Flood Risk (North-East England)
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(10 years, 6 months ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Rogerson)
I congratulate the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) on securing this debate and on the work he does on behalf of his constituents. I served on a Select Committee with him, and know how seriously he takes these issues. To go to the extent of baling out his neighbour’s front room, however he was dressed, shows how seriously he takes his hands-on role as a Member of Parliament.
Flooding is a hugely important subject. I have had the honour of responding to a series of debates, some of which were national in scope and others that focused on particular locations. I hope the House will therefore forgive me for setting out some of the national background to the events of the past several months before looking specifically at the issues in the north-east that the hon. Gentleman has raised.
I should follow on from where the hon. Gentleman finished by thanking all those who were involved in the response effort. As he said, people worked tirelessly to respond to those events, including the staff of fire, ambulance, police and other rescue services, and local authorities, the Environment Agency, the voluntary sector and local communities. He pointed out how the flood wardens in his constituency have made a difference in ensuring that people are aware of what is coming and what steps they can take to protect themselves and their property.
The unprecedented weather events that caused the flooding we witnessed across the UK last year and into the early part of this year were a result of very unsettled weather. It was the wettest January since 1766 for England and Wales. Central and south-east England received more than 250% of average rainfall. Met Office statistics suggest that, for the south England, that was one of the most exceptional periods for winter rainfall in at least 248 years. Added to that, tidal surges caused by low pressure, strong winds and high tides led to record sea levels along many parts of the east coast. High spring tides brought coastal flooding to parts of the south and west coasts. River, surface water and groundwater flooding occurred in many areas.
Although it is not yet possible to attribute a single instance of extreme weather to climate change, the recent winter storminess is in line with what we expect to see under climate change scenarios, as the hon. Gentleman and the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) have pointed out. We therefore expect an increase in the frequency and severity of those types of weather events. The UK’s first climate change risk assessment, published in 2012, assessed that trend and informed the national adaptation programme report, which was published last year. The report sets out a wide range of actions by Government, business, councils and civil society to address the most significant climate risks we face as a country. We already prioritise across Government and well beyond the need to adapt to our changing climate, but we will of course look to learn any lessons from the recent extreme weather events.
We are spending £47.2 million on climate change initiatives this year on both adapting to climate change and helping further to mitigate effects. That includes programmes that help to protect international forests and cut greenhouse emissions, and that help the UK to adapt to a changing climate. Recent events impacted on the homes, businesses and farms of people across the country. Latest estimates suggest that more than 7,000 properties have been flooded in England since the beginning of December 2013. That includes 2,316 properties since the most recent flood event began in early February. The hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland pointed out the incidents earlier in the year in his part of the world and the summer floods last year. We have had a series of extreme flood events throughout the country.
There was significant damage to sea and flood defences and transport infrastructure in some areas. Urgent work is under way to repair the damage to rail links—many lines were back up to full operation by 3 March. The House is aware that the extreme weather also affected power supplies to homes. It is estimated that more than 1 million customers had power restored following interruptions during that stormy period. The response was a magnificent effort. All levels of Government and the emergency services were fully engaged in dealing with the floods and extreme weather. The Government’s response was led by the Cobra emergencies committee.
The most recent flooding was predominantly in the south of England and, as I have said, along the east coast during the high tides of early December 2013, but other regions across England have previously experienced the same sorts of devastating events that were witnessed last winter. For example, the north-east of England was affected in 2012. There were numerous reports of flooding to homes and businesses across County Durham, north Tyneside, Gateshead, Newcastle upon Tyne and Northumberland.
Recent Environment Agency data indicate that, in north-east England, approximately 36,500 properties are at risk of river and coastal flooding. Approximately 11,528 of those are thought to be at significant risk of flooding. The properties at risk are spread throughout the region. However, in a number of key flooding areas, existing flood defences afford a level of protection to communities. For example, the defences at Morpeth are currently being improved to provide more than a one-in-137-year standard of protection to 1,000 properties. Other communities benefiting from Environment Agency maintained defences include South Church, West Auckland, Hexham, Ponteland and Skinningrove, which the hon. Gentleman referred to in his contribution. A notable recent development has been the completion of the flood and coastal protection scheme at Redcar, which protected the town during the severe east coast surge in December 2013.
