Ukraine

Chris Stephens Excerpts

Thursday 11th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Wallace]

My right hon. Friend’s characterisation of the counter-offensives is correct. I do not think it is a case of “One last thrust and everything will be over by Christmas.” I think this is a matter of Ukraine quite rightly finding and exploiting, as any good general would, weaknesses and opportunities. We should always manage our expectations that it will all be over by Christmas. When we have a Russian army that does not mind sacrificing hundreds of thousands of its own people, we are not up against rational leadership that recognises, as anyone else would do, that the game is up already. Having lost 10,000 armoured vehicles, and with over 250,000 of its own soldiers dead or wounded, most people would have recognised that the game is up. That is one of the big challenges.

There are other weapons systems that Ukraine has asked for, and the ATACMS is a well-documented capability. We are pretty confident that Storm Shadow will plug some of that gap and definitely deliver the deeper range that HIMARS used to achieve when it was at 80 km. The Russians, after suffering significant losses to HIMARS, obviously worked out and moved beyond range ring, so we think Storm Shadow will absolutely help the Ukrainians make that difference.

The US President today is President Biden. I have a good relationship with him, as do the Government. They have stood firm, with $87 billion of donations. They have put their money where their mouth is. A huge amount of effort has gone into their support. I lived in America for a few years, or my parents did, and I know that the decent and good people of America would recognise that their rights are just as important as those of the people of Ukraine. Their constitution upholds rights. I think that is what will unite them, and I am confident that whoever comes next as President will continue to support the battle to uphold human rights.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

I thank the Secretary of State for this detailed statement and advance sight of it. I assure him that the SNP condemns, and will continue to condemn, Putin’s unprovoked invasion of a peaceful, democratic neighbour in the strongest possible terms.

I join the Labour party in asking once again for the UK Government to formally proscribe the Wagner Group as a terrorist organisation. Could the Secretary of State tell his colleagues in other Departments that we would like to see a plan to support Ukrainian refugees to seek damages against the Wagner Group in the UK courts? He mentioned Iran. I would add that the Government should be considering proscribing as a terrorist organisation the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.

President Zelensky has said that Ukraine is constrained by delays in the delivery of armoured vehicles. What action plan do the Government have, along with their allies, to ensure that those armoured vehicles are delivered to assist in those efforts? Finally, could the Secretary of State comment on reports that India’s imports of Russian oil rose tenfold in 2022? What do the Government plan to do alongside allies to ensure that oil products originating from Russia do not reap record profits?

[Mr Wallace]

I am grateful for the SNP’s support on this. I think we all recognise what Ukraine is fighting for, and it appeals to our decency and the fact that we must all stand up for it. The hon. Gentleman’s suggestion of a financial penalty or suing the Wagner Group in the courts is an interesting one. It reminds me, from my previous role as Security Minister, that proscription is an important tool, but it rarely unlocks any more than a brand or labelling of something. What I suspect will have a bigger impact on Wagner will be suing in the courts, given that mercenaries do not hang around if they do not get paid. Seeking damages through our amazing courts system, whether in Scotland or London, which is world-renowned for being fair and respected, has a long tentacle. I have listened to his suggestion. While I cannot advise victims of the Wagner Group, I think that hitting Wagner in the wallet will probably be a stronger method, even though I hear that proscription is also wanted.

I also listened to the call to proscribe the IRGC. Iran is absolutely supplying Russia with drones. It cannot hide it; it cannot pretend: it is supplying Russia with drones. Of course, in return, Russia is funding the Iranians and the IRGC to make those drones—it is funding that industry. That poses a wider threat to the region, whether to Yemen, Saudi Arabia, the Houthis or Iraq, where we see Iranian drones being used already. No good shall come of it, shall we say?

As far as delays go, one part of the assistance we provide is that we have people in Poland, Slovakia and Romania helping to co-ordinate delivery and helping the logistics of it. We stand by to help any other nation do that, and at our next meeting of colleagues—either NATO Defence Ministers or others—I will be very happy to find out who is having difficulty. We stand by, ready to help.

Some of the great work we have done in Ukraine that does not get written about is in things like logistics: flying aircraft to pick up people’s donations and bring them back to the hubs. All of those people—the members of the RAF who fly those aeroplanes—are heroes to me. We do it often and, in a sense, not secretly; it is just that the media do not seem to want to write about it, but I know about it, and I think it is really good work. We will keep the momentum—we will keep the supplies coming in—but I think we should all recognise that, as any Members who have visited the Ukrainian training will know, there is a lot of hardship still to come.