Post Office Horizon Scandal

Debate between David Jones and Kevin Hollinrake

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

It is fair to say that the answer is no, because this scandal has occurred and there must have been a systemic failure in the relationship, either in the Post Office or in different parts of Government. We currently do not know where it failed, but we are all keen to see the outcome of the inquiry, which should conclude by the end of this year. A report will follow, and we are all keen to see its conclusions. We can then identify who is responsible and decide what might be done.

The Department for Business and Trade has learned lessons from what happened, and I think there is now a much better oversight and governance relationship between the Department and the Post Office. That is too late for many people, of course, but it is not too late to find the answers that the hon. Gentleman is looking for.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

The entire House will welcome today’s announcement. The Government have made exactly the correct decision, given the balance of mischief. Can my hon. Friend say whether the convictions to be quashed under the process he has announced today will include not only those prosecuted by the Post Office itself but those prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service? On the latter, will the Ministry of Justice review the decision-making process prior to the decision to prosecute?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Yes, absolutely, we believe that the overturning of convictions would happen in respect of cases prosecuted by the Crown Prosecution Service too, not least because, as we understand it, the files were compiled by the Post Office, based on its evidence. That would seem right and proper if the evidence was not correct, and we know that to have been the case because of what has happened with Horizon and because of the behaviour of some individuals in the Post Office team—those responsible for investigations. Clearly, there was inappropriate behaviour. The answer to my right hon. Friend’s question is yes, and it is only right that we look at what happened. As I say, the Lord Chancellor is looking at the whole issue of private prosecutions and how those cases were put together and prosecuted.

Horizon: Compensation and Convictions

Debate between David Jones and Kevin Hollinrake

Monday 8th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for all his work on this matter. He has been a constant contributor to these debates to make sure that we see justice for his constituents and other people affected by this scandal. Mr Rudkin was one of the stars of the show in the dramatisation, and I am so sorry to hear what happened to him and his wife through the Post Office’s actions. It seems incredibly coincidental that those two things coincided—the visit to Fujitsu, what he discovered at that point and then what happened the next day in discovering a £44,000 shortfall in his accounts. We all now know that Fujitsu and the Post Office were able to amend the post office accounts. It seems incredibly coincidental, but also, as I said, brutal and cynical in terms of what might have happened. We should let Sir Wyn Williams determine exactly what has happened and who is responsible before we judge and blame. I am just as keen as the hon. Gentleman to see individuals held to account for what happened in this scandal.

[Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con)]

May I echo the point made a few moments ago by my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel)? The Horizon computer system, which has been the cause of so much misery to so many postmasters and their families—including my constituent, Mr Alan Bates—was supplied by Fujitsu, which continued to be paid to maintain it. Fujitsu is also the recipient of multimillion-pound contracts from many public bodies, including Departments. Indeed, it has recently had contracts awarded by the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the Home Office and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. Can my hon. Friend say why a company that has been the cause of such distress to so many of our fellow citizens continues to be the beneficiary of public sector contracts?

[Kevin Hollinrake]

Once again, I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend’s constituent, Alan Bates, who was very much the star of the show, both in the dramatisation and in reality. It is because of his tenacity and his commitment that this has come to light. The Horizon system is being rebuilt. Fujitsu is not rebuilding it, so the Post Office will move away from the current Horizon system, but it needs a system today to cover one of the largest retail networks in the world. We need to make sure that it has a system it can use right now, but it will no longer be Fujitsu’s responsibility.

As for other Government contracts, we are of course looking at those. Whether it is contributing to compensation or looking at access to Government contracts, our view is that we should let Sir Wyn Williams complete his inquiries and report, and then make a decision on what happened, who is responsible and exactly what we will do about individuals or organisations at that point in time.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between David Jones and Kevin Hollinrake

Thursday 27th April 2017 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

8. What steps he is taking to involve representatives of the English regions in the Government’s preparations for the UK leaving the EU.

[The Minister of State, Department for Exiting the European Union (Mr David Jones)]

Mr Speaker, it is nice to be here. The Government are committed to securing a deal that works for the entire United Kingdom, including all parts of England. The Department for Exiting the European Union and the Department for Communities and Local Government are working closely with the Local Government Association and regional partners across the country to understand clearly the issues related to exit and to identify any regional differences. As my hon. Friend will be aware, the Secretary of State has already committed to bringing the newly elected combined authority mayors in England together for a summit in the summer.

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank the Minister for that answer. At departmental questions some weeks ago, the Secretary of State agreed to hold a meeting in York for the mayors of the north to make sure the region’s interests were properly represented. With Yorkshire’s devolution deals proving challenging to agree, will the Secretary of State agree also to invite the leaders of those areas not represented by a mayor?

[Mr Jones]

The Government are committed to securing a deal that works for the whole United Kingdom, including every part of England. DExEU Ministers have visited Yorkshire on a number of occasions, and that includes the Secretary of State’s visit in November. I am sure he will be willing to consider another visit after the election.