Clause 1

Debate between Dan Tomlinson and Edward Leigh

Monday 12th January 2026 Commons Chamber

[Dan Tomlinson]

I am not able to comment on the specific figures that the hon. Gentleman raised, but overall the Government are spending significantly more on the NHS in this Parliament each year. That is enabled by the changes to taxation that we announced at this and previous Budgets. One of the challenges that the national health service has today is a result of under-investment in capital for too long, meaning that day-to-day spending is having to take more of the strain. So often in recent years capital budgets have been raided, including when, I should mention, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats were in coalition. Cutting the capital budgets has left us in the difficult situation that we are in now, and this Government are seeking to turn that around.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

rose—

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Dan Tomlinson]

The right hon. Gentleman is welcome to express his views on a range of policies. On the final issue that he raises—net zero and our transition to a cleaner and greener economy—independent analysis, the Government’s Climate Change Committee and the long-term fiscal risk report of the Office for Budget Responsibility have set out clearly that not making that transition, both in the UK and internationally, comes with larger long-term costs for the public finances because of the growing costs of adapting to climate change. It is clear that we need to make that change, for the environment and for the long-term health of our public finances. The OBR’s fiscal risks report is always a good read; I hope that he is, like me, looking forward to the next edition in the summer.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Will the Minister give way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Dan Tomlinson]

I will give way, but then I should make progress given that we have another group of clauses to address after this one.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Even more important than the point made by the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) is the fact that, as I read recently, the average family is paying £12,000 in tax to cover the benefits bill. That is important, because we are taxing entrepreneurial people more, and they will perhaps decide to work a little less hard, so we will all get poorer. I just pray that the Government will have the guts to return to their original proposals—which the Chancellor dropped in the light of pressure—to encourage people back into work, which will mean cutting the benefits bill. I encourage the Government to be true to their original word.

[Dan Tomlinson]

I agree with the right hon. Gentleman on one point: the welfare system that we inherited was failing. Our Government need to correct the mistakes that meant welfare spending was running out of control, as it was when the shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Sir Mel Stride), was Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. We must carefully consider the welfare system and make reforms that support people into work and ensure that the forecast budget increases are sustainable for the public finances. I agree with the right hon. Member for Gainsborough on that point.

I have not heard the £12,000 statistic before, but I would caution against such statistics, which often appear in the press. Many welfare claimants up and down the country are pensioners who receive the state pension. I do not know whether that figure includes the state pension—Members of all parties, with the exception of the shadow Chancellor, support the triple lock—or the many welfare payments for families with someone in work. We are trying to reduce the need to support working families with welfare payments, through increases to the national living wage and steps to boost productivity. I would say that that figure is a misrepresentation—not that I would accuse the right hon. Member for Gainsborough of misrepresenting the facts—because it uses the word “welfare” as a catch-all, when many people who receive support from the state need that support and benefit from it in a reasonable way, including those who lose their jobs, whom we support through jobseeker’s allowance, for example.