European Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 23rd March 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

Although my hon. Friend and I do not always see eye to eye on issues European, he is making a strong point. We have not seen much of a boost to the British economy from the eurozone because it has been relatively stagnant. We have had to achieve economic recovery by selling to other parts of the world and getting our own economy moving. If we do see a recovery in the eurozone—which we hope to—that will obviously be very good news for Britain.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

If we ask a group of lawyers their opinion on whether TTIP would apply to the NHS, we will get as many answers as there are lawyers. The Prime Minister cannot get away with saying that it will not apply, because by opening up the NHS to market tendering and market forces in the way he did with the Health and Social Care Act 2012, he has opened the door to treaties such as TTIP applying to the national health service. That is the problem he needs to protect the NHS against.

[The Prime Minister]

I am baffled by Labour’s position on this as I thought it was a party that believed in free trade and backing Britain’s exporters. There are so many areas where we are disadvantaged in our trade with America and where we could be creating jobs and growth, but instead Labour Members want to read out a script handed to them by the trade unions to oppose the trade deal. It makes you weep for the time when the Labour party was in favour of progress and trade.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 25th February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

What we are going to do is continue spending record sums on broadband roll-out. We have seen across the country that it is almost double from the 40% we inherited. There is more to do in the most rural areas, including the hon. Lady’s constituency. All local councils now have searchable websites so people can see when they expect broadband to get to their area. We need to look at creative solutions to make sure we get to the last 5%. It is a very important part of our long-term economic plan. That can only be secured by a Conservative majority Government.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q12. I welcome the fact that the Government have been forced to accept our demands for people to be protected when buying tickets in the secondary ticketing market. If the Government had listened to us last year, thousands of rugby world cup and Ashes cricket fans would have been saved from having to pay more than face value for tickets. Why are the Government always on the side of people like bankers, tax dodgers and the organised gangs behind ticket touting in the secondary ticketing market, and never on the side of ordinary people in the street?

[The Prime Minister]

This is something that has happened after four and a half years of a Conservative Prime Minister that never happened after 13 years of a Labour Prime Minister. I will tell the hon. Gentleman whose side we are on: we are on the side of working people, because we are getting them jobs, we are cutting their taxes, and we are helping with child care. We sit opposite a party that is the party of Len McCluskey and the trade unions.

European Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 23rd February 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Anyone who watched the mother of one of the young girls on television last night, saying that all she wanted was for her to come home, could not help but be moved by her testimony. Of course we need our police and border security to do everything they can to prevent people from travelling in such circumstances, but we also need schools, universities and colleges to put aside concerns about cultural sensitivities and such like, and ensure that they are doing everything they can to tackle people who are at risk of radicalisation. This problem is quite similar in some ways to that of forced marriage, where people have disappeared from schools in parts of the country where there has not been proper advertising and protection in the schools, and to the problem of female genital mutilation. It is happening on an enormous scale and that is why we need to take such action.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Many people are working in our communities to try to prevent young people from becoming radicalised. I recently met a youth worker from my local Islamic centre who is concerned that the Prevent work he is doing may come to an end at the end of March, and he has not heard about any future funding. I support what the Prime Minister has said today, but when he next meets the Home Secretary will he ensure that organisations in our communities that are doing excellent work are given some security about future funding, so that they can continue doing it?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly look at what the hon. Gentleman has said, but from what I have seen, particularly after announcements made in the light of Woolwich, Prevent funding has increased and the money is there. As I said, we have tried to divide that money between the Prevent work, which includes a programme of channelling people who have been radicalised away from radicalisation, and a lot of community work that is about integration and supporting things such as the Big Iftar, and encouraging mosques and community centres to open themselves up and for others to come in. That has been a great success.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 28th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

It is important that we make decisions based on what will be best for patients. My view is that there is a role for the independent sector within the NHS, but it has only gone from something like 5% of the total to 6% of the total. [Interruption.] It is no good Opposition Members shouting about privatisation: it was their decision to allow this hospital to be run by the private sector. Frankly, on a day when they are in complete confusion about their health policy, we have the shadow Health Secretary saying he opposes all of this but cannot say what percentage should be in the private sector; we have his deputy saying that they want to see more of the NHS in the private sector; we have the Leader of the Opposition refusing to confirm that his shadow Secretary of State has his full confidence—yet this is meant to be Labour’s great big election-winning idea. What a complete shambles!