More than 110,000 properties are potentially at risk from surface water flooding. Managing the risk from surface water flooding is the responsibility of lead local flood authorities. We have established partnerships with the local authorities and Northumbrian Water to support them in managing surface water flood risks. Those partnerships are now starting to deliver schemes that manage both river and surface water flooding issues. Lustrum Beck is a good example of a partnership scheme with Stockton borough council that will deliver river and surface water flood protection to about 150 properties. The Environment Agency can issue 112 separate flood warnings in the north-east for flooding from rivers or the sea. Approximately 11,000 properties and businesses are registered to receive a warning, so that in addition to the flood wardens the hon. Gentleman referred to there are many people who can receive that information straight to hand. They will know when something is coming and when they should start to put into practice measures to ensure that their family and property are safe.
Investment is targeted at a range of communities, from large schemes, such as Port Clarence where 350 properties will be protected from east coast tidal flooding, to small-scale, local projects to protect a few properties from surface water flooding. Overall, this investment will assist in alleviating river flood risk for approximately 1,500 properties and the risk from coastal erosion for a further 200 properties. The annual amount spent on maintenance in the north-east in 2013-14 was £1.2 million and a total of £1.4m has been allocated for 2014-15.
The hon. Gentleman raised, as he has in the past, the specific example of the bridge in the isolated community in his constituency, which is incredibly frustrating. As constituency MPs, we have all had issues in which land ownership features. Where land has a value, people are clamouring to take over and take responsibility. It is very difficult, however, where there is a liability, particularly if the owner does not have a huge amount of cash to hand to be able to put that right.
Mr Iain Wright
The Minister talks about isolated communities. The Headland is a fantastic and proud historic part of Hartlepool in my constituency, but there is one road in and out. It is protected by the Heugh breakwater, but that is at risk. I know he will not know about this at the moment, but will he resolve to look at the importance of the Heugh in protecting the Headland? When the road floods, that community could be isolated. What else can be done to ensure that the residents on the Headland, my constituents, are adequately protected?
Beer Duty Escalator
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(12 years, 1 month ago)
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Mr Wright
I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. If manufacturing is to be an important part of this country’s economic base, with small and medium-sized enterprises forming a key part of that, the food and drink sector—of which microbreweries have to be an essential and growing component—will be vital to that.
I have listened closely to other hon. Members’ contributions to this debate, which has been fair and balanced. It is unreasonable to suggest that beer duty is the sole reason that the pub and beer trade is facing difficulties. There are long-term social and economic forces at work. Over the past 30 years, people have switched away from beer to wine in their alcohol consumption. That is true not just in Britain, but throughout western Europe and the United States. Significantly—this point has been touched on many times in the debate, but it is worth repeating—people are now consuming alcohol in their homes rather than in pubs. In fact, some 70% of the alcohol purchased in the UK is bought for consumption at home. Traditionally, 30 or 40 years ago, people probably bought alcohol only in a pub; now, it is far more likely that beer will be bought in a supermarket.
Dan Rogerson
The hon. Gentleman is making a good point about wine drinking in the home. Does he agree that, because wine has a much higher alcohol content and because people are often drinking not in pub measures but in much larger glasses at home, the health issues are a result more of wine and spirits than of beer, which has a much lower alcohol content?
Mr Wright
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Among even the strongest beers and ales, Cameron’s 6th Sense, which I mentioned earlier, is only 6%, but some of the bottles of wine that are being consumed in one go at home can be 13% or 14%. That has health implications, as does the departure from responsible and supervised drinking in pubs.
The switch from on-trade to off-trade purchase and consumption via the supermarkets has had major effects on the pub industry. The Treasury’s own analysis of alcohol consumption in the UK, which was published in December 2010, showed enormous price elasticity for off-trade beer. That illustrates the enormous competition between supermarkets, the price wars that are going on and the cutting of margins on beer by supermarkets, all to the detriment of the pub trade.
