Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill [Lords]

Debate between Dan Poulter and John McDonnell

Report stage
Tuesday 22nd February 2022 Commons Chamber

[John McDonnell]

I was chair of finance at the Greater London Council at that time, and I would regularly turn up with my shares with regard to Barclays bank. When Mandela came here—some Members will have been there when he spoke—he and others, including the late Archbishop Tutu, commended those who argued for disinvestment from South Africa in order to bring about a change in that regime, and it worked.

The point I am making—I will finish on this element of it—is that I do not believe it is the role of the state to interfere in this way. Parliament can decide to expand the role of the state, but I think it begins to strain the limits of parliamentary democracy. I have listened to Conservative Ministers warn us in this Chamber about elective dictatorships, so I just warn hon. Members on both sides of the House that once these precedents are set, other Governments will be tempted to follow and, in some instances, go much further. I think this adds to the slow erosion of our civil liberties, freedom of choice and, indeed, human rights.

[Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

On the right hon. Gentleman’s point about his own pension fund, I do not think there would be many countries left in which it could invest. I understand his concerns about pension funds making ethical investments, but the pension fund also has a fiduciary duty to sustain the fund, and to make investments in that respect and for future pensioners who will draw on it. How can he reconcile the two positions?

[John McDonnell]

I was once, in my callow youth, an adviser to the mineworkers pension scheme, and then I was an adviser at the TUC, working with Lord Bryn Davies, who is one of our colleagues in the Lords at the moment, and there was never a problem with our fiduciary duty of maximising the income to the pension fund itself because of the range of investment opportunities available to us. I think we found in the past that exercising such moral judgment can prove effective in the long term, because it ensures that the fund is not investing in countries that may in the longer term become unstable as a result of the actions they take. I would just say, and I am making a personal point, that I think new clause 1 flies against my ability to exercise my moral duties about investments by my pension fund.

COP26 and Air Pollution

Debate between Dan Poulter and John McDonnell

Tuesday 2nd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

At the moment, the Prime Minister is still at COP. There will be a major discussion around air pollution and what can be done globally, but we need to ensure we are acting locally as well, so I want to raise the issue of air pollution in London overall, particularly in relation to Heathrow airport.

In the 1970s, when we agreed to the expansion of Heathrow airport through a fourth terminal, it was about jobs. At that point, we had our first inkling of what air pollution could do to the overall environment, as well as to individual health. Since then, we know so much more, which is why the inspector in the fifth terminal inquiry recommended that there should be no further expansion at Heathrow on environmental grounds. Yet the Government still have the potential for a third runway at Heathrow on their policy cards.

The latest information is that Heathrow and the area around it is the second major hotspot for nitrogen dioxide pollution in London. It breaches the legal limits, and has done for many years. To be frank, the roads around Heathrow are above the legal limits, including for PM_2.5 and nitrogen dioxide, and have been for at least the last decade. We now know much more about the impact of that on the health of people in the west London area, with links to respiratory and heart conditions, and, thanks to work in the United States, we know that this is linked to cancer as well. We cannot go to COP and argue with other countries about the need to tackle air pollution while we allow such polluting expansions as the third runway. It is a stark example of the impact on people’s health.

I have raised in this Chamber before the fact that children in my local schools have to hand their puffers into a special box and our teachers in Hillingdon have to be specially trained to deal with respiratory conditions in those children. If we are talking seriously about COP and the impact we are having on our environment, there has to be a time when we draw a line under Heathrow expansion. I believe that this is it.

We have never had a full health impact assessment of the third runway expansion. We have had some health impact analyses, all of which have said that there will be an increase in mortality and morbidity linked to respiratory and other conditions.

[Dr Poulter]

I agree with much of the sentiment of what the right hon. Gentleman says. He and I may disagree about some of the issues and merits or demerits of the recent Budget, but I am sure we will agree that the cut in air passenger duty for short haul flights was a slight disappointment. Does he agree with me that that is something that the Chancellor might want to reconsider?

[John McDonnell]

I made that point in the debate on the Budget, and I do not want to be repetitious. The issue for me is that any tax relief or tax reduction that either promotes further emissions or supports those polluting our environment is clearly contrary to Government policy, as far as I can see. On that basis, I hope that, as a result of COP, in the next few weeks or perhaps months the Government will firmly come down as opposed to further Heathrow expansion.