Amendment of the Law

Debate between Chris Heaton-Harris and Neil Carmichael

Wednesday 21st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak about the Budget on Budget day itself, and, indeed, to have quite some time in which to speak. The last time I tried to speak in a Budget debate, I was curtailed at three minutes and 52 seconds, just as I was building up a full head of steam. I hope to enjoy the nine minutes and 42 seconds remaining to me today.

I welcome the Budget for many reasons, but, in common with any Back Bencher trying to represent their constituency, I also have some questions and there are some areas on which I want to probe and seek commitments from the Government for future Budgets.

I listened carefully to the contributions on their constituencies of the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) and the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), who serves with me on the Public Accounts Committee. For the first eight minutes of the right hon. Gentleman’s speech, I did not disagree with a single word he said. It was a fantastic speech. I know his constituency very well. A friend of mine has set up a boxing club on White Hart lane, and he takes in young people from the Broadwater Farm estate. The right hon. Gentleman has led his community in a highly commendable way since last year’s riots.

Let me set out what I think we all want, and what I certainly want as a former small business man. Before going into the European Parliament, I ran my own business wholesaling fruit and veg in New Covent Garden market, working nights for 11 years. My second language at the time was Cockney, and the sort of people I used to work with were keen on trying not to pay any tax. These were cash businesses and people tried to keep it that way. They wanted to generate wealth and then to choose how they spent it. There is a delicate balance to be struck in government between encouraging as many people as possible to create wealth and ensuring the bit that is taken in tax is spent well, so that people feel they are getting value for their money. I would like to think that everyone in this House welcomed elements of this Budget, and certainly those dealing with small businesses.

I know that the threshold is set at only £77,000 of cash passing through someone’s small business, but some of the paperwork associated with their return to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs goes overboard—it is way too much. These people are normally one-man bands, although perhaps they have a partner, so reducing and simplifying their paperwork is fantastic for them. We are giving people who want to set up a chance to know that they are not going to be hammered by the taxman, because they will understand the form that they are filling in and will not be fearful of getting it terribly wrong.

The Budget contains lots of other good things. I am sure that the whole House welcomes the £36 billion that is being saved as a result of interest that we are not paying because of the low interest rates engendered by this Government’s economic policy. Some Opposition Front Benchers have been suggesting ways of dismantling this fantastic set-up that enables us to borrow at low interest rates, but, realistically, everyone has to welcome the fact that we are paying less for our debt at the moment.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I am thoroughly enjoying my hon. Friend’s speech and he is hitting on the important issue of interest rates. Does he agree that smaller businesses, too, are going to benefit enormously from low interest rates, both now and in the future, because they mean long-term investment for those businesses?

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and of course I agree with what he says. The more we can spread lower interest rates, the better it is. As hon. Members from across the House will know, it has been difficult getting the banks to lend to all sorts of small businesses in the past two years. Any measure we take that strengthens lending to small businesses is a thoroughly good thing, because these businesses are the acorns from which big businesses grow. The Labour Government had this fantastic policy of how to manufacture small businesses: they took a big business, taxed it and added loads of regulation, and a few months or years later they had a small business. We are doing exactly the opposite.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

It is a great honour to speak in this debate because it is an important one, given that the Budget is of decisive importance in terms of our economic future. It is also a great honour to follow the hon. Member for Belfast East (Naomi Long).

There are several reasons why this Budget is a good Budget, the first of which is that it reaffirms the need to tackle the deficit, and demonstrates that the efforts to do so have been successful. That is critical to this country’s interests, because it is about the price of money—interest—and we must secure a long-term, sustainable rate of interest for small businesses, mortgage payers and so on.

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

My hon. Friend will be interested to hear the views of John Cridland of the CBI, who said in the reaction to the Budget that

“the best news for businesses is that he”—

the Chancellor—

“stuck to his guns and delivered a fiscally neutral programme…by putting more money in the pockets of ordinary people, the Chancellor has provided a much-needed confidence boost.”

[Neil Carmichael]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention and helpful quotation, because it underlines my point, which all hon. Members should have firmly in their minds, because it is the key issue.