Pubs have an enormous disadvantage, in that they tend not to have the buying power, or the ability to achieve economies of scale, of the major supermarkets, and the nature of their business model means that they have to pass on increases in prices—whether in the form of additional duty, increased VAT or rises in the cost of raw materials—directly to the consumer. Supermarkets are, by and large, able to cross-subsidise, as the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) pointed out, and they often have the ability to absorb any price rises. Beers can even be used as loss leaders to encourage shoppers, a practice that the pubs cannot afford to compete with.
These problems arise not just from the beer duty escalator but from rises in raw material prices, and there must be concern that beer prices will rise still further because of the recent wet summer, which has had an impact on barley crops, and the increase in VAT last year by the Government. The rise in VAT must have put an extra 5p or 6p on the price of a pint, which in turn will put additional pressure on the viability of pubs. Has the Minister looked at the impact on pubs of that VAT rise, of the rises in barley prices and of the beer duty escalator?
On the point about raising revenue, it was estimated when the beer duty escalator was introduced in 2008 that it would generate between £500 million and £600 million for the Exchequer. Given the difficulties since then, and the squeeze on household incomes, has it actually generated that much revenue? What cost-benefit analysis has the Treasury put in place to determine whether the escalator is raising revenue for the Exchequer to the detriment of local economies and local pubs?
I appreciate that the duty is, and should be, a source of revenue for the Exchequer—about 2% of all Government receipts. I appreciate that beer has generated revenue for the Treasury for centuries, to the dismay of beer drinkers everywhere, and that it will continue to do so. I also appreciate that, in a free country, the manner in which people wish to consume a legal product is up to them and not up to the Government. If somebody wants to drink beer bought from the supermarket in their front room while watching the football or a film and having a takeaway, without causing any hassle or intimidation to anybody else, that is entirely up to them. However—this is my key point—if we as a country value the social and economic importance of the pub as a focal point for the community and a means of encouraging responsible and supervised drinking, what steps can the Government take to nudge consumers towards drinking beer in pubs?
In responding, will the Minister set out how he proposes to tackle the growing gulf in prices between pints in pubs and beer in supermarkets? I am not suggesting that he attempts to turn back the tide of social trends over the past 30 years, but I hope he will tell us how the Government value the pub as one of the great British institutions and how he will work with his colleagues, using the tax system, beer duty and any other means at his disposal, to ensure that the pubs and brewing industries of Britain have a brighter and longer-term future as part of a revitalised manufacturing base. I think we would all drink to that.
Careers Service (Young People)
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)
May I begin by extending the Opposition’s best wishes to the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning? He always makes these debates an absolute delight and pleasure; frankly, we have missed him today and we very much hope that he has a speedy recovery from his operation.
The debate has not been what I expected, which was more of the yah-boo politics that we have come to expect in the House. I expected to hear, “You spent too much money,” coming from one side and, “You don’t care about vulnerable people,” on the other. I have been struck by how much consensus there has been and what a good, measured, well-informed and excellent tone there has been throughout. At its best, the debate has featured hon. Members being very much in agreement. I pay tribute to all hon. Members who have contributed tonight, particularly to the spirit in which the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) made his remarks. What I did find regrettable, however, were the contortions that he and the hon. Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) got into in saying, “We agree with every single point that the Opposition are making regarding the motion, but we cannot possibly vote with them tonight,” for whatever reason.
Dan Rogerson
The point that might have escaped the shadow Minister is that the Opposition have taken one recommendation out of a whole report and sought to force a vote on something tonight that they never provided for when they were in government. Unfortunately, that brings a yah-boo, cynical element to something that goes much wider. It would be better to debate the full report from the Government and the reaction to that report.
Education Bill
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(13 years, 7 months ago)
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Dan Rogerson
I am delighted that this concept of muscular liberalism has come back. I am sure that we will not hear it very often from Opposition Members! I look forward to its being raised again and again.