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q10. The Prime Minister, his Chancellor and the entire Conservative party like to talk about their “economic plan”. An independent report published yesterday by a group of academics—[Interruption.] I can wait. The report shows that welfare cuts contributed merely to cutting tax for higher earners and contributed nothing to reducing the deficit. It also shows that families with children under the age of five have been the hardest hit. What future is there for the country with an economic plan that steals from the poor and gives it to the rich?

[The Prime Minister]

It is the “long-term economic plan”, by the way.

Let me tell the hon. Gentleman how things are going in his own constituency. Never mind the academics; let us see what is happening for working people in his constituency. The number of people claiming unemployment benefit is down by 31%, the youth claimant count is down by 34%, and the long-term youth claimant count is down by 57% in the last year alone. If we look across London, we can see 470,000 more people in work, and more than half a million private sector jobs have been created.

What I want to know is this: when did the Labour party become the welfare party? When did that happen? It is Members on this side of the House who are standing up for hard-working people, and who are on the side of work and on the side of enterprise, reforming work and, yes, reforming welfare to make that happen.

Murder of Lee Rigby

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Tuesday 25th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right on both bases. We cannot always praise and point out what the security and intelligence services have done, but since I have been Prime Minister there has been at least one major plot every year and this year already at least four plots have been avoided by the work of the security services, so we should thank them for what they do.

On the issue of the internet, I would put it like this. Historically, Governments have always decided that, whether it is people sending each other letters, making fixed-line telephone calls, mobile telephone calls, or sending e-mails, in extremis, on the basis of a warrant signed by the Home Secretary, it is okay to intercept that call, letter or e-mail. The question we must ask is: are we prepared to have a means of communication—the internet and a number of modern methods—that we are not able to intercept? My answer is clear: we should not accept that. We should legislate to ensure that that is the case. I think that that is in the finest traditions of having law that is in favour of security but also in favour of liberty. However, the whole House at some stage will have to come to a view on that.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I associate myself with the comments of my right hon. Friend the Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Mr Raynsford). Greenwich borough has a long association with the garrison at Woolwich and the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby was felt particularly powerfully by our local community. May I press the Prime Minister a little more on internet companies? It seems extraordinary that we do not have the co-operation of the companies that are overseas. It seems to me that we need to negotiate and take action at Government level. What is taking place at that level to ensure that, where such companies do not co-operate, regulations are put in place to compel them to do so?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman asks the key question. We are both updating—we did that over the summer—and applying our legislation on the basis that we believe that what matters is whether companies provide services in this country, not where they are based. On that basis, companies should comply with warrants and requests. Therefore, we are progressing that, but at the same time we are trying to deal with one of the sources of the problem, which is the interaction between UK law and American law, specifically the US Wiretap Act. Sir Nigel Sheinwald is holding conversations with America-based companies and the American Government to try to find a way through so we get higher levels of co-operation. However, the levels of co-operation have increased, not least because of the important legislation that this House passed in the summer.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 19th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. In North West Norfolk the claimant count is down by 50% since the election and the youth claimant count is coming down by 52% in the last year alone. The figures released today show that people who have been in work for a year or more have seen their wages go up by 4%—more than twice the rate of inflation. And of course that is their wages before the tax reductions this Government have made because we have been a careful steward of the nation’s finances. What we would get with Labour is no growth, no jobs and higher taxes.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister apparently admits that his top-down reorganisation of the national health service and the Act that imposed it were mistakes. My Bill on Friday is an opportunity for him to put right some of those mistakes and repeal the parts of that Act that imposed privatisation on our NHS. The Bill is backed by the British Medical Association, the Royal College of Nursing, the Royal College of Midwives, Unison, Unite and the GMB—who represent the workers. Never have so many people been united against the Government about an Act that imposed so much on the national health service. Will he back my Bill on Friday and tell people that the national health service is not for sale—not now, not ever?

