David Gauke
Main Page: David Gauke (Independent - South West Hertfordshire)Department Debates - View all David Gauke's debates with the HM Treasury
(13 years, 6 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Colchester (Bob Russell) on securing this debate and on speaking with such evident passion and knowledge about the hospices in his constituency and the hospice movement more widely. I think I speak for all Members in expressing a sense of admiration for what the hospice movement does. I certainly know of the fantastic work that a number of hospices perform in my constituency.
I am pleased to have a further opportunity to explain and discuss the Government’s policy on an issue that has generated considerable interest and is evidently of concern to a large number of hon. Members. It might be helpful if I could start by reminding Members of the current position with regard to VAT and the constraints that we are acting under. Before I do so, I would like to confirm how much the Government appreciate the energy and input of charities across a wide spectrum of national life and interests. We can all agree on the important role that they play in our society and agree that we are fortunate that they are prepared to come forward with their immense contribution.
As we all know, VAT is a broad-based tax levied on final consumption. It is charged by registered businesses on their supplies and can be recovered by a business when the purchase is destined for use in the making of supplies that carry VAT. In this respect, charities are no different from others when they are in business, as they can recover VAT. A business, however, bears the VAT on purchases when it is making supplies that are exempt from VAT. Since the supplies it makes do not carry VAT, it is unable to claim back the VAT. Exemption is applicable to a limited range of supplies such as the rent of land and buildings, education and health care. The application of an exemption has to be in line with international agreements—in this case, the principal VAT directive. Since health care is included in the list of exemptions, we are obliged to apply an exemption.
The hon. Gentleman’s central concern is how the impact of VAT on hospices can be mitigated. Ideas that have been mooted include the application of a refund system or arrangements similar to those applying to the NHS. With regard to a refund system, it would, in principle, be possible to introduce such a system in respect of the non-business activities of charities. However, such refunds, as a matter of Government expenditure rather than taxation, would place a very significant cost burden on the Exchequer, especially given the current fiscal position. Furthermore, many charities are engaged in activities where they could be in direct competition with private sector organisations: those activities include the provision of care and welfare services. A refund scheme for VAT incurred in relation to these services would represent a distortion of competition. Any scheme that could be devised would be complex and administratively burdensome for charities to operate.
Bob Russell
Will the Minister explain where the competition is in the treatment of cancer patients? That is something new to me; I did not realise that it was in the competitive world.
Mr Gauke
I wanted to apply this initially to the broad issue of costs incurred by charities as a whole. Clearly, there can be an issue in the provision of care and welfare services more generally, and I was looking at it in that context rather than specifically with regard to hospices.
It is true that the NHS can recover the portion of its VAT costs that relate directly to out-sourced services used in the provision of free healthcare—for example, cleaning, laundry, catering and estate management. That amounts to about 20% of the total VAT incurred across the NHS. This ability to reclaim some VAT costs is taken into account as part of the overall funding arrangements for the NHS. Refunds do not extend to VAT paid on goods and services purchased to support business activities that are exempt from VAT, such as private health care and property rental.
In addition to the obligation placed on the Government to ensure that the VAT system is fiscally neutral and does not distort competition, it is not within our gift to change unilaterally a VAT system unanimously agreed in Europe and applying in the single market. We need to apply the mandatory exemption in relation to the business supplies of health care providers, with the associated block on recovery. Similarly, under European agreements the Government cannot extend existing VAT zero rates or introduce new ones. Reduced rates can be applied only to a specific list of goods and services, and there is no such reduced rate that applies to all supplies made by all charities.
Nic Dakin
The Minister is giving a detailed explanation, which is very helpful. May I refer back to situations in which a hospice, for example, takes over services that were previously run by the NHS, for which the NHS could recover VAT on non-business services? Surely such an imaginative Minister can find a way of transferring that across to the hospice movement so that it is cost-neutral for the Exchequer, but beneficial to the community.
Mr Gauke
If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will come back to that point. It is kind of him to say that I am going through this in a detailed way. If I may, I will proceed and then come back to what we can do. It is worth making the point that the last time we tried to change the list of matters that can be zero rated for VAT, it took six years and some negotiation.
It is worth highlighting the help that Government provide for charities. We are limited in the support that we can give through changes to the VAT system, but it is important to understand that the Government can and do support charities more widely through the existing VAT system and in other ways. We are committed to retaining the existing VAT zero rates that apply specifically to charities, which provide a benefit of about £200 million a year. Those include VAT zero ratings for qualifying charities on sales of donated goods, for medical and scientific equipment, and for goods for use by disabled people. Charities are not charged VAT on the costs of advertising and public media. They also qualify for zero rating on the construction of certain buildings to be used for charitable purposes. All those zero rates are derogations from the normal EU VAT rules and are not enjoyed by charities in other member states. Charities also benefit from the more widely available VAT zero rates that are applicable to purchases.