Dan Rogerson
That is a personal remark—I resemble that remark.
As I said in an intervention on the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), there are matters across government that go beyond the coalition agreement, and decisions have to be taken about where the balance should be struck. From my point of view, the issue is whether we stay true to the principle that both parties have articulated about looking at what is constraining schools and trying to set them free to move forward, while also looking after particular groups of people who might be vulnerable if schools do not operate in the spirit of the code and what the Government seek to achieve.
Academies Bill [Lords]
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(14 years, 4 months ago)
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Dan Rogerson
I apologise to you, Mr Hoyle, and to the Committee for not being here for the start of the debate on this group of amendments. I was startled by the efficiency and economy with which the Committee dealt with the previous one.
I welcome the fact that the hon. Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) has raised this issue. It is right that people should look to their local schools for more than the education of young people—or even the education of people throughout their lives. In constituencies such as mine, the rural primary schools are at the heart of the small villages and offer much in terms of facilities and a focal point for much of what happens in the community. In the towns and bigger urban areas, secondary schools offer a similar facility, as my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) said. I completely understand the concerns that the hon. Member for Hemsworth has raised, on behalf of his constituents and people across the country watching this debate, about facilities that they are accustomed to having access to, for a whole range of purposes, perhaps being affected.
I do not have an academy in my constituency, so I bow to the experience of hon. Members who do as to how academies can continue to be at the heart of their communities. However, I would hope that we could have a response from the Minister to the issues raised by the hon. Member for Hemsworth, to reassure people that there will be something in the funding agreement—as we have heard, Government spokespeople in the other place suggested that that would be the way forward—if not in the Bill itself, to ensure that there is a duty on those schools to continue to engage with their local communities.
We have provision in the Bill not just for the transition of existing maintained schools into academies, but for new schools. We have already had a debate about whether some capital resource might be available to help those schools get under way. I hope that that could be kept to a minimum and that where people come forward wishing to provide those services, they would bring with them the determination to provide such facilities themselves. However, if there is a drawdown of money from the state system, as it were, the relevant duties and responsibilities must lie with those people, because they will be wanting to make a contribution to the education of young people in their communities, and I would hope that they should also be at the heart of those communities.
Amendment 54 seeks to place that commitment in the Bill, particularly with regard to facilities. I hesitate to get into a debate on the new clause standing in my name, which my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South mentioned—we may reach it this evening; I am not sure—but there are related issues, which I hope you will permit me to mention, Mr Hoyle, that go wider than just the facilities. My hon. Friend referred to social and community cohesion, on which I hope the Minister will have had a chance to reflect.
With regard to the use of the facilities that the hon. Member for Hemsworth has set out in his amendment, there is a concern that if schools that are considering going down that route are to be held in law to be responsible for providing them following a change, they might seek to reduce such facilities or run them down. I hope that they would not, because all schools, whether they are undergoing the process or not, will want to be at the heart of their communities. However, behind the amendment is a concern that a school might wish to restrict access a little. My concern is that accepting the amendment as drafted, with all the caveats that the hon. Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) will no doubt raise on Report—perhaps I can cut in now, before we get there—will mean that schools would be encouraged to run down the community activities that they offer, because they would want to keep to a minimum what they would have to do afterwards. The amendment might therefore have the opposite effect.
Also, the courts would presumably then become the final arbiter of whether a school was keeping its swimming pool open—if it had a swimming pool—for the same number of hours as it had been a little while ago. We could have schools repeatedly going back to court. I know that that is not the intention of the hon. Member for Hemsworth. I am merely saying that his amendment is a chance to probe the Minister’s intentions and insist that, wherever possible, we should have as much in the guidelines or the funding agreement, which is probably the way to do things, to reassure people that schools will continue to be at the heart of their communities, no matter how they receive their state funding—whether through a maintained set-up or the newer, academies option.
I hope that the Minister will indicate his support for that, but also place on record the fact that it will apply to any new academies, as well as to those formed by existing schools transferring across.
Mr Iain Wright
May I begin by saying what a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hoyle?