Sensible debt management goes on to secure lending at a reasonable price. We have seen how that has worked in Italy to some extent and it certainly works here. It is the real test of good government, and I am delighted that the Chancellor is pursuing it so determinedly.

The second thing I am pleased to welcome is the actions on tax avoidance. It is important that we demonstrate that we will not stand for people deliberately avoiding tax using inappropriate routes. That the new stamp duty mechanism and the mechanism to prevent tax avoidance in stamp duty are scheduled to recoup some £300 million is absolutely excellent news. That will lead to a total of £600 million, which is well worth having. We are therefore sending the right signal and getting some useful money. It is a good thing that the Chancellor has underlined that. There is annoyance in my constituency at tax avoidance, and I am pleased to be able to say that we are taking robust action. The general anti-abuse rule will be extraordinarily useful and a final threat to anybody who goes down that route in future.

Thirdly, I welcome the lifting of personal allowances, which the Liberal Democrats were right to promote. I am not going to argue about who promoted it first, but it is a useful policy for us to have and we should celebrate it.

The final thing I want to celebrate from the headline announcements is the action taken on child benefits. I received a lot of pressure in my constituency about them, right up until the last moment. One person came to visit me in Stroud tourist office while I was doing a stint to promote tourism week. In fact, he was one of many to talk about child benefit instead of buying tickets for various excellent shows and so forth. The fact remains that we have taken action, and I celebrate that fact. The Government have done a good thing.

In my constituency, I am having a festival for manufacturing and engineering next month. I am doing so to celebrate the successes in Stroud, and there are two key messages I want to get across. First, we need to invest in our small and medium-sized sectors, particularly in manufacturing and engineering, and the Chancellor has signalled that that is the direction of travel for the Budget and the Government. Secondly, I want to signal the importance of young people getting involved in manufacturing and engineering, because they need to think about manufacturing and engineering as a career. Again, he has signalled that that is a key part of the Government’s economic strategy. He has signalled many things, but those are certainly the two that matter most to my constituency.

[Chris Heaton-Harris]

I appreciate my hon. Friend for giving way a second time. I rise to help him with yet another quote, this time from Paul Everitt of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, who says that these Budget measures

“will trigger substantial extra business investment in the years ahead.”

That is obviously a solidly good thing.

[Neil Carmichael]

That is another first-class quote from my hon. Friend. He and I agree about many things, and certainly about this. I thank him very much for underlining my point again.

I want to canter through various critical measures announced in the Budget. One concerns infrastructure. It is absolutely right that we invest in infrastructure. The national infrastructure plan is a first-class document that signals the Government’s commitment to taking these measures. The recent announcement, confirmed in the Budget, about the possibility of private firms taking over roads is absolutely right. I would say, however, that although the Government are rightly reviewing the private finance initiative—it is far too cumbersome, has left us with a lot of debt and has created difficulties with procurement and so forth—we have to enable the private sector to invest more easily in infrastructure. Whatever the outcome of the review—I hope it is a robust review in terms of changing the PFI—we must still encourage the private and public sectors to work together to leverage in the money that we desperately need to improve our infrastructure.

On technology, it is great news that we will have a centre for aviation. I hope that it is in Stroud—it would be very convenient for Airbus just down the road—but wherever it is, it is important that we give that platform for development and technology. Technology matters, so I will throw in a comment about broadband, because it, too, is part of this story of ensuring that we are technologically advanced. I visited a firm called Jatech in my constituency last week. It is producing some excellent products for data management, and lots of different industries and firms are accessing that information. That means good technology in the computer and broadband industry. We need to celebrate those things too.

We had a great debate last week in Westminster Hall on UK Trade & Investment. We need to ensure that this organisation continues to do a lot of good work, so I am pleased that the Government are talking sensibly and robustly about encouraging exports and helping firms find office space and so forth. These measures in the Budget draw our attention to the need to export, because we certainly need to do that. At the end of the day, it is no good looking at Germany and saying, “Well, they’re doing better than us,” and putting our heads in the sand. We have to do as well as Germany and then better still. That is this country’s main mission on economics and growth. Let us ensure that we can promote that.

