Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 12th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I cannot believe what I have just heard from the hon. Gentleman. He talks about putting party politics before passengers in the week when the Leader of the Opposition said that he would join a picket line to perpetuate the unnecessary strikes on Southern rail that are causing so much damage to passengers. I will not take the hon. Gentleman seriously until I hear him condemning those strikes and telling the workers to go back to work.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

3. What recent discussions he has had with Ministers of the Welsh Government on cross-border transport.

Rail Infrastructure (Train Operating Companies)

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 6th December 2016 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing)]

The prize for patience and perseverance goes to Ian Lucas.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Transport for London and Merseyrail are successful vertically integrated train companies. Why, if we want more integration, do we not apply their successful model, which attracts public and private investment, to the rest of our railway network?

[Chris Grayling]

I hate to disabuse the hon. Gentleman, but Merseyrail is not a vertically integrated train operator. Indeed, I have discussed with Merseyrail whether it wants to take control of its tracks, and so far it has been indicated to me, at least by the Mayor of Liverpool, that he does not particularly want to. I would be happy if Merseyrail took control of its tracks. It has long had the opportunity to become an integrated train operator, but right now, it is not.

HS2 Update

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 15th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I hear my hon. Friend’s representation. I am not in a position to give him such a guarantee today, but Carlisle will benefit from faster services, and specifically from the HS2 rolling stock that will come up the west coast main line to Carlisle, which will improve connectivity for his area from north to south. I am looking forward to talking to him about the A69 connectivity from east to west.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

If HS2 is indeed to benefit the whole of the UK, it is important that areas such as north Wales, with its important routes to Ireland, receive investment and connectivity. May I therefore press the Secretary of State on the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) about Crewe? Will the Secretary of State ensure that connectivity to north Wales, and beyond it to Ireland, is an essential part of any plans relating to Crewe station?

[Chris Grayling]

I am well aware of the issues about the north Wales line and its importance to the economy of north Wales. I recently discussed that with the Secretary of State for Wales and, indeed, the Welsh Assembly Government. This is very much on my to-do list as we look to the future.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 17th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the need to provide balance across the country in investment in infrastructure. If we look back at the Labour Government years, we will see that projects sat on the shelf. When in opposition, I would go around the country and spend time as shadow Transport Secretary talking about the need for projects, but when I go around the country now, I see that they are being built. I was in Newcastle last week, where the A1 is being improved, and the link road between the M6 and the M56 is being built in Cheshire. There is real improvement and change happening around the country in a way that simply did not happen when the Labour party was in power.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

May we have an urgent debate in Government time on personal independence payments and the withdrawal of Motability cars from vulnerable disabled people, which is preventing them from carrying out jobs they have secured? Does it make any sense to put disabled people out of work in that way?

[Chris Grayling]

There will be debates on the Budget and on any changes that we bring forward to the welfare system. I simply remind the hon. Gentleman that it is important for the Government to ensure that we provide support where and when it is needed, but that we also seek to get the best value for taxpayers’ money in delivering that support.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 3rd March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Very briefly, and on this question, I call Ian Lucas.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

6. Mr Speaker, you will be aware that Coleg Cambria in my constituency has students resident in England who are directly affected by issues you have certified under the EVEL procedure as relating only to England. Will the Leader of the House urgently consider this issue, which is directly affecting the livelihoods of people in my constituency? He is limiting my voice on these matters.

[Chris Grayling]

I have to admire the hon. Gentleman for his persistence in this matter, but as I have explained to him time and again, he has no say over matters such as health and education in his own constituency. It is not obviously logical that we should make special arrangements for him to have that say across the border in constituencies represented by other Members of this House.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 25th February 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I congratulate all in my hon. Friend’s constituency who have succeeded in bringing forward these exciting new plans. It has always been my view that faith-based education has an important place in our society. While it is important that a faith-based school is not a school of one faith, my experience is that the ethos a faith-based school brings delivers a high quality of education, and what is happening locally is very exciting. I am sure he will take advantage of the opportunity to express to the Secretary of State, when she is here shortly for questions, just how important a part of this Government’s policy that work is.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The Government have amended substantially their own Enterprise Bill to include provisions on Sunday trading. Can the Leader of the House explain how Back Benchers who are concerned about the English votes for English laws status of the Government amendments can make representations within the terms of the Standing Orders concerning the effect of new proposals made by the Government?

[Chris Grayling]

These proposals will, of course, be the subject of debate in Committee and, if Members choose, on Report on the Floor of the House, but the advice that the hon. Gentleman seeks is best obtained from the Clerks.

Standing Orders (Public Business)

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 22nd October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I will give way twice more and then I will sit down.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Leader of the House for the conversations we have had on this matter. Why is he quite prepared to exclude Members from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland from the English Grand Committee but he will not exclude English Members from the Welsh, Northern Irish and Scots Grand Committees?

[Chris Grayling]

I am not excluding the hon. Gentleman from the English Grand Committee. He will be able to speak in that Committee and to vote on Bills. I am simply leaving the English with a requirement to give their consent before something can happen. Where we legislate in this House for a variety of issues affecting Wales, we require a legislative consent motion from the Welsh Assembly Government. That is no different from this House seeking a legislative consent motion from the English in order to proceed.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 17th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is going to be a very real issue in the weeks and months ahead. I am sure I am not alone in thinking that prices go up very quickly and come down very slowly. Given the big falls in the oil price, it is surprising that falls have not occurred more rapidly. It does not seem to me that there is an obvious case now for pushing prices up heavily again. This profoundly affects consumers, especially the elderly, and I am not convinced that the energy companies respond to the very real needs of the elderly in their pricing, and that should change.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

On measures that affect only specific jurisdictions, will the Leader of the House give to MPs from Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland the same rights he plans to give to MPs from England?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman is very assiduous in making this point. I remind him that he can vote on education in my constituency but not his own. That is an imbalance in the devolution settlement. We are not planning to take away from him the right to vote in any Division he currently takes part in. We are simply saying that if a Government covering the United Kingdom seek to impose on England—and indeed on England and Wales, because this is not simply about England—something that MPs in that part of the country oppose, they should have a comparable say in whether it happens. That is all we are suggesting.