I will be brief, because my hon. Friend the Member for Hemsworth (Jon Trickett) and the hon. Members for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) and for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) have said all that needs to be said about amendment 54. I welcome the amendment, which was tabled by my hon. Friend. He has rightly expressed the concern about the risk that community facilities—provision that could and should be used by partnering schools or the wider community—could be stopped as a result of an academy order. All three hon. Members who have spoken in this debate have said how important such facilities are to social cohesion.
A further point is that in times when public finances are tight, the potential saving from having extended schools with those provisions is immense. There could be savings to the NHS, from having that social network in place, to the Home Office and police budgets, from early intervention, or to the social care budget. Those savings could be huge, and they all stem from the idea of an extended school that opens out into the community, providing an open and collaborative range of offers. However, there is nothing in the Bill that might safeguard that. I am concerned about that, which is why I welcome the amendment. I know that it is a probing amendment, as my hon. Friend said. However, I hope that the Minister can reassure the Committee that what is in the Bill will safeguard what is available for the community, because the whole of society can benefit as a result.
Mr Wright
In my constituency, parents want to get their children into certain popular schools. It is important that the local authority sets out a clear procedure by which admissions will be considered, that there is a good appeals process, and that the schools adjudicator is part of that process. It is important that local authorities are in the driving seat: not running schools, but with borough-wide thinking on admissions. The approach has worked well and can continue to do so.
Earlier today, my right hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State for Education and the shadow Schools Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) wrote to every Liberal Democrat Member, expressing the wish that we work together to amend and improve the Bill by supporting new clause 7. If Liberal Democrat Members feel that they must support the Bill as a whole in keeping with the coalition agreement, I can understand and respect their position, but I hope that there can be cross-party support for new clause 7.
Dan Rogerson
How could I resist the opportunity to respond to the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright), who has thrown his glove across the Floor of the House to land at my feet?
The hon. Gentleman is obviously pining for the day on which there is a Liberal Democrat majority Government—[Interruption.] I look forward to working with the hon. Gentleman. Given the way in which his party has conducted itself in opposition, he and his hon. Friends may well be working towards such an arrangement even now.
Let me say, in all seriousness, that the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to suggest that if the Liberal Democrats had been the majority party, we would have proceeded with the sponsor-managed schools option. However, we are not in that position. As the hon. Gentleman pointed out, we are in a coalition Government with a coalition agreement, and it is clear that some policies emanate from one partner in the coalition and some from the other. That is the way it works in coalition agreements all over the world, in countries where arrangements such as this are far more common than they have been in the United Kingdom, at least for several decades.
I do not think that academies are the answer. I did not think that they were the answer when the hon. Gentleman’s party was in charge of the policy, and I do not think that they will necessarily be the answer for all schools now. However, following the coalition agreement, the Bill contains a series of provisions enabling communities, where there is a will, to allow schools to adopt academy status. It remains to be seen how many will take up the option and what use they will make of it. Amendments were made in another place, notably with regard to the provision of additional schools—which I know concerned the hon. Gentleman in earlier debates—and assessments of the impact on the surrounding area.
Consultation is vital. We have already engaged in a full debate on that issue, and I shall not go over the ground again. I will say, however, that the hon. Gentleman spoke of commitments by a political party in a set of circumstances prior to a coalition agreement which has been published and is available for everyone to examine and discuss. Believe me, people in my constituency and others have been discussing it, and we have had many debates on it. That should not come as a surprise to the hon. Gentleman.
I had the honour of serving in the last Parliament, when the hon. Gentleman stood at the Government Dispatch Box ably standing up for—it must be said—the sometimes slightly dodgy policies that his party was producing. He must have seen us sitting on the Opposition Benches below the Gangway—where his hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) is sitting now—talking to some of his hon. Friends who were then sitting on this side of the Committee. They were sorely tempted to join us. Lord McAvoy, as he now is, would have been there, casting his eye over Labour Members and making sure that that did not happen.