[The Prime Minister]

At least we now know who is paying for the hon. Gentleman’s Bill—that is one thing. Let me make a couple of points to him. Independent providers made up 5% of the NHS under Labour and they now make up just 6% of the NHS. The Government who had the sweetheart deals with the independent sector were the Labour Government, who handed it money in return for contracts. This is what we see in the NHS: 2,500 more nurses; 8,000 more doctors; and more patients being treated. We see an NHS that is succeeding because we made the reforms and we put in the money.

European Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 27th October 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. Whatever view people take about whether Britain should be in the European Union or out of the European Union, there is only one way to secure that referendum.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Given that the recalculation of GNI has been known about for two years, it is a bit rich for the Prime Minister to say that he wants to understand the detail of the methodology. Should he not have been engaging with that recalculation and investigating its exact implications on behalf of the British people?

[The Prime Minister]

As I have explained, these calculations take place every year, but not normally on the scale that has happened this year. It was only on the Friday before the European Council meeting that the figures were available.

Ukraine (Flight MH17) and Gaza

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I think it is likely. It may not go as far as I would like, but I think that when we are dealing with an organisation of 28 members, some of whom are heavily reliant on Russia for gas or financial services or whatever, it is always difficult. However, I think what we have seen is outrageous, and in the end this depends on what Russia’s actions are. Russia can relieve the sanctions pressure by making sure there is access to that site and that it stops supporting the Ukrainian rebels. If it does those things, there will not be the sanctions pressure, but if it does not, there will be.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I unequivocally condemn the firing of rockets into Israel by Hamas, but the Prime Minister has to accept that the response from Israel is disproportionate. The disregard for the safety of innocent civilians, whether they are in Israel or Gaza or in an aeroplane over Ukraine, is unacceptable, and international law must be applied. On Ukraine, is the Prime Minister satisfied that western banks applied the proper criteria when money was being hollowed out of the finances within Ukraine and smuggled out of that country and into bank accounts in the west? It has led to the situation in Ukraine today. Will he ensure at tomorrow’s meeting of Foreign Ministers that an investigation is instigated into that?

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly look at the point the hon. Gentleman makes with regard to Ukrainian banks and the money that has been taken out, and I will mention it to my colleague the Foreign Secretary who will be attending that meeting.

European Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 30th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am a believer in this: when we sign up to something, we should stick to it and deliver what we said we would do. With the European budget, we achieved a cut over the seven-year financial framework which will effectively mean lower European budgets. Our battle now is to make sure that the EU sticks to that, and does not find new and innovative ways of spending money.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The debate about our future role in Europe would be better informed if we knew what the red-line issues were that would force the Prime Minister to recommend a no vote in his referendum. Will he say when he will let the public know what those red line issues are, so that they can have a more informed debate about Europe?

[The Prime Minister]

Perhaps I could send the hon. Gentleman a copy of my article in The Sunday Telegraph and of the Bloomberg speech, which set out the key areas, including ever-closer union, that are so important.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 26th March 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I know that my hon. Friend’s constituency has suffered repeatedly from flooding, and I have visited it twice in recent years to discuss it with him and with local people and businesses. Let me make two points. As he knows, any future developments have to comply with the national planning policy, which makes it clear that inappropriate development in areas at risk of flooding should be avoided. Secondly, and more importantly, in 95% of cases where the Environment Agency objects to planning on flood-risk grounds, the final decision is in line with agency advice.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q13. When bankers’ salaries have gone up by five times the rate of ordinary workers’ salaries and the top 100 chief executive officers are earning 133 times more than the average worker in their companies, is it not right that those on the highest incomes contribute the most through tax? With that in mind, will the Prime Minister rule out any consideration of a further cut in the highest rate of tax for the richest 1%?

