Elected Mayors

Chris Williamson Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Westminster Hall

[Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)]

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) on securing the debate, which has been interesting, although sparsely attended, and I have enjoyed the contributions immensely. He summarised effectively the background to the present situation and the previous Government’s proposals on executive mayors, as set out in the Local Government Act 2000 and the Local Government and Public Involvement in Health Act 2007. I agree with his comments on an enhanced role for councillors. Perhaps I should declare an interest, as I am still an elected member of Derby city council, which is a unitary authority. Having been a councillor for nearly 20 years, I absolutely believe that it is fundamentally important that we enhance the role of local councillors. I am not sure about his support for personality politics, which occasionally creeps into our political system. I think that politics should be more about values and what we stand for when we run for political parties or as independents, rather than the cult of personality.

[John Stevenson]

I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, but does not he agree that personality politics has already entered our political system as a result of the televised leadership debates that were introduced in the run-up to the general election? The personalities of the leaders dominated the headlines for days.

[Chris Williamson]

Indeed, I do agree, but in a way that supports my point, because to some extent that obscured the policies and values that the political parties represented. It was more about the individuals who were speaking in those television debates. To some extent that is regrettable, but perhaps it was inevitable, now that the genie is out of the bottle.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned localism, which is something I support, so long as it is democratic localism. I do not like the notion of locally elected institutions being bypassed. People understand local authorities, and I would like more powers to be vested in them, rather than for their current duties to pass, for example, to the voluntary sector.

My hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South (Sir Peter Soulsby) has extensive experience in local government and is highly respected in that world. He represented Leicester as the leader of the council with great credit for many years. He referred to the need for improved scrutiny, and I agree that there could be some improvements, but it is important to note that the previous Government did extend the scope of scrutiny. Part of the problem is the time required to fulfil the scrutiny role effectively, because most councillors hold down full-time jobs, so perhaps we should look at the time made available to them to fulfil that role. That comes to the thorny question of allowances, because unless people have substantial means or are retired, they will find it difficult to spend the necessary time to make scrutiny as effective as it could be.

[Sir Peter Soulsby]

Does my hon. Friend accept that one of the problems with the scrutiny function in many local authorities is that, frankly, it has not been separately resourced? I am not suggesting that it is easy for local authorities to find resources for anything at the moment, let alone their internal functions. Does he agree that if scrutiny is to be meaningful in local authorities, as it is meaningful in the House, it needs some degree of separate and independent support, so that it is both valued and well informed?

[Chris Williamson]

My hon. Friend makes a pertinent point, with which I agree entirely. In many local authorities, such scrutiny has been seen as something of a poor relation, so he is right that it is essential that it is adequately resourced. In a context of squeezed budgets, however, that can be difficult, but it is a valid point nevertheless and something that local authorities must take on board.

The hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) referred to single-tier authorities. Support for the notion of single-tier authorities is growing, and I am sure that he will be somewhat disappointed by the Minister’s recent decision to reject the application of Exeter and Norwich to become unitary authorities. Given his experience in local government, the hon. Gentleman probably understands better than most the benefits that flow from such an authority. His comments on extremists were well made. It is up to the main political parties to ensure, when a mayoral election takes place, that we reach out and get our message out to the general public and persuade them to support the mainstream and progressive values that we represent, certainly on this side of the Chamber. If we can get our message out effectively, we can overcome the threat posed by extremists. That threat is posed only where turnouts are low, so it is vital that we engage with people in the political process to ensure a reasonably good turnout. If we can improve turnouts, the extremists will fall by the wayside.

In my view it is abundantly clear that since the general election the Government’s policy on elected mayors has turned into something of a Brian Rix farce. Earlier this month, the Minister was caught, metaphorically, with his trousers down when he told the media that current council leaders would be transmogrified into executive mayors by order of the Secretary of State. He said that that would be followed by a “confirmatory referendum”. Just a fortnight ago, he told the Yorkshire Evening Post that the referendum question would be, “We’ve set up these things, do you want to stick with them?”

Cue the knee-jerk intervention by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government. Following the inevitable backlash to this oxymoronic top-down approach to localism, the Secretary of State told the House of Commons last week that he had ruled out the possibility of imposing mayors. In fact, he said that it was “out of the question”. True to form, however, he went even further later the same day and indulged his penchant for overstatement by saying that he

“had in the top left-hand drawer of my office a pearl-handled revolver with which to shoot the first person to suggest a restructuring of local government. The last time I checked, the revolver was fully loaded and waiting for such a person.”—[Official Report, 21 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 1155.]

Despite the Secretary of State’s menacing warning, the Minister seems to be alive and well, and it looks as if he has had a lucky escape.

