Awards for Valour (Protection) Bill

Debate between Lord Mackinlay of Richborough and Gareth Johnson

Friday 25th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) for introducing the Bill. We are very aware that today is Black Friday. I note that my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) is present, and he will doubtless be joined by my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall). May I recommend that they do a bit of discounting in their interventions, and perhaps go shopping? We have much business to conduct, not least my own later in the day.

Much has been said about the nature of people who wear false medals, or wear medals falsely. They do it primarily to deceive. While we may have a view on the Walter Mitty Hunters Club, whose activities are perhaps a little aggressive at times, it is in the nature of such people to try to advance themselves in the community and to create a standing that they simply have not earned. My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford demonstrated ably how manipulative they are. They seek admission to an exclusive club when they have not earned the right. They often join parades on Remembrance Day, when we as the public pay particular tribute to what people who earned their medals have done in the service of this country.

There is already a certain amount of legislation that can help us. When financial fraud results from the use of this standing that has not been earned, it can carry up to 10 years’ imprisonment. I know of no cases thus far in which that legislation has been applied to people who have used medals for their own advantage, but I am sure that there are a number of cases out there. My hon. Friend mentioned a local councillor—no longer a councillor, in fact—who may be an example.

Other Members have mentioned mental health. I am sure that many people who use medals that they have not earned for their own advantage, in an attempt to gain some standing, have mental health issues to a degree, but there is plenty to cover that in the criminal code. It would be up to the police, then the Crown Prosecution Service, and then, of course, the courts to determine the mental state of such people. That is normal and proper practice in other parts of the criminal code. I therefore do not think that mental health issues would be a problem if the Bill were passed.

The main reason why I am supporting my hon. Friend’s Bill is for its deterrent effect. We have no deterrents, following the Armed Forces Act 2006, which sadly dropped the old Army Act 1955 offence; prior to that, there was the offence in Winston Churchill’s Act after the first world war. Apart from having a deterrent effect, the Bill will create certainty for the public: we will be absolutely sure when we see veterans that we can pay an appropriate tribute to them and honour them, knowing that they are the real deal and have earned what they are displaying. So there are two benefits to my hon. Friend’s Bill.

There was discussion about the appropriate penalty. Three months’ imprisonment has been suggested, although there could be an opportunity for community payback —a certain number of hours worked in the community. That would probably be the more likely outcome through the courts, but that would be decided on a case-by-case basis.

[Gareth Johnson]

I mentioned Roger Day; he was the last person prosecuted under the 1955 Act, although the Act had expired a few days beforehand. The court gave him community service, as it was at the time, which shows that courts often feel that a community penalty is appropriate, but this has to be an imprisonable offence in order to make those penalties available to the court.

[Craig Mackinlay]

Absolutely; my hon. Friend gives a good account of his knowledge of the law in such cases.

What greater community payback could there be for people convicted under my hon. Friend’s proposed legislation than to do service to war widows, perhaps, or war graves, or the great memorials around our country by repairing and cleansing them? I want to mention the case of Kevan or Konnor Collins in my constituency. He was elected as a UK Independence party councillor last year. He made a remarkable array of claims: that he had served in the Paras, and had been awarded an MBE, the Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, the Military Cross, and the Distinguished Service Cross. If that had been true, he would have been the most decorated veteran in the entire country. He was outed online.

Dog Theft: Sentencing

Debate between Lord Mackinlay of Richborough and Gareth Johnson

Wednesday 2nd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Johnson]

I certainly do. I agree with everything the hon. Gentleman says. It is one of those offences where the emotional loss is not catered for in the guidelines. It does not just relate to dog theft and other animals but to personal items. The emotional impact of the theft of family photographs belonging to family members who have passed away is not properly taken into account when the courts are sentencing offenders either.

Courts cannot place dog thefts in the top half of offending categories unless the dog has a high monetary value, and that is not always the case. It means there is a greater chance of prison for the theft of a pedigree than there is for the theft of a mongrel. This approach completely fails to understand the nature of dog theft. The impact an offence like this has on a victim is not even mentioned in the list of aggravating factors that the court should take into account. Dog theft is now seen as an easy way of making money with little chance of a prison sentence imposed on the offender. In fact, under the current guidelines it is very difficult for a court to imprison someone for the theft of a dog that is worth less in monetary terms than £500. It is no wonder, then, that these offences are on the increase.

I fully accept that the Sentencing Council cannot cater for every type of theft and that it has an extremely difficult job, but there needs to be a greater appreciation of the emotional impact an offence can have on an individual.

[Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con)]

I applaud my hon. Friend for securing this debate. I am a dog owner and have been a magistrate for some 10 years. I have never actually seen a dog theft in my years as a magistrate, which is to the good, but I can very much imagine the anguish it would cause. From memory, the sentencing band for a low level theft would be probably from a conditional discharge to a fine, and perhaps in extremis a low level community order. I am sure it would be far more beneficial for the victim impact statement to have a far greater bearing, and the ability to go to a small custodial sentence may be the way forward in such cases.

[Gareth Johnson]

I completely agree with everything my hon. Friend has said. I am not surprised that he has not seen one of these cases because of the difficulty of bringing them to court. The problem brings us back to the over-reliance on the monetary value of the item stolen. If I were to sell my scruffy mutt, I would be lucky to get a fiver for it, quite frankly—but that rather misses the point. I would sooner have my mobile phone or even my car stolen than my dog. It is not a chattel and should not be treated as such. A distinction should be made when it comes to sentencing.

I have seen posters in my local area and my constituency seeking lost dogs, and they often say something like “reward—no questions asked”. This problem is thus going on under the radar of the authorities, which is why we do not see as many cases going to court as we should. The deterrent factor that a prison sentence would offer is often missing, yet this is an offence that causes misery for thousands of people around our country.

The message to people who are thinking of buying a dog is that they should do so only from a reputable source. There are some excellent organisations helping to tackle this problem: Blue Cross, Dog Theft Action and Dog Lost, which commended much of the work carried out on this by my local Kent police force and a few other forces as well. Yet if the criminal justice system allows those who commit these offences to walk away with light penalties, this problem will only grow and grow.