh Liberal Democrat leader, Kirsty Williams, came before the Select Committee and made the comparison between the settlement for Scotland and the settlement for Wales.

We also talked about, and sought clarification on, the issue of bonds, and I am encouraged that the Government seem willing to consider further whether it might be appropriate for the Welsh Government to issue bonds alongside the other measures.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 8th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I would always be the first to condemn the self-serving nature of the Labour party.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Barnett consequentials and, indeed, funding from the European Union have been key components of spending in Wales for many years. What representations has the Secretary of State made about Barnett consequentials and European funding to address the devastation that has occurred in recent days along the Welsh coast, not least in Ceredigion, but also in the constituencies of many other hon. Members?

[Mr Jones]

I have had many conversations with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. Clearly, Aberystwyth has suffered extreme damage as a consequence of the storms of the past few days, and I assure my hon. Friend that, if any additional funding is provided, Barnett consequentials will follow in the usual manner.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Absolutely. S4C is extremely important to the cultural life of Wales. It is the only Welsh language channel in the whole world and its value to Wales cannot be overstated.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Further to that answer, will the Secretary of State reiterate the importance of that decision for the independent television production sector in Wales, which is critical for many of our local economies?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I commend Swansea for their wonderful win in the League cup final. The hon. Gentleman knows that I am always happy to meet him. If he would like to contact my office, I will be pleased to do so again.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

This Government are committed to broadband, but does the Secretary of State share my bewilderment—and that of many of my businesses and farmers in the Ceredigion constituency—at the Welsh Assembly Government’s curious prioritisation, which means that some rural and hard-to-reach areas of Wales will not benefit from broadband initiatives for two years?

[Mr Jones]

It is good to see my hon. Friend speaking up for Ceredigion on Ceredigion day. A number of colleagues have commented on the choice of areas for the first roll-out. Suffice it to say that Broadband Delivery UK is keeping a close watch on how that develops, and I will speak to it on that very issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 28th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

5. What steps he plans to take to implement the recommendations of the first report of the Commission on Devolution in Wales published in November 2012.

[The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

I welcome the publication of the commission’s first report. It is an important piece of work that is thorough and wide-ranging, and I am giving each of the 33 recommendations my full consideration in consultation with Treasury and other Cabinet colleagues. The Government will respond formally in due course.

[Mr Jones]

This matter has been referred to Her Majesty’s Treasury and is the subject of negotiations with the Welsh Government. I can confirm that the legislation will be looked at with a view to proceeding as expeditiously as possible.

[Mr Mark Williams]

The Silk Commission makes a compelling case on the devolution of partial income tax to the Assembly. How swiftly does the Secretary of State believe that we can proceed on this, given the apparent reluctance of the First Minister to countenance reform before full Barnett reform, despite a very good agreement that was brokered in October?

[Mr Jones]

The First Minister’s position is a matter for him, but Paul Silk makes it clear that the commission recommended the devolution of income tax-varying powers within different bands, subject to agreement between the Welsh and the British Governments on issues such as funding. That matter must continue to be looked at.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 17th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I have regular discussions with the Welsh Government about inward investment, and I hope the Welsh Minister for Business is giving consideration to that.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Academic research and development and its commercialisation are key ingredients in inward investment. I am heartened that the Secretary of State is meeting UKTI later today. Will he impress on it at that meeting the excellent work that is being undertaken in Bangor, Glyndwr university, Aberystwyth and Swansea? We have a good message to sell and we need UKTI to help us to sell it.

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: Welsh universities do have a good tale to tell. I would like to single out Swansea university and its science campus, which it is developing closely with British and international industry.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the Minister for that response and congratulate him on his part in securing £57 million for Wales and, of course, the broadband provision for Cardiff. However, on the roll-out of broadband in scattered rural areas, does the Minister share the frustrations of many in my constituency—small business men, and consumers trying to access their bank accounts—at the speed with which that is being delivered in Wales when compared with authorities such as Cornwall, which are speeding ahead?

[Mr Jones]

As my hon. Friend says, the Government have made available a total of £56.9 million to help bring superfast broadband to Wales. The Welsh Government are working with Broadband Delivery UK on how best to employ the funding, but we are indeed looking to the Welsh Government to make an announcement as to their contribution to speed up the process. I am sure, however, that my hon. Friend will be pleased with the announcement by BT last December that 33 rural communities will have access to faster broadband by this summer, including Aberystwyth.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 18th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that the hon. Lady is in a better position to assess the impact of electrification on her constituents than I am, but I would have thought that it is something that Members on both sides of the House would welcome.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

The Minister will be aware that people in mid-Wales have campaigned for a long time for a direct route from Aberystwyth to London and an hourly service from Aberystwyth to Shrewsbury. I encourage him to encourage others to take action on both fronts.

