Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 30th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

It is very simple: we are a democracy; we vote; the result stands. If we have a general election and we are not successful—we Conservatives have experienced a few of them over the years—we sit on the Opposition Benches and do our best to oppose for the country; we do not sit there demanding another general election a month later. That is the way democracy works. The people have spoken; the Government will act.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

May I tell the Leader of the House that the contribution of my somewhat younger parliamentary colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn), is an illustration of how the “Dad’s Army” here is always willing to give whatever assistance is necessary when firm leadership is lacking on both sides, as it is at present? On a more serious note that arises from various exchanges about the referendum result since Monday, would it not be useful for us to have an early debate on the alienation and resentment that are felt in so many parts of the country—certainly in the black country boroughs—which led, to a large extent, to the slight majority for leaving the EU? In the past few months and perhaps longer, the House of Commons has not understood sufficiently that feeling of resentment and alienation.

[Mr Winnick]

Indeed. One more step towards the century.

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman is perhaps being a bit too pessimistic about his prospects. It does look as if there might be a Labour leadership contest shortly. Judging by the commitment coming from the octogenarians on the Labour Benches, one of them should perhaps put their hat into the ring.

On the impact of all the changes in recent years on the economy and on communities up and down the country, one of the Government’s achievements that I am proudest of is the huge fall—more than half a million—in the number of children growing up in workless households. That will transform the lives of those children, with their parents getting up in the morning and going to work with a sense of purpose and direction. I am really proud that my party has contributed to achieving that in government.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 9th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

This is a subject of increasing importance. The rise in suicides among young men in particular is deeply alarming. The Secretary of State for Health takes this issue very seriously indeed and he is working on upgrading the national suicide prevention strategy. As a Government, we will do everything we can, and we are already putting additional resources into mental health treatments in the health service to try to tackle this and other problems. We are working immensely hard to tackle this.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

In regard to parliamentary representation for women, it is worth remembering that in 1912 a future Labour Cabinet member, George Lansbury, resigned his London east end seat in protest against women being denied the right to vote and to be represented in the House of Commons. He subsequently fought a by-election, which unfortunately he did not win, although he came back to the House in due course. Does the Leader of the House agree that it would be useful to have a debate shortly on what is happening to women abroad? Yesterday, a 17-year-old woman in Pakistan was burnt to death by her family because they disagreed with her marriage, and it is said that 1,000 women a year in Pakistan are murdered in the same way. Despite all the progress we have made in this country, the suffering that goes on and the murder of women should be remembered, fought over and debated, and we should try in every way possible to end it.

[Chris Grayling]

It is a great pleasure to find something on which the hon. Gentleman and I entirely agree. The treatment of women in some societies around the world is absolutely atrocious, and we as a leading nation in the world should always seek to improve that situation. We should use what influence we have around the world to change other regimes in other countries and to create a world that is more enlightened and more supportive towards women and that treats them in the way they should be treated.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 19th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend makes his point with his customary effectiveness. I have no doubt that the BBC will be listening carefully to his comments and, if nothing else, the view he has put forward will ensure that it goes even further out of its way to try to make sure that it is impartial in the referendum campaign.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Can the Leader of the House explain the difference—perhaps we could have a statement—between the 1975 referendum, during which Ministers disagreed without bitterness, important arguments were made and personal attacks were not made, and the present campaign, in which Cabinet and other members of the Government and their supporters have such bitterness, strife and rancour between them over the question of remain or leave? It is not very civilised and totally unlike 1975.

[Chris Grayling]

Ironically, I wrote a short piece for City A.M. this morning about social reform, alongside my deputy from a different side of the argument. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are still best friends, unlike most people in the Labour party, who appear to be preparing to knife their leader in the back.

Strathclyde Review

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 17th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I do not imagine that we have heard the last of this debate, but when it comes to enacting our manifesto and the measures in the spending review, our legislative priority is to do things that will make a real difference to the country. That is what the country expected of us when it elected us in May.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Is the Leader of the House aware that people will recognise this as one big sulk, because of the decision taken by the House of Lords on tax credits? The Lords were right, and they were sustained in their decision by Members on the Opposition Benches, by public opinion and even by Members on the Government side. That is why this nonsense has come before us today.

[Chris Grayling]

The reason this matter has come before us today is that, by general acknowledgement, the conventions that have existed for a long time between the House of Lords and the House of Commons have somewhat broken down. It is time to sort that out and to put in place arrangements that give certainty and continuity for the future.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 10th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

No area can afford to do without GP services for any length of time, particularly in winter. My hon. Friend has made an important point that I suspect will be noticed by those in the health service—they tend to be when they are raised in the House—but the Secretary of State for Health will be here on the first day after the Christmas recess, so I suggest that my hon. Friend raises the matter then if things have not moved forward.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

If there was to be a debate on that deeply bigoted man Trump, would it not be useful to make two points: first, in this country we have legislation against inciting racial hatred, which is a very effective law that I certainly hope will remain; and secondly, and most importantly in many respects, we have effective gun control, which I do not think would do any harm in the United States?