To be serious for a moment, this past fortnight clearly illustrates that the Government’s policy on elected mayors is in complete disarray. We have the Secretary of State threatening to shoot anyone who proposes any form of local government reorganisation, while the Tory leader of Birmingham city council has said:

“If anything it’s a distraction to the real issues of local government.”

Then, we have the Prime Minister, who has pledged to hold mayoral referendums in 12 English cities. Furthermore, before his outburst last week, the Secretary of State himself was setting out plans for local government reorganisation. On 17 August, he told the Financial Times that he was planning to introduce executive mayors in the country’s 12 biggest cities by 2012. In a statement to the House, he said:

“We will put local councils in the driving seat to join up public services… We want elected mayors to trail-blaze such initiatives, not least since elected mayors in our cities will be embraced by the public”.—[Official Report, 11 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 3WS.]

The reality is somewhat different from the Secretary of State’s hyperbole, however. As things stand, there does not seem to be a huge appetite for executive mayors. In fact, since 2001—the hon. Member for Carlisle set out the history—24 out of 37 referendums have rejected the idea. Stoke was one of the 13 places to vote in favour of an elected mayoral system, but even there residents subsequently voted to scrap it. Will the Minister therefore clarify precisely what the Government’s latest policy position is?

[John Stevenson]

I am curious. I take the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I commented on the fact that only one third of referendums for elected mayors had produced a yes result, but I would be interested to know the Labour party’s view going forward with the idea of elected mayors. Labour Members were clearly up for elected mayors back in 2000, when the Blair Government introduced the idea. As I mentioned, they thought that it would be a great success. However, I am interested in the Labour party’s view now.

[Chris Williamson]

The hon. Gentleman is right that there was a groundswell of support for elected mayors in the previous Labour Government. We introduced legislation to enable elected mayors to be introduced, and we subsequently strengthened it in 2007. As we have heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South, a strong body of opinion in the Labour party supports elected mayors. However, it should be down to local people to decide, and we should not necessarily impose anything. At the very least, the elected members in an area should come to a view on elected mayors. Going forward, I think that that would remain our position, although we are now in opposition and we are looking at our policies. We will no doubt give this issue greater scrutiny as time goes by, but as things stand, it would be down to local people to decide what type of governance they wanted for their local authority, and I hope that that would remain the position.

Will the Minister clarify precisely what the Government’s policy position is? Will he implement the Conservative party’s manifesto pledge, which said:

“we will give the citizens in each of England’s twelve largest cities the chance of having an elected mayor.”

If the answer is yes, will he explain why the Secretary of State ruled out any local government reorganisation when he addressed the House last week? Will he give a guarantee that mayors will not be imposed in the country’s 12 largest cities without a referendum? Finally, will he concede that, in the current climate, elected mayors would be placed in an impossible position because of the unprecedented cuts in local government funding that he has signed up to? Those cuts will destroy vital public services, increase unemployment and undermine economic growth.

--- Later in debate ---

[Robert Neill]

I cannot quite beat the hon. Gentleman. That would be difficult to do.

No hon. Member actually declared an interest in the sense of saying whether they had been a mayor. I should say at once that I have not been a mayor, although I have been the leader of an authority. The nearest I got was being a mayor’s escort once, and I hope that my wife did not find me too inadequate in that role. That, of course, was under a ceremonial mayoral system.

Although we can smile at the differences, some important issues arise here. Across the country, ceremonial mayors do a valuable job and are often entirely independent, non-partisan representatives of their community. They can be forces for cohesion and fine ambassadors for, and representatives of, their communities. Whatever changes are made, one does not want to lose that element of the equation. Equally, it is perfectly fair to say that there has been considerable debate, and that there is a strong case for considering the mayor as an authority’s directly elected political head and chief executive, as is the case elsewhere in the world. My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle is therefore right to say that the issue can have a huge impact on local democratic life.

My hon. Friend raised a number of interesting points and asked a number of questions. I should make it clear that there has, of course, been some debate and consideration, and various alternatives have flown around in the air. Some are picked up and some are not, at the end of the day. The final decision on the detailed implementation of our commitment on mayors is yet to be taken, and we will announce that decision to the House in due course. However, the commitment, in principle, to the concept of directly elected mayors in England’s 12 largest cities is in the coalition agreement. As has been observed many times, we have said that we will create directly elected mayors in the 12 largest English cities, subject to confirmatory referendums and full scrutiny by elected councillors. I will address those two issues as I go along.

[Chris Williamson]

Will the Minister clarify what he means by confirmatory referendums? As he will be aware, they have been the subject of some debate in the media. Will he confirm that there would be a referendum before any mayoral system was imposed on any local authority area or city, and that proposals will not go forward unless a majority of people voted in favour?

[Robert Neill]

If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me, I will address the issue of the timing of referendums. However, I want to put it in the context of the rest of the policy.