Energy is a critical issue. Again, the Government are right to talk robustly about investment in energy. The Chancellor is absolutely right to talk about supporting the oil and gas industry. That is great news for firms in my constituency supplying those sectors, notably in Brazil. For example, a firm in Eastington, Arc, is doing extraordinarily well. However, we need to provide a market opportunity for new forms of energy and even new forms of storing electricity. We need to think about that. If we can create market conditions where firms feel comfortable about investing in new technology that has not yet properly taken off, but which can add value to our energy infrastructure and provide that platform, so much the better.

Lord Heseltine will be talking about bringing the private sector and Government together—absolutely, and it is great that he is looking at implementing an industrial strategy, as it were, and how that could best be done. There are some good examples of what can be done in countries such as Germany—I mention Germany again, but it is worth looking at other countries, especially when they are doing so well. I remind the House of Germany’s market penetration in countries where we might not normally expect it, such as China and India, and so forth. We have to understand how the Germans do that and learn a few lessons from them. That is something that the Treasury, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and other agencies of Government would do well to consider.

The Chancellor quite properly referred to education and training, which we really have to focus on. I am absolutely delighted that, in the Budget and elsewhere, the Government have made a lot of the importance of skills training and education. The Chancellor said that we could put all the fiscal measures in place, but we really need the people to make it work—he did not use those words exactly, but that is the point he was trying to get at. We therefore have to do it. We have to ensure that the resource we have in this country—our people, all of them—have access to decent education, which will enable them to adapt and develop in their careers. It is no longer the case that people just turn up, do a job and then retire; this is about a process of development.

I want to talk a bit about banking. It is essential that we manage to get more money into the right places. One of the things about monetarism in the ’70s and ’80s is that it was quite a blunt instrument, as is quantitative easing, so we have to ensure that we get money into the right places. The issue of banking constantly recurs. The Government have mentioned a large number of measures that they intend to take, not least the national loan guarantee scheme. That is absolutely brilliant and good news, and I look forward to that. However, we need more banks, with a greater variety of offerings and more specialisms in appropriate sectors, and more competition in the banking sector. We also need to be alert to new ways of financing firms and encourage them to think about new ways of doing that. It is not just about the banks, although they need to improve their lending; it is also about firms themselves and the cultural change we need to bring about to encourage small and medium-sized businesses to think out of the box when it comes to borrowing money.

I finish with a comment about the business finance partnership, which is a great scheme. Indeed, the Chancellor mentioned it today, with £100 million in the Budget for non-traditional lending, which is exactly the sort of thing I am thinking about. It is also important that we continue to recognise, understand and promote the development of supply chains, because they are critical in the SME sector—they really do matter. Interpreting how supply chains will develop, recognising where the blockages are and understanding them as part of the export issue to which I referred will enable growth to take place, because the component parts of the chain will understand that process and be ready to support and buy from each other.

This is a good Budget, but there is a lot still to do.

European Union Bill

Debate between Chris Heaton-Harris and Neil Carmichael

Tuesday 8th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)]

I understand where my hon. Friend is coming from, and equally, I understand the new clause. The reality is that after any Council meeting, 26 other countries run to their national press to say exactly what the British negotiating position was and what we might have given away. Within about 24 hours, anybody out there can see most of the negotiations that have taken place. I am sure the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) will understand this point. If we are going for transparency—if the detail of the negotiations is going to be out there anyway—surely it would be easier for the British Government to come back, lay their cards on the table and say how they played their hand.

[Neil Carmichael]

The role of Ministers in interpreting each other’s decisions and talking to the press later is different from formally disclosing key positions. I do not spend a huge amount of time reading the newspapers, certainly not those produced by Mr Murdoch. I would much prefer the House to test Ministers on the outcomes and make sure that the integrity of the decisions was protected and that the capacity of our Ministers to act independently in the interests of this nation state was upheld. That is why the clause is not helpful.

I understand the motives, as I said at the beginning of my remarks. I can see why people want to have more information about the European Parliament and more transparency in relation to the Commission. It is not a clear structure at the best of times. I can see why more transparency should be required of the Council of Ministers, but the clause is not the right mechanism. The critical issue, as we discussed last time, is to make sure that this House can test Ministers thoroughly and properly at each and every opportunity.