[Mr Jones]

I hear what my hon. Friend says. He can be assured that the Wales Office always does what it can to improve transport links within Wales.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

I think that the hon. Gentleman will find that the Work programme, which this Government brought in, has introduced a level of tailored support for young people and others seeking work. The most important thing for people in the position of those he mentions is to regain work as quickly as possible.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

The Minister will be aware of the excellent work on youth training undertaken by Ceredigion Training in my constituency, which equips young people with the skills they need to gain work. Does he therefore share my concern that the Welsh Assembly Government have cut the work-based learning grant to Ceredigion Training, which means fewer apprenticeships and fewer opportunities for young people to get back into work?

[Mr Jones]

As my hon. Friend points out, the issue of economic development is firmly in the hands of the Welsh Assembly Government, as indeed is training. That is entirely a matter for them, but I am bound to say that, given the current economic backdrop, I was surprised that the economic development budget was cut last week.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

2. What recent discussions she has had with the First Minister on the devolution of planning decisions for electricity projects with a generating capacity greater than 50 megawatts.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend has regular discussions with the First Minister about issues that affect Wales, including energy.

My right hon. Friend has received no formal requests from the First Minister on the specific issue of devolving planning decisions for electricity projects with a generating capacity greater than 50 megawatts.

[Mr Williams]

I thank the Minister for that response. Perhaps this matter could be included in Monday’s discussions. Will he acknowledge the concern that has been expressed by the First Minister, people from all parties and especially campaigners in mid-Wales against large-scale wind turbine developments? They feel it would be completely in line with the devolution settlement to transfer this power, so that decisions about large energy projects are made in Wales by Welsh Ministers.

[Mr Jones]

There is considerable concern in north and mid-Wales about large-scale energy developments, but I must tell my hon. Friend that there are no plans to devolve such competence to the Welsh Assembly Government. The big problem in mid-Wales is not that competence for energy consents resides in Westminster, but that the Assembly Government’s planning policy—in the form of technical advice note 8—has a strong presumption in favour of wind farm development in certain areas. That is the difficulty and it lies with the Welsh Assembly Government to amend.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

8. What assessment she has made of the effect on the Welsh economy of recent trends in the cost of fuel.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Over the last few months I have made an assessment of the impact of the recession on rural areas, including the effects of rising fuel prices on businesses and families in Wales. We recognise that businesses, individuals and families are struggling with the rising cost of fuel, and we are looking at how we can help.

[Mr Williams]

Following on from the Minister’s assessment, what representations has he made on extending the Government’s fuel duty rebate for the islands of Scotland and Cornwall to large tracts of rural Wales, where sparsity, economic dependence and inadequate public transport make this a pressing issue?

[Mr Jones]

I agree that it is a pressing issue in large parts of rural Wales, such as my hon. Friend’s constituency. I can tell the House that I have written to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury to press for the extension of the pilot to rural areas in Wales.

St David’s Day

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 2nd March 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Mark Williams]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I will come on to some of the concerns that have been raised. I just cite the Welsh Tourism Alliance—I am sure it has as much of an interest in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency as it does in many other constituencies in Wales—which supports this move and sees huge opportunities for tourism in particular.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

Following on from the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb), is the hon. Gentleman arguing that St David’s day should be an additional public holiday or that it should replace an existing public holiday?

[Mr Mark Williams]

The Minister will have the chance to reply to my speech in a minute. However, I would point out that this country compares very favourably with others in the world when it comes to public holidays. We have eight public holidays, which is on a par with Australia and the Netherlands. I appreciate the sensitivities about this issue, and there is added sensitivity this year, of course, because of the welcome news of the royal engagement, which means that there will be a public holiday on the Friday, with another the following Monday. However, my cause in this debate is to argue the case for the National Assembly to make a decision about St David’s day on the basis of a full consultation—the precedent was set in Scotland—on the issues and the concerns of business people. The decision should reside with the National Assembly.

There is also considerable public support. BBC Wales commissioned a survey for St David’s day in 2006, which found that 87% of respondents supported the idea of a public holiday for St David’s day, which is perhaps not a surprise. I acknowledge that concern has been expressed by some parts of the business community, but there is generally a good deal of support for this proposal.

As I said, there was a unanimous vote in the early days of the Assembly in 2000 for St David’s day to be a public holiday in Wales, reflecting support for the proposal. Unfortunately, that proposal was not taken forward, and it was explicitly rejected in 2000 by the then Labour Government, who ruled out introducing it unless it was explicitly supported by business. That was disappointing, but, as a result of this debate, I hope that the Government will be willing to discuss the matter with Welsh Ministers in a reasonable manner—something the Minister always does in these debates—and in the spirit of the respect agenda that they rightly hold as their overriding principle in their dealings with the devolved Administrations. I hope that the outcome of the debate will be that the door is open for the Assembly—perhaps the new Assembly after the elections in May—to engage in dialogue with the Westminster Government on this matter and, as the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) said, advance it for next year.