[The Prime Minister]

We have said that that is not our priority, but I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the richest should be paying more in income tax and making a bigger contribution. Under this Government, that is exactly what is happening. In a way, that is what is interesting about the Opposition’s argument. They cannot talk about jobs because there are more of them. They cannot talk about inflation because it has come down, and they cannot talk about the deficit because we are cutting it. They have one argument left, which is about fairness. If they look at the figures, they will see that inequality is at its lowest level since 1986: 1 million fewer people are in relative poverty and half a million fewer children are in child poverty than when Opposition Members were in the Cabinet. The facts show that the Government are not only delivering recovery but delivering it fairly, too.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I congratulate my hon. Friend on everything she has done in recent weeks to highlight the importance of Portsmouth and all matters maritime, in the broadest sense of the word?

I am aware of this interesting project, and I understand there will be a meeting with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills shortly. It is testament to the excellent reputation of Portsmouth that there is so much interest in this commercial sector, which my hon. Friend, I and the whole Government want to see expand. The appointment of a Minister for Portsmouth, my right hon. Friend the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), will make a big difference. It is good news that the youth claimant count has fallen so quickly in Portsmouth, but we must stick to the economic plan and keep delivering for Portsmouth.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q6. Increasingly in London, young people are finding it impossible to afford to rent or buy a home, so why, under this Government, are we seeing the lowest number of housing starts since the 1920s and a housing bubble driven by wealthy overseas buyers?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 16th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I share my hon. Friend’s concern. One of the people involved is a constituent of mine. We need to follow this case extremely closely, and that is exactly what the Foreign Office is doing. A Foreign Office Minister had a meeting, which I am sure my hon. Friend attended, and we are daily seeking updates from the Russian Government about how those people are being treated.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q4. Last week, in answer to a question on his marriage tax policy, the Prime Minister said that“all married couples paying basic rate tax will benefit from this move.”—[Official Report, 9 October 2013; Vol. 568, c. 151.]That was not correct, was it? Will he confirm that?

[The Prime Minister]

What I said was that the married couples tax allowance tax is available to all couples who are on basic rate tax. Anyone who has unused tax allowance is able to transfer it between the husband or the wife. It comes back to a very simple principle: we want to back marriage in the tax system. We do not want to do so only in the inheritance tax system, as the Labour party did; we want to back marriage for less well-off couples. If the shadow Chancellor wants to raise another point of order, I am very happy to stick around and hear it out.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 26th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in that. I think it is a very important cause, because we have had several problems with school meals over the years. They are not attractive enough for young people who want to take them, and there are also problems with obesity, so getting this right, which has been happening over recent years, is extremely important. I speak as someone with two children who enjoy their school meals, and I want the school to go on winning the battle for school meals, rather than parents having to make the packed lunches.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The revelation that the Metropolitan police may have withheld evidence from the Macpherson inquiry has rightly been met with public derision, but the Prime Minister’s answer earlier on really did not go far enough. The public are not satisfied by the police investigating the police, nor will an inquiry held in secret, no matter how eminent the QC, satisfy public opinion. Will the Prime Minister now give an undertaking to hold a public inquiry with the power to summon people and hear evidence under oath?

[The Prime Minister]

As I said earlier, I rule absolutely nothing out. We have got to get to the bottom of this. But to be fair, this is not the Metropolitan police investigating the Metropolitan police. Two inquiries are under way. One is led by Mark Ellison QC, who played a very major role in prosecuting some of those responsible and who met the Home Secretary today, and the second is led by the chief constable of Derbyshire police force. We need to make sure that they have all the powers and everything that they need. But as I said very clearly, if we need to go further to get to the truth, we will.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 23rd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise this. Because Britain is meeting its promises on money for aid, we are best placed to make the arguments about what I call the golden thread, which is all the things that help move countries from poverty to wealth: making sure that there is the proper rule of law, democratic systems, accountability, a free press and property rights. We will be making the argument in the G8. We need greater transparency about land ownership, greater transparency about companies and greater transparency about tax. These are all arguments that Britain will be pushing in the year ahead.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q3. Can the Prime Minister confirm that his Government are the first for 30 years not to offer hard-pressed consumers a Government-funded energy efficiency scheme, following the closure of Warm Front last week?

