Shared Parental Leave and Pay (Bereavement) Bill

Debate between Darren Henry and James Daly

2nd reading
Friday 26th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Daly (Bury North) (Con)]

I suspect the population of the United Kingdom are not gripped by Parliament TV at the moment, but I wish they were, because debates such as this show the humanity of Members of the House. This whole discussion is based on humanity, and it says a lot about the hon. Member for Ogmore (Chris Elmore) that he has taken on a Bill that my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Darren Henry) has worked on to bring about positive change. When I became a Member of Parliament, I thought how difficult it was to change the lives of thousands of people in one go, but if we can change the life of one person in a positive way, even if it is in very tragic circumstances, it is a worthwhile thing for us to do, so I am pleased to take part in this debate.

I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. I am a practising solicitor and partner in a firm of solicitors. People have different views on whether that is a good or a bad thing, but I would like to think that I work hard as an MP. When we talk about employment rights, even in the most tragic of circumstances, I sometimes feel that the views of small employers, the backbone of our economy, are not represented, and I will give a few thoughts on that today. As my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe has rightly said, some of the commentary on the Bill has been about how employers would react to such circumstances. When I come down here to be a Member of Parliament, including on a Friday, I am very lucky that I have a wife who runs a business, looks after two children, looks after a dog, looks after a family, and does literally everything in respect of that. She has the pressures of life on her, and she maintains a business in challenging circumstances; we employ approximately 20 people. She is my template when I think what she would make of the Bill. We are a business that does not make vast fortunes of money; we rely on treasured and important employees being able to create incomes so that we can pay wages. None the less, I do not believe, unless my hon. Friend has been told something different, that a small business, even in the most challenging circumstances, would seek to terminate the employment of somebody who has gone through such a bereavement. We must have faith not only in the words that we say in this place, but in the humanity of the people we represent. Faced with these circumstances, the small businesses that I know up and down the country would, I think, rise to the challenge, and support in exactly the way that my hon. Friend has described.

It is sometimes difficult to talk in this Chamber about things of which we have no personal experience, but as Aaron is in the Public Gallery today, I can say that both he and Tim can be very proud and pleased that good will come from tragic circumstances.

On the wider issue, both parties share a commitment to shared parental leave and employment rights. I would like to say that it is not a political issue, but it is important to note that we have seen developments under this Government, such as carers’ leave and flexible working, to try to respond to the challenges, many of which came from covid. Those developments ensure that the nuances of people’s everyday lives are recognised and that they are supported, because they have much to contribute to our economy. In the circumstances we have heard about today, it is not anyone’s fault that a person is put in that position, but we cannot, through prejudice, hinder people who have so much to offer and so much to support local businesses with.

With regard to bereavement, the pandemic brought that very much to the fore for many of us. I have two children, Alexander and Teddy—we all take the opportunity to mention our children’s names. I cannot imagine—no, it is too much to think about. I lost my dad during the pandemic. My dad, who was a very rumbustious, lively man, was a big part of my life. When he passed away, sadly the covid regulations were in place, so we were perhaps unable to come to terms with his death, or to celebrate his life and speak to his friends and wider family in the way we would have liked.

Bereavement, in its widest sense, affects people in different ways in the workplace, and I think there is an ongoing debate. My friend the hon. Member for Ogmore said that this is a starting point for the debate, and the issue of how bereavement impacts people is very important. My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) also made a valid point on that subject.

[Darren Henry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that what is proposed would actually benefit the employers who provide that, because they would retain the employee in the workforce in the long term, rather than losing them, which would have a negative impact on their business?

[James Daly]

I completely agree. The great challenge in the modern economy is productivity. I cannot express how difficult it is to recruit good staff who are productive—it is genuinely incredibly difficult. That takes me back to the point that employers will do just about anything to retain productive staff, which is what we want to see.

I was here last Friday, when the House was debating a different subject, and the question often asked is why we should legislate on such matters. It is important that this House, and through it our democratic will, guides employers on what we feel are matters of importance and priority, and this is another example of a Bill that does that. Making employers aware that this is an issue that our democratically elected Parliament feels is important is incredibly important.

[Darren Henry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that businesses also need to consider leave and pay if they are to retain good staff?

[James Daly]

That is absolutely correct. Obviously there are bad employers, but the colleagues I know who run their own businesses, who value their employees, would certainly not resile from their responsibilities to those employees. I appreciate the point about legislation, but we must have faith that employers will rise to the challenge. I think very few employers—I am sure there are some bad examples—would resile from that challenge.

Before us we have a Bill that states Parliament’s clear view that a grave injustice must be remedied. It is an honest Bill that says it is the start of a journey, a discussion not only about how we can build on the Bill, but how flexible working and other employment legislation can develop and respond to the modern economy. I have severe concerns about flexible working from home. My local authority tells me that a lot of people are no longer working in the town centre, which is having a hugely detrimental impact on the high street. The Bill is part of sensible and pragmatic employment legislation, and part of an ongoing response to the modern economy and modern needs that understands the nuances and differences in people’s lives.

Any Bill that touches a person’s life in a positive way should be fought for, and this is a good Bill. I encourage the Under-Secretary of State for Business and Trade, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), to think about the points our hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) made about bereavement counselling. There is in my constituency a wonderful charity that deals with the consequences for parents of suicide and supports parents and carers in those circumstances. In this ongoing debate, we need to think about how the state can invest in services that give people the best chance to come to terms with horrific events. We are a good Parliament, ours is a good country, and this debate shows that. It shows humanity and reflects our belief that employers will rise to the challenge the Bill sets. I think Aaron and Tim will forever be proud of what has happened here today.