The UK has one of the most generous tax systems in the world for charities. Our existing reliefs for charities are worth more than £3 billion a year. Gift aid is the largest single relief, and it is now worth nearly £1 billion to charities each year. Our position, which is in line with that taken by successive Governments, is that the most appropriate way of supporting charities is to encourage charitable giving, rather than to create a complex and burdensome system of additional reliefs or refunds.
Martin Horwood
As a former director of fundraising for a national charity, I tell the Minister that encouraging giving is easy to say, but more difficult to achieve, whereas a VAT refund would make a substantial and immediate difference. The problem of the burden on the charity would be easily overcome in exchange for the benefit. The important point, which has been made, is that as we commission more health care services, it will not be cost-neutral for the Treasury, but will give a windfall benefit to the Treasury. Surely something can be done so that at least new services that are provided gain a refund for VAT, and do not just deliver a benefit to the Treasury for no benefit to the community.
Mr Gauke
Again, hon. Members are raising fair points. To jump to the conclusion, we are looking closely at this area.
The help that we provide to charitable giving is important. Charities are central to our big society agenda. The 2011 Budget announced the most radical and generous reforms to charitable giving for 20 years, including reducing the inheritance tax rate when 10% or more of the net estate is left to charity. From 2013, a new scheme will allow charities to claim a gift aid-style top-up on small donations that they receive without gift aid declarations for up to £5,000 for each charity every year. Overall, 100,000 charities can benefit from the 2011 Budget changes to the tune of about £600 million.
It is also worth mentioning the transition fund that was announced at the spending review. It makes £100 million available to charities, voluntary organisations and social enterprises that are delivering front-line services and are affected by reductions in public spending. The fund provides grants of between £12,500 and £500,000 to help organisations make the changes necessary to thrive in the long term. Funding was made available in 2010-11 and 2011-12, and the fund is focused on helping organisations transit and adapt to the new funding environment rather than merely keep going. The first 18 awards were made on 15 February, with further awards in March, April and May.
The Government continue to examine ways of ensuring that VAT does not act as a barrier to the reform of public services, which was the point that the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) raised. We are examining such options where they are open to us and affordable within agreed funding arrangements. For example, the Government announced in the Budget that we would continue to consult charities and organisations in other sectors to explore options for implementing the EU VAT exemption for cost sharing. I can tell the House that one of the options under consideration is to issue a consultation paper on the subject within the next two months, and we are exploring that possibility closely.
More widely, there are often ways of mitigating the impact of VAT within the existing system. For example, where local authorities and other public bodies enter into contractual rather than funding arrangements with charitable providers, it can greatly lessen any irrecoverable VAT incurred by those providers in many cases. It has to be acknowledged, however, that such an approach does not offer much scope for services that fall within the health exemption.
As I said earlier, I recognise that there is genuine concern about VAT among people involved in hospices. That was why, in March, I met the hon. Members for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) and for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland) and people working in the hospice sector, including for Sue Ryder. Following that meeting I asked officials to continue the dialogue, and they have met subsequently with the intention of exploring any viable options. I hope that that provides some reassurance, although I cannot give more detail at the moment. I am certainly keen that we explore options.
Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con)
Will the Exchequer Secretary respond to a suggestion that has been made by Richard Shaw, the treasurer of the excellent St Richard’s hospice in my constituency? He has suggested that under the NHS reforms, if hospices’ income from doctors’ consortia could be deemed to be VAT standard rating, that would allow hospices to recover a lot more VAT on their charges. Will that be one of the options that his officials look into?
Mr Gauke
As the hon. Member for Colchester has just muttered, it will now. My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) has put that thought on the record, and my officials will certainly take it up.
As I said, there is clearly strong feeling in the House on the subject, and rightly so. We all recognise and respect the value of the hospice movement, and we all recognise the opportunities and benefits of a greater diversity of supply of services. We agree that it would be most unfortunate if the workings of the VAT system were to get in the way of sensible progress. I hope that my comments will provide reassurance to the hon. Member for Colchester that we understand the issues that have been raised and that the Government are taking them very seriously. I hope that we can continue to work closely with the hospice movement in developing proposals.
Question put and agreed to.