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Tuesday 1st December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

The motion was tabled a few minutes ago; it is available in the Table Office now.

What I would say to my hon. Friend is that we are providing time to go beyond 7 o’clock tomorrow, to 10 o’clock. We have sought to provide what is the equivalent of two days of debate. A 10-and-a-half-hour debate tomorrow is effectively equivalent to the time we would have if we held the debate over a two-day period, so I hope he will sense that we have given an adequate amount of time for this debate.

My hon. Friend has concerns, but he should realise that this is a matter of concern to every single Member of the House, and that a decision such as this is never taken lightly by any Member of Parliament. If he has concerns and wants further information, he can talk to me and colleagues in the Foreign Office and the Ministry of Defence afterwards—we would be happy to discuss the issue further.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

There must be few, if any, Members who will not be agonising over how to vote, so it would be useful if everyone had a free vote. Does the Leader of the House recognise that unlike his Cabinet colleagues, he has a special responsibility to Members of this House? On such a crucial issue and however we vote on it, I imagine it must be difficult for people outside to understand why we are confining debate to one day, albeit with extended time. Why is it impossible for the House of Commons to provide at least two full days of debate? We could end up with a situation in which Members are desperate to speak, and a good number might not be able to express a view on behalf of themselves and their constituents. Those who are called in the final stages might be limited to three minutes. It is simply wrong to undertake debate in this way on such a crucial issue of war and peace.

[Chris Grayling]

I absolutely accept—the hon. Gentleman is right to say it—that this is a crucial issue of conscience for many Members. However, the timing of tomorrow’s debate is effectively the equivalent of the amount of time that would have been available if we had held a debate across Wednesday and Thursday on normal business days for this House. It provides one extended debate on a single day, which I think makes for a more coherent debate over that extended period. It will start earlier than normal and finish much later than normal. I hope that will give Members of all parties the opportunity to contribute.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 10th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

I am sure that my hon. Friends in the Ministry of Justice will have noted my hon. Friend’s comments. I refer him to what the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee said a moment ago about seeking subjects for debate in the coming days. If my hon. Friend feels strongly about these matters, there is an opportunity to bring them to the House’s attention through that route.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Following previous comments, would it not be appropriate to have a statement, preferably as soon as possible, on how the Government can possibly justify trying to reduce the number of Members of the elected House of Commons by at least 50 while increasing the number of Members of the House of Lords, which is totally unelected, to 825? Is that the Tory conception of modern democracy? Talk about back to the future!

[Chris Grayling]

I simply remind the hon. Gentleman that the coalition Government brought forward plans for House of Lords reform in the previous Parliament, but they could not proceed because the Labour party obstructed the programme motion. If he wants to know why the House of Lords was not reformed, he should look to his own party.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 9th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It is a bit of a contradiction in terms—if someone is a Traveller, why are they establishing a fixed site to live on? My view is that every citizen of this country should be subject to the same laws as everyone else. We should not make exceptions for any groups, and it is an oddity that should be dealt with—people who claim to be Travellers should not be given special permission to establish fixed sites to live on permanently.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

Millions of people will lose out as a result of the Budget, but, regarding other business next week, is the Leader of the House aware that despite all his denials, there will be a dishonest attempt to legalise foxhunting? A 90-minute debate is totally unacceptable and will be viewed with contempt by millions of people in the country who detest the very idea of foxhunting being brought back?

[Chris Grayling]

The hon. Gentleman will have the chance in that debate to make his point. I simply reiterate what I said earlier: this measure does not overturn the ban on hunting with dogs.

Business of the House

Debate between Chris Grayling and David Winnick

Thursday 18th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Chris Grayling]

Having had to divert off the M6 a couple of times recently myself because of the roadworks, I share my hon. Friend’s concern about the impact on the surrounding communities. That is not always avoidable, given the need for improvements. As the improvements take root and the road is reopened, there will probably be a positive impact on the communities that he represents. I will ensure that his comments are drawn to the attention of the Department for Transport, and he should use all the channels available to him to ensure that Ministers are aware of the need to speed things up as much as is humanly possible.

[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

While we are waiting for the briefing on the parliamentary building, is it not clear that previous reports have shown the crumbling state of the building and how costly it would be if the essential work to be undertaken were done with Members, staff and everyone else in place? I heard what the Leader of the House said about the Committee and the rest of it, but is it not important that a decision is reached, so that the necessary work can begin in 2020? The longer we delay it, the more costly it will be.

[Chris Grayling]

I very much agree with the hon. Gentleman. We need to get on with this, because there is no benefit in inappropriate delays. Of course, there is other work to be done on the parliamentary estate before that work can happen, but I am clear that we need to move ahead with it expeditiously.