There are some good precedents and the Scottish Government have made St David’s day a public holiday. [Hon. Members: “St. Andrew’s day.”] I am sorry; they have made St Andrew’s Day a public holiday, passing legislation after detailed consultation. However, banks are not required to close and employees are not entitled to the day off, but rather companies can choose whether or not to observe the public holiday, which is either on the day itself or the following Monday if it falls on a weekend. There have recently been calls in the Scottish Parliament for more public bodies and organisations to recognise the holiday, and it seems to have been a popular move but, critically, the debate is happening in Scotland. When the original proposal was made by the MSP Dennis Canavan, his consultation indicated 85% support from the public.

The Scottish Government took a very detailed look at the economic costs and benefits, the level of support from the public and the relationship between holidays and employment and productivity. I am loth as a devolutionist to give advice to the Welsh Assembly Government, but I hope that they would, if given the power to decide on the matter, examine the Scottish model closely, building on the considerable work that has already been done to consider the advantages and disadvantages of a public holiday.

St Patrick’s day became a public holiday in Ireland in 1903. It was granted by an Act of Parliament introduced by the Irish MP James O’Mara. St Patrick’s day remains perhaps the best example of a country using a public holiday to its advantage. It has built Ireland’s profile throughout the world, encouraged many more visitors, and provided a significant boost to the Irish economy. The St Patrick’s festival alone was estimated to have contributed €50.5 million to the Irish economy in 2010, €43.7 million of which came from overseas visitors. I do not necessarily claim that a St David’s day holiday would lead to similar encouraging revenues as St Patrick’s Day, but there are relatively few opportunities for a small country to publicise itself. A national St David’s Day and the boost from a public holiday would really help to put Wales on the map, particularly in the tourism sector to which my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) alluded in an intervention. It would also be an opportunity for a more prominent celebration for the Welsh diaspora which, although not as vocal as the global Irish community, is well established across the world. Anything that makes people look at their roots and ancestry, and perhaps even plan a visit to their homeland with their wallets, would be encouraging and welcome.

I understand the concerns of some in the business community. I do not mean the one-man bands, but what one of my constituents called the two or three-man and woman bands—the businesses that dominate much of rural Wales. It is vital to take into account the views of the business community, and I would expect the Welsh Assembly Government to consult the business community and work out the best way to advance the proposal. Even with established bank holidays, there is no automatic right to time off, and businesses can, if they wish, include bank holidays within the statutory holiday allowance. The Scottish Government have set up St Andrew’s day as a voluntary public holiday, with many businesses choosing to observe it as a holiday. I should like us to consider the Scottish model, but it is a matter for the National Assembly.

I want to stress the positive benefits that a St David’s day holiday would bring to Wales and the Welsh economy. The Wales Tourism Alliance supports the idea and has highlighted the benefits: a day when we can show off our culture, heritage and language, among other facets of the country, would be an important shop window for Wales and an encouragement to tourism operatives. As well as the obvious benefits to be gained for tourism from a St David’s day public holiday, it would be an opportunity to showcase Welsh products. To take the food sector as an example, when I became an MP I was able to initiate a Welsh cheese week at Westminster. It might sound like a small thing, but we have excellent cheese producers in rural Wales. We ensured that two cheeses from Ceredigion, Gorwydd Caerphilly and Celtic Promise, were served in this place. The initiative attracted some publicity for the excellence of the products. The following year, the cheeses returned and were joined by Golden Valley ale from the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams). I do not know how much of a direct impact that had, but the promotion of excellent Welsh produce is crucial, and a St David’s day public holiday is another opportunity to promote Wales at its best.

For all the concern about the impact of public holidays on the economy—and I respect those concerns—we still have, with eight public holidays, among the fewest of any country in the world. We are level with Australia and the Netherlands and have half the number in Japan and India. In the past, some have suggested that there is a link between a high number of public holidays and a high unemployment rate. The Scottish Parliament information centre did research and looked into those claims during the consultation on St Andrew’s day, and found no obvious correlation between unemployment and the number of public holidays that a country has within the EU.

I hope that the Minister can provide a positive response and that he will argue that the decision should rest with the National Assembly, which would be right. I hope at the very least he will adopt an open-door policy for discussion of the matter with colleagues in the National Assembly, so that we can finally move forward with the decision on whether St David’s Day should be a public holiday in Wales. I will certainly support the campaign.

I shall finish with Dewi Sant’s last words to his followers in a sermon given on the Sunday before he died. Rhygyfarch translates them as

“Be joyful, and keep your faith and your creed.”