It could be said that we are now in similar circumstances in terms of the way in which this place works, but it can only work, and a Government can only work, when there is an agreed programme. We have an agreed programme, and the Government are proceeding with it. However, I am pleased that the Minister was willing to listen—as was his noble Friend Lord Hill—to Members of our party and our side of the coalition, and to other noble Lords and hon. Members, and to make provision to allay some of the concerns that have been raised.
Academies Bill [Lords]
Debate between Dan Rogerson and Iain Wright(14 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Wright
I thank the Minister for his contribution. I am keen for him to intervene again, because I still think that the word “review” is very vague. It does not set out in any degree what the process would be, so that the proprietor of the academy could be reassured that appropriate processes had taken place. Our amendments 62 and 63 would tighten up the language of the Bill. They would ensure that there was not a review, to use that broad, somewhat ambiguous word, but an appeal. That would help to clarify certain matters in the Bill. I would be happy for the Minister to respond further on that point.
Dan Rogerson
I am intrigued by this role reversal: the hon. Gentleman is standing up for the proprietor of the academy against the local authority in this instance. It seems a reversal of the way in which the arguments have gone throughout the day. It strikes me that we are talking about a one-off instance, not a continuing relationship. Once the decision has been made, the academy is in the area, doing things with the local community. On his point about the provisions being a centralising measure, what he describes may not happen in every case, and the measure is a one-off.
Mr Wright
The hon. Gentleman makes a fair and reasonable point. I am anxious to proceed with business; I want to put it on the record that that is one of the reasons why my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Vernon Coaker) and I did not press amendment 71 to a vote. I understand what the Minister is saying, but I still think that this is a centralising Bill. The comments of the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) put the matter in a wider context. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Mr Wright
I thank the Chair of the Education Committee and I entirely understand his point. Perhaps I should moderate my language in Committee. However, the point is essentially the same: how do we ensure that local taxpayers get good value for money? Like the equalities impact assessment, the impact assessment of the Bill is somewhat vague and light on detail. It states:
“Total one-off costs incurred by schools converting to an academy are estimated to be an average £78k including VAT.
Since the VAT costs are a transfer payment from DoE to HMRC, they are not economic costs. The total economic costs per conversion to academy are therefore £66k.
However, there is scope for Academies meeting these costs from within their existing balances which could reduce the cost to DFE to as little as £25,000 per Academy.”
Will the Minister outline the evidence base for this? No mention whatever is made of the transfer of surpluses in this regard. In preparing for the Bill and with regard to the impact assessment, what work has been done in relation to surpluses that could be transferred to the academy? I would be interested in any information that he could provide about that.
The purpose of amendment 76 is to address those concerns about transparency and accountability and to try to ensure that there is an appropriate process.
Dan Rogerson
I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman intends to discuss amendment 66, which is grouped with amendment 76. I may be misreading those amendments, but as I understand it, they are contradictory, because one of them seeks to remove liability while the other seeks to offset liabilities and surpluses. What is the thinking behind that?
Mr Wright
I will come to that, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that the amendments are not contradictory—they are trying to address a similar problem and to ensure that we can resolve this issue.
Amendment 76 would ensure that all existing and contingent liabilities, including any liabilities that have been incurred on behalf of the school by the local authority, should also be considered. In this context, I take the contingent liability to mean a possible obligation that arises from past events and whose existence will be confirmed only by the occurrence of one or more uncertain future events not wholly within the existing school’s control. An example could be outstanding legal cases. We discussed in Committee last night the possibility of legal challenge from staff who might not have had the opportunity or the time to consider properly the TUPE arrangements of moving from a maintained school to an academy—a point that has been well articulated by my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson). That might be considered a possible contingent liability.
Another example, which has been discussed this afternoon, could be any liabilities arising under current private finance initiative arrangements. We had an interesting debate about amendment 70, with particular regard to PFI. One of the risks is that a local authority could have a potential 25-year period of liabilities arising from PFI, and converting a maintained school to an academy means that the academy has no way of being liable for that payment over that quarter of a century. What reassurance can the Minister give in that regard?