English Votes for English Laws

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

As ever, the right hon. Gentleman is ingenious in his arguments, but I simply say that we are, and remain, a United Kingdom Parliament. Matters related to devolution in Scotland are debated and voted on by the whole House of Commons. When we debate matters related to additional responsibilities for Members representing English constituencies—as we are doing today—those measures are debated by Members from the entire United Kingdom. That is right and proper, and it is the way that a United Kingdom Parliament should operate.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

If the right hon. Gentleman believes in a United Kingdom Parliament, will he extend to Members from Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland the same rights in this Parliament that he is according to MPs from England?

[Chris Grayling]

Over the past 20 years, we in this House have done precisely that with the creation of the Welsh Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Irish Assembly. The issue that we are seeking to address is the fact that, as an MP representing a Welsh constituency just over the border in north Wales, the hon. Gentleman cannot vote on education matters related to his own constituency. He can vote, however, on matters that relate to Chester just a few miles up the road. We are seeking to address that oddity.

Business of the House

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 14th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

They may have listened carefully and been struck by the ingenuity of the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare), but I hope that questions will not follow in quite the same vein, because we are principally concerned with the business of the House for this week and possibly slightly beyond; we are not taking a panoramic view.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Last Thursday, the Leader of the House told the House that he would publish the amended Standing Orders on Monday. I collected them at a quarter to 1 today, which was when the Vote Office received them. Will he do the House the courtesy of his office and apologise for not filing the amended Standing Orders yesterday, as he told the House from the Dispatch Box he would? Does he really treat us with such contempt?

[Chris Grayling]

If the hon. Gentleman thinks that publishing something at the start of Tuesday, rather than the end of Monday, is treating the House with great contempt, he and I have different interpretations of the word “contempt”.

English Votes on English Laws

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Tuesday 7th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

As I said, there will be an opportunity to table and vote on more than one amendment. I am happy to look at whether we can provide a little more time for the debate. This change is intended to fulfil our manifesto commitment, but if there is a desire among Members to have a little more time, I am happy to look at how best we can provide it.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Chris Grayling]

I will make a little more progress, because a lot of people are waiting to speak.

I am reticent about using legislation, because this House currently determines its own rules and procedures, rather than the courts. The boundaries between the courts and Parliament are long established and well respected. There is a principle of mutual respect, which means that the courts will not generally challenge the means by which legislation is passed or decisions taken in Parliament. There is a strong feeling in the House that using legislation to govern our legislative process would risk opening it up to legal challenge and that ultimate authority may pass from you, Mr Speaker, to the courts. We therefore have to be immensely careful.

Parts of the processes of the House have been legislated on, but I think that it would be better to consider the issue of legislation in 12 months’ time as part of the review, when we have seen the detail of how this works and invited the Procedure Committee to look in detail at how to make it work as effectively as possible. It is important that we are careful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian C. Lucas]

Will the Leader of the House confirm that on England-only issues, as defined by the Speaker, the practical effect of the changes to Standing Orders will be to increase the Conservative majority from 12 to more than 100?

[Chris Grayling]

This is nothing to do with the majority in an individual Parliament; it is about doing what is right. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the Conservative party has a United Kingdom majority in this Parliament, so this is not about the numerical position in this Parliament, but about making sure that we can answer English constituents when they say, “You are providing additional powers to Wales and Scotland and considering devolving the right to set corporation tax to Northern Ireland, but what about us? Where do we fit in? Where is England in this new devolution settlement?” That is what we are seeking to sort out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman clearly did not read our manifesto and clearly did not pay attention to what took place before the election, because these proposals were published months ago and have been discussed extensively. They were also set out in fine detail in our manifesto. He is claiming that we should not be implementing our manifesto commitment. There may be other parties in this House that do not believe in fulfilling their manifesto commitments, but we do.

[Ian C. Lucas]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Chris Grayling]

No, I have given way to the hon. Gentleman already.

Before I finish, I want to make one point about double majority votes. The important thing to say—

English Votes on English Laws

Debate between Lord Grayling and Ian C. Lucas

Thursday 2nd July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The point that SNP Members seem to have failed to take on board is that no measure will be able to pass through this House without the consent of the whole House, and the whole House includes Members of Parliament from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. That is how it is today; that is how it will continue. It is absolutely right and proper that that should be the case. They will continue to vote in all the Divisions they vote in at the moment. They will speak in the debates and ask all their questions. This does not create a second tier of Members of Parliament. It actually addresses the existing West Lothian question, which creates a division in competence between different Members of Parliament.

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman is a Member of Parliament from England. I am a Member of Parliament from Wales. Can the right hon. Gentleman tell me one additional power I have in this House because I am from Wales?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman will of course as a result of these proposals continue to vote on all UK issues. He will also have the opportunity to take decisions about matters that affect Wales and affect England and Wales, such as policing and justice, which are devolved in Northern Ireland and Scotland. This should actually strengthen his role in this House because it will give him greater control over matters that affect the country he represents.