[The Prime Minister]

No. The energy company obligation scheme is many times the size of the Warm Front scheme. Warm Front helped 80,000 families a year, but ECO could help up to 230,000 families a year, so it is a bigger and potentially better scheme.

EU Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 2nd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

With reference to the answer that the Prime Minister gave to the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Matthew Hancock), if he genuinely believes that some of the actions of Barclays bank bordered on the criminal, will he now call for the resignation of Mr Bob Diamond?

[The Prime Minister]

I do not think it is for Prime Ministers to hire and fire bank chiefs. Mr Diamond will have to make himself accountable to his shareholders, and to this House when he answers questions on Wednesday. As I have said, I think he has some serious questions to answer.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will look very carefully at what my hon. Friend says. Almost 60% of regional growth fund projects are now under way, and the money has been distributed in very many cases, but I will look specifically at this project, which does sound interesting and worth while. As I understand it, it involves radio astronomy and satellite management. It will bring to Cornwall high-tech jobs that it wants and needs, so I will do my best to make sure it happens.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

A third of south-east London health care trusts’ deficit is due to the private finance initiative. Is not the Secretary of State for Health wrong to suggest that the entire deficit is due to the PFI? Should he not be working with local health managers to deal with the situation rather than imposing an outside administrator to cut local health services?

[The Prime Minister]

First, it is this Government who are putting more money into the NHS this year, next year, and the year after. Some of these NHS trusts, such as the one the hon. Gentleman mentions, do have enormous deficits, and a large part of that is down to the completely failed PFI systems that the previous Government put in place. In hospitals up and down the country, it costs £120 to reset an alarm, £466 to replace a light fitting—[Interruption.] Labour Members are shouting from a sedentary position that these were Conservative PFIs. They were not—every single one of them was put in place under a Labour Government. Yet again, time for an apology.

EU Council

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I am always grateful for my hon. Friend’s support but he tends to take it just a little too far. The coalition is right for Britain and I want it to go on working for the good of Britain. We have to recognise that that sometimes means we cannot get the things we want.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Will the Prime Minister explain specifically what safeguards are in place today for the City of London and British interests that were not in place last week?

[The Prime Minister]

Clearly, if we had been able to achieve the protocol on financial services there would have been greater safeguards, but the safeguard we do have is that we are not signing up to a treaty that could have put that industry in danger.

Public Disorder

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Thursday 11th August 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I will certainly look at what my hon. Friend says. Of course, the age of criminal responsibility is 10, and we do not have any proposals to change that, but she raises an important issue about whether the police at any moment needed to hang back because of the very young age of the looters—some of the people doing the looting were under the age of 10—and I will certainly get back to her about that.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

For the past two nights in my constituency, I have had a very heavy police presence, owing to right-wing extremist groups focusing on Eltham and trying to create unrest and bad feeling between different racial groups. Although we want to support people who are public-spirited and come out to defend their communities, as some of my constituents have done, will the Prime Minister join me in asking those people not to be diverted from their efforts by those extremists who seek to exploit the situation?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman speaks not only for his constituents, but, frankly, for the whole House in deprecating the English Defence League and all it stands for. On its attempt to say that it will somehow help to restore order, I have described some parts of our society as sick, and there is none sicker than the EDL.

Public Confidence in the Media and Police

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 20th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

When the Prime Minister was Leader of the Opposition, was phone hacking discussed in any of his meetings with John Yates or any other Metropolitan police officer?

[The Prime Minister]