As the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd, who is familiar with the quotation, as many people are, said, the passage continues:

“Do the little things that you have seen me do and heard about. I will walk the path that our fathers have trod before us.”

“Do the little things” or “Gwnewch y pethau bychain” has become a well-known phrase in Welsh, and I hope that the Minister can give us an indication that he plans to do what I consider is a little thing: offering the Welsh Assembly the opportunity to designate St David’s Day as a public holiday. It would be a little thing but would have huge significance back home and bring huge opportunities for the future of Wales.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Jones]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. As I said earlier, children and St David’s day go hand in hand. School eisteddfods are tremendously important to the culture of Wales, and the St David’s day eisteddfods are a well-established tradition that I would not wish to see disturbed.

[Mr Mark Williams]

On the back of the intervention of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy, my four children will be taking part in our school eisteddfod, in ysgol Craig yr Wylfa, but that will be on Friday morning. It is not necessary to hold school eisteddfods on the day itself. Such school events are critical to the future of St David’s day, and they will happen regardless of whether it is a public holiday.

[Mr David Jones]

My hon. Friend makes a fair point. As I said earlier, St David’s day itself is a magical day in Wales, and the eisteddfods held on St David’s day are equally magical. I, for one, would be rather sad to see the magic of the day lost. However, as my hon. Friend said, it is a matter upon which Parliament will shortly be able to vote, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) is promoting a private Member’s Bill that would create bank holidays on St David’s day and St George’s day. That Bill received its First Reading on 15 December and will have its Second Reading on 13 May. I have no doubt that my hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion will participate in that debate. The Government will make their position on that Bill known in due course.

I return to more hard-headed matters and the unfortunate subject of cost. Bank holidays have an economic impact. A bank holiday across the country would cost in the region of £3 billion in lost wages, on the basis that everyone would be paid for an extra day’s work. Pro rata, the cost in Wales would be £138 million. Of course, we cannot take Wales in isolation because, as the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) pointed out, it will have an impact across the border. That is another factor that will have to be taken into consideration. Frankly, the right hon. Gentleman was entirely right to say that having a bank holiday on St David’s day should be a matter for the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr David Jones]

My hon. Friend makes an interesting argument, and he can put it forward during the DCMS consultation. I am sure that the Department will listen carefully to his spiritual arguments. The Government are not closing their mind to a holiday on St David’s day.

[Mr Mark Williams]

I welcome the tone of what the Minister says. Although many people will be baffled that the Welsh Assembly is not in a position to make the decision, the encouraging news that the consultation is to take place, and the expectation that the Welsh Assembly Government will participate in it, is most welcome.

[Mr David Jones]

I am glad that my hon. Friend welcomes my remarks. Perhaps we have achieved something this morning.

My hon. Friend spoke of the life of St David. It is probably fair for me to conclude by pointing out that St David was noted for his ascetic life. It is said that he was sustained by a simple diet of bread and herbs and drank nothing but water—hence his being called Dewi Ddyfrwr, or David the water drinker. He is also reputed to have been in the habit of standing neck-deep in cold water, reciting from the scriptures. It is most unlikely that St David ever took a day’s holiday.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 2nd February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

10. What discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on the likely effect on Wales of the establishment of a groceries code adjudicator.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones)]

My right hon. Friend and I have regular discussions with ministerial colleagues on a range of issues affecting Wales, including the food industry. We believe that it is important to ensure a fair deal throughout the food supply chain. The new body will help future investment and innovation by increasing confidence among suppliers and consumers.

[Mr Williams]

I know that the Minister met the Farmers Union of Wales last week. Did he detect the impatience that I detected in my discussions with the union about progress being slow on the development of a supermarket ombudsman? Such an ombudsman will gain support across the House. What progress has he made in his discussions and will he push the agenda further in his discussions with the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs?

[Mr Jones]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know, I am sure, that I will be visiting his constituency tomorrow, when I will discuss this very issue with the Farmers Union of Wales. He is absolutely right: the proposal has been well received in the industry. This was mooted as long ago as 2001 by the former Prime Minister, Tony Blair, but nothing came of it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Mark Williams

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jones]

Again, I have to say that the issue of staffing must be one for individual police forces. The Government are trying to be sensitive about the cuts that are necessary as a consequence of the appalling economic legacy that has been left to the country by the Labour party.

[Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD)]

Further to the previous question, what representations has the Minister made on the future of the rural policing grant as it affects Dyfed-Powys? The grant is currently £2.64 million and there are real concerns about the implications of any change for the delivery of front-line protection.

[Mr Jones]

I am sure that that will be a matter of particular concern to my hon. Friend. The Home Office is considering the matter, which will be the subject of an announcement shortly.