Having set out the policy position, let me say that our commitment recognises the positive contribution that, international experience suggests, elected mayors can make, in terms of strong local leadership and instigating real change—something that my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle and others have observed. There are many examples of successful elected mayors, some of whom are in this country. I have had the pleasure of working with Mayors of London of both political persuasions. Other examples come from our other authorities. Clearly, there are also examples abroad. One need only look to London’s best comparator city, New York, or observe the real resilience that directly elected mayors bring to the great cities of many of our continental friends and partners in France, Germany, Italy, Spain and so on, where that governance model is regarded as the norm.

That experience supports the case for mayors in our largest cities, which is founded on mayors having greater potential to achieve successful economic, social and environmental outcomes in their cities than do other forms of government. I think that that is the result of the sharper accountability, greater legitimacy and stronger leadership that direct elections bring. Mayors can both be entrusted with greater powers and be expected to exercise them more effectively than perhaps councils generally are. In our largest cities, creating mayors and equipping them with the powers that they need will enable them to seize opportunities so that those cities can fulfil their potential as drivers of genuine economic growth.

We believe that elected mayors are an effective model—a model that can result in greater prosperity and improved social outcomes for our great cities, and a model that can restore the prestige of our cities, bettering the life of those who live and work in them. However, the decision on whether to have a mayor must ultimately rest with local people. That is why our commitment is to create mayors subject to confirmatory referendums. The timing of the referendums is important, as my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State recognised when he said in the House last week, in response to a suggestion that we would impose mayors,

“of course we will not—that is completely out of the question. The proposals will be subject to referendums.”

I can do no more than refer hon. Members who have asked about the timing to what my right hon. Friend said last week. He put it very simply:

“Once we know the views of the people in those 12 cities, we will move on to the election of a mayor if people vote for that.”

I should have thought that that was pretty crystal clear.

[Chris Williamson]

I do not want to labour the point unnecessarily, but I would appreciate some clarification. There is speculation that the leaders of the councils in the 12 biggest cities in England will be, as I said in my speech, transmogrified into directly elected mayors. I should appreciate it if the Minister would clarify that that will not happen, and they will not be transferred in that way or given the title of elected mayor until such time as a referendum has taken place.

[Robert Neill]

The hon. Gentleman knows as well as anyone that there has been a great deal of speculation about all aspects of elected mayors and the broader decentralisation agenda. I simply repeat what the Secretary of State said, which could not have been clearer:

“Once we know the views of the people in those 12 cities, we will move on to the election of a mayor if people vote for that.” —[Official Report, 21 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 1117.]

Reference has been made to the 12 cities. Our commitment is to have mayors in the 12 largest cities, and there are different arguments about where they are. Some points have been well made in the debate about the type of city that has a sharp focus and a sense of identity. Equally there will be questions about whether cities have the size or position to take on the range of powers that may be available.

I shall not go into the argument about unitaries as opposed to two-tier authorities at this stage. It is another legitimate debate, and I do not hold a dogmatic view on it. I have experienced good authorities of both kinds. I remind the hon. Member for Derby North (Chris Williamson) that what the Conservative party has always said on the subject—and what the Secretary of State was referring to in a very catchy reference he made to his attitude to local government reorganisation—relates to the situation under the previous Government, when unitary authorities were imposed on some areas by force, without the consent of the people in those authorities. There is a difference between unitary reorganisation and the present issue, which is about giving people in existing, well-established city authorities the choice on whether to have a directly elected mayor.

I draw the attention of the House to the Green Paper, “Control Shift”, that we published in opposition, setting out 12 potential cities that might have mayors. The Green Paper is referred to again in the coalition agreement. Those 12 cities are Birmingham, Bradford, Bristol, Coventry, Leeds, Leicester, Liverpool, Manchester, Newcastle upon Tyne, Nottingham, Sheffield and Wakefield. We did that on the basis that those cities are of a particular size, which we have calculated. We did not include the city of Sunderland, which is large, but which had a vote on a mayor in 2001. The people there took a view and rejected the proposal. So there is a logic to what we have proposed, and our thinking is that we would give people the choice in those 12 cities. We shall set that out in detail in the localism Bill, which was announced in the Queen’s Speech.

My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle referred to the possibility of extending the plan to other cities, but they can already have elected mayors if they wish. Under existing legislation, councils may choose to hold a referendum on whether to adopt the directly elected mayoral model, or they may resolve to adopt the mayoral model. We do not propose to remove that option. We also intend to keep the current arrangements whereby local people can trigger a binding referendum on whether to have an elected mayor for their area by submitting a petition to the council with the signatures of at least 5% of the area’s electors. I understand that there is such a petition under way in my hon. Friend’s constituency.