I have had a range of meetings with John Yates over the past year, mostly about terrorism—[Interruption.] I do not recall every single conversation that I have had; you would be mad to pretend that you do. You would need to be superhuman to remember every conversation that you have. I do know that almost all the conversations that I have had with John Yates over the past year have been about terrorist issues. The key point about my chief of staff’s e-mail was that he was trying to ensure that the police did not do anything inappropriate.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 29th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes an extremely good point, and I note that we are 26 minutes into Question Time yet we have not heard a squeak from Labour Members about strikes, pensions or the need for reform. Because they are all paid for by the trade unions, they cannot talk about this issue. What the coalition Government are doing is right, because we are saying that we want to have a defined benefit system in the public sector. We want to make sure all those accrued rights are kept, and people will still be able to take those accrued rights at the age they were originally allowed to take them. Just to put this beyond doubt, when people who are currently in a final salary scheme get the accrued benefits, they will be based on their final salary; not their final salary now or when the reforms go through, but the final salary when they retire. As so much myth and misinformation has been put around by some in the trade unions, it is important to put that on the record here in the House.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Compared with the same period last year, crime overall in London is up, including a 15% rise in robbery and an 18% rise in burglary. At the same time the Mayor of London has budgeted to cut 1,800 police officers. Is this the right time to be doing that, and will the Prime Minister get a grip in London?

Japan and the Middle East

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 14th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend speaks with great expertise about these matters. There is an Arab face on this already because of what the Arab League and the Gulf Co-operation Council have said, and that makes a big difference. When we speak to Arab leaders in the Gulf, they are very clear—unanimous, even—that Gaddafi has to go, the regime cannot continue, it is not legitimate and the situation is bad for the region. I think there would be support were a no-fly zone to happen—not only verbal support but, I hope, military support as well.

I cannot be specific about the two countries that my hon. Friend mentions. Obviously Egypt has all sorts of challenges in front of it at the moment, but I have had personal strong support from other Gulf leaders on this issue.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

The fact that arms that could have been sold by this country and many other western countries are being used against the people fighting for freedom in Libya highlights the unacceptable nature of the arms trade. Were there any discussions at the European Union about the possibility of international agreement about who we should deal with regarding arms in the future, to prevent such circumstances from coming about?

[The Prime Minister]

There was not that discussion at the European Council on Friday, because we were really talking about the two issues of the immediate situation in Libya and the neighbourhood policy that Europe should have towards north Africa and countries that are yearning for democracy.

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that we have to consider such issues closely. I do not believe that the arms trade is always and everywhere a bad thing, because small countries have a right to defend themselves. A responsible trade, properly regulated, is acceptable, but although we have some of the toughest rules, we have to ask ourselves, “Are they working, and how can we improve on them?”

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Wednesday 19th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I can give my hon. Friend a positive answer. The Localism Bill addresses that issue. As well as doing that, it is important that where local communities are affected by things such as onshore wind, they should make sure that they benefit from those developments. The Localism Bill brings a whole new approach that will much better settle this difficult debate than what has been done until now.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Q15. Today, there is an order before Parliament to proscribe the TTP—Tehrik-e Taliban Pakistan—the Pakistan Taliban. Just one week into the term of office of the Prime Minister’s predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), the right hon. Gentleman demanded to know why my right hon. Friend had not proscribed Hizb ut-Tahrir. Just eight months into the Prime Minister’s term of office, can he explain to the House why he has not fulfilled his manifesto commitment?

[The Prime Minister]

We could put it another way round: why did the last Government have 13 years, yet the Pakistani Taliban were never banned? It has taken us eight months to do what they failed to do in 12 years.

G8 and G20 Summits

Debate between Clive Efford and Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton

Monday 28th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right. There were discussions about what could be done, such as having international bodies at the various crossing points to try to examine what is being brought in. The change that has taken place is encouraging on one level because instead of effectively banning everything, Israel has listed those things that it will not allow in, which should lead to increased humanitarian capacity in Gaza. That has a very long way to go, and everybody knows that we are not going to sort out the problem of the middle east peace process while there is, effectively, a giant open prison in Gaza.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

Were there any discussions about the possibility of one of our European neighbours falling into further recession? In that eventuality, what contingencies would be considered?

[The Prime Minister]

There are great concerns, particularly in the eurozone, about the sovereign debt and other problems that countries face. We should be constructive. As I have said before, I do not think that we should join the euro. In my view, we should never join the euro. However, the eurozone is important to us, and those countries sorting out their problems is important to us. We should not stand in their way if they want to take steps to do that. The key point for us is not putting more money in and not passing powers from London to Brussels. Inasmuch as those countries find ways of sorting out their problems, we should back them.