Building Safety Bill

Debate between Clive Betts and Seema Malhotra

2nd reading
Wednesday 21st July 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

Welcome to the Chair, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is good to see you there.

The Housing, Communities and Local Government Committee did pre-legislative scrutiny on the Bill—it is a technical Bill, which we went through line by line and made recommendations—and I think that shows how the House should operate. I thank the Government, and the Minister for Building Safety and Communities in particular, for taking it seriously, responding to all our points in great detail and talking to us about it.

The Committee still have some concerns and wrote again to the Minister the other day about what we think is missing. One thing, of course, is building control. Developers should not be able to appoint their own building control inspectors, because that is a conflict of interest.

On risk, it is not height alone that makes buildings risky. A one-storey care home is potentially risky, and that must be taken into account in the role of the building safety regulator.

The Government are to come forward with proposals on the qualifications and training of everyone working on high-rise buildings. That is really important, because currently an electrician rewiring a flat in a high-rise development does not have to be qualified. Their employer must be part of a competent person scheme, but the individual does not have to be qualified anywhere in the building industry. Those matters need addressing now in the Bill.

[Seema Malhotra]

I thank my hon. Friend for all the work he does on his Committee. He made an important point about the independence of building control. Does he agree that it causes a considerable lack of confidence when people who have bought properties find they have no recourse and that there is a real question about the role of local authorities in building control?

[Mr Betts]

There are major issues about the independence of building control not just on the highest-rise buildings but right throughout the building industry. The Select Committee report drew attention to that.

On product testing, we await the Government’s proposals. Hackitt identified that the product testing regime is broken and needs fixing, and the Committee stands by its view that if a product that has gone to testing and failed a test comes commercially to the market, that information should be made available publicly. That is important information. The Government rejected that recommendation, but I hope they might consider it further.

It is very difficult to make comprehensive sense of the statement published today. I hope that the Secretary of State will accept an invitation to come to the Select Committee after the summer recess and discuss the matter with us in more detail. Whatever the statement says, it still leaves out buildings over 18 metres that have defects that are not just about cladding. Even when cladding defects have been put right, people are facing bills of £50,000 that they cannot afford. Where is the help for those leaseholders? It is not anywhere in the Bill.

I turn to buildings between 11 and 18 metres. I do not understand how the Secretary of State can say that systemic defects were not found in those buildings. Where does cladding fit into that? Will the removal of combustible cladding from buildings between 11 and 18 metres no longer be required? If it is still required, who will pay for it? The Government floated the idea of a loan scheme, but there is no reference to that in the Bill. Has the loan scheme been ditched? We need clarification on these important issues because leaseholders need certainty that they are not going to have to face these bills.

There are important issues in the Bill. It is generally to be welcomed. There are still issues that we want the Government to go further on, but the explanation in this statement of who is going to pay for some of the costs that the building safety fund does not cover is still an essential matter that the Government need to think again about.

Leasehold Reform

Debate between Clive Betts and Seema Malhotra

Thursday 21st March 2019 Commons Chamber

[Mr Betts]

There are circumstances where leaseholders can do that—ultimately, they could move to a form of commonhold, although that requires substantial agreement among themselves, and many elderly leaseholders might not want to go down that road without lots of explanation and help. One of our concerns was that there is not much help or publicity about that process, and that issue could be looked at. Service charges are often terribly opaque, and proper information is not provided. The right to challenge is not explained, and challenge through a tribunal is difficult. Another thing that would help is a simpler housing court system, which we hear the Government are going to introduce. The quicker they do that, the better.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend and the Select Committee on the report, which is incredibly hard-hitting. My constituents, such as Pamela Rose Canales and other Camellia House residents who contributed evidence, greatly appreciate it. I believe the report is a game-changer. This issue has been bubbling away in this House, and we now have a real opportunity to fundamentally review and change legislation in this area. May I pick up on three very brief recommendations he has made, and ask how quickly he thinks they could be taken forward?

The first relates to the prevention of the ability of landlords to recoup their legal fees from those against whom they lose their case. Secondly, in my experience, paying the service charge has not been the issue. People are happy to pay a fair service charge. As my hon. Friend says, the issue is the lack of transparency and justification, and the unpredictable nature of additional charges that can just appear throughout the year. Perhaps with the housing court that he mentioned, changes could come in quickly.

Finally, how quickly could the Law Commission be asked by the Government to undertake a comprehensive review, bearing in mind that it could take 12 to 18 months? We want the legislative changes to be introduced as quickly as possible.

[Mr Betts]

On the first point, if a leaseholder at a tribunal asks at the beginning for a ruling that, if they win, costs cannot be passed on to the freeholder, the tribunal can so rule. The problem is that many leaseholders do not know about that requirement. The Government could do an awful lot immediately to publicise that.

Secondly, on service charges, we recommend that a standard format should be brought in, so that all leaseholders know what to expect and all information is given to them in a proper manner. The Government could publish guidance without having to wait for primary legislation. We hope that they will look at doing that very quickly.

On the Law Commission, I do not know how long it would take it to report, but the Government could make an immediate decision to ask it to produce a report. However, the Law Commission made it very clear to us that it currently does not have the resources in its budget to do that. It would need the Government to offer, and provide, sufficient funding.