China’s Policy on its Uighur Population

Chris Bryant Excerpts

Wednesday 11th March 2020 Westminster Hall

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

It always changes just before I start, Mr Sharma. I do not take it personally, of course.

I want to start off on a slightly different tack. In March 1936, the Conservative MP for Chelmsford was a man called Jack Macnamara. He travelled to Germany to celebrate the remilitarisation of the Rhineland. Perhaps we might think that unusual today, but many people at the time thought that Germany should be allowed to stand on its own two feet again, after the Versailles treaty.

What changed his mind about Germany was visiting Dachau. The Germans showed it off. Most of the people in there at the time were political prisoners. They were members of the Communist and Social Democratic parties, or freemasons. Some were dissident clergy of various different Churches, and some were Jews. A significant number of them were homosexuals. The Nazi regime said they were there for their own protective custody—their re-education. They were kept in camps where they had to work hard every day. They were told what they had to do. They were told what they had to listen to. They were shown antisemitic magazines and horrible material that they had to inwardly digest. If they ever told anyone what was going on there, whether they told the truth or not, they were subjected to even harsher punishment. On top of that, it was felt that many of those people were being deliberately driven towards suicide.

Every one of those elements is present in what is going on in Xinjiang province in China at the moment. I want to say to Chinese friends that, just as that British MP in 1936 went to the new Germany as its friend and came back a harsh critic of Hitler’s regime—he ended up fighting and losing his life in the second world war to protect the freedoms of the kinds of people who were in Dachau—there is a danger that so too will China completely alienate the whole world community because of its actions in Xinjiang province and its treatment of the Uighurs. In many ways, some of what is happening to the Uighurs is even worse. There is the religious oppression, the refusal to allow people to have their own thoughts, the re-education, the deliberate reculturation and the attempt to destroy a whole community, but it is also applied to children. At least there were not children in Dachau.

[Mark Pritchard]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and happy to give him an extra minute by intervening on him. He mentioned alienating the whole world, but does he agree that it is not just about that—whether it happens or not—because, clearly, if China is breeding a counter-terrorism problem for itself, that will also be a counter-terrorism problem for the whole world, including the United Kingdom? Terrorists do not abide by national borders, so that is another incentive for the British Government to be slightly more robust on the issue than they probably have been to date.

[Chris Bryant]

There is a patent injustice, and injustice tends to lead to people taking some form of action. We would always want it to be legitimate and peaceful. The danger is, as the hon. Gentleman says, that the action being taken will be entirely counterproductive. China says that what is happening is meant to prevent terrorism, but it is far more likely to create it, in China and other parts of the world. Many people see their brothers and sisters on the other side of the world and feel that they are being hard done by, and want to do something about it.

What angers me is that the situation is all of a piece with the creation of a security state. I thought that the whole point of communism was to create a welfare state, but a security state is being created—exactly the opposite. I would also make the point to China that it has done extraordinarily well in the last 20, 30 or 40 years out of the international rule of law. It has served it well and China has managed to make enormous advances economically and culturally. Now it stands, having previously tended to sit to the side in the international community, wanting to take a much more central part in the world—hence all the various initiatives it has come up with around the world. It will not be able to do that if it does not abide by the international rule of law in its own country. On those two points its actions are utterly counterproductive—even if one were to accept the moral outrage that is what is happening to the Uighurs.

I want to end with a point about the Magnitsky Act. It is about time we had such legislation on the statute book. It has been promised repeatedly by the Foreign Secretary and I hope that the Minister will update us on when it will be published, when it will be able to go through, and when we will be able to use it.

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[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Sharma. I am battling through a cold at the moment, so I hope Members will bear with me.

[Chris Bryant]

A cold?

[David Linden]

It is definitely a cold—that has been confirmed.

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) for securing today’s debate. The hon. Members for Congleton (Fiona Bruce), for St Helens South and Whiston (Ms Rimmer), for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns), for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi), for Strangford (Jim Shannon), for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) and for Gloucester (Richard Graham) all made impassioned speeches, and I think the debate has been enriched by that.

At the risk of repeating what has already been said, I will seek to limit my remarks to a few key areas. This matter is certainly not new. It has been widely reported as far back as April 2017 that the Uighurs and other Muslims, including ethnic Kazakhs and Uzbeks, have been detained. The fact that we are talking about this issue three years later is shameful. What is truly alarming about the situation in Xinjiang is the sheer scale and institutional nature of the repression. Reports from the region paint a very bleak picture indeed. More than 1 million Uighur Muslims have been arbitrarily detained in re-education camps. Most of the people detained have never been charged with any crimes and have no legal avenues whatever to free themselves. For many of those who have been detained, the harsh reality is that their only crime is being Muslim.

Uighur Muslims have been identified as extremists purely for practising their religion, but this is not the first time that I have spoken about freedom of religious belief in China. Many will be aware of the persecution of Christians and Falun Gong adherents, to name but two religious minorities. That of course flies in the face of China’s own constitution, which specifically protects freedom of religious belief, yet time and again we see that not to be the case at all.

What particularly worries me is the UK’s response. A recent report by the Foreign Affairs Committee notes that some of China’s international interests actively conflict with those of the UK Government. It stated that the

“current framework of UK policy towards China reflects an unwillingness to face this reality.”

The report further urges the UK Government to actively respond

“to China’s attempts to subvert international human rights mechanisms, and support UN efforts to investigate the extremely concerning situation in Xinjiang.”

Our post-Brexit reality adds a new aspect to the situation. The former Brexit Secretary, the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis), believed—perhaps naively—that we should look to China to replace our lost trade with Europe and deliver our future economic salvation. We have passed that point now, but there really are fundamental issues at play regarding trade and the price we are prepared to pay. For me, turning a blind eye is simply not an option, and I am on the record saying that many times, particularly in relation to India. I have this overwhelming fear that human rights may be forgotten or overlooked in the rush and scramble to conclude a trade deal. I am sure the Minister will seek to reassure me on that point when he responds. However, he can understand my scepticism, given the Government’s track record.

Since the EU referendum in 2016, the number of arms export licences issued to countries on the Foreign Office’s own human rights watch list has doubled, so the Minister will understand my concern and why so many of us in this House seek proper reassurances and guarantees on the Government’s commitment to human rights and freedom of religious belief. Last week, the Minister tried to reassure me in the Chamber that the Government

“will not pursue trade to the exclusion of human rights.”—[Official Report, 3 March 2020; Vol. 672, c. 755.]

While that reassurance is welcome, we need to see it become a central tenet of any trade negotiations with other countries. I know that many here will share the view that human rights should form the foundation of any such talks, rather than being a consideration.

Moving forward, we need to see the UK exercising soft power where Xinjiang is concerned. I would like to hear a commitment from the Minister today that the Government will exert influence on China to welcome UN officials to the province without restrictions. We all need reassurances that the Government will also do all they can to encourage other countries to do likewise, because if we ignore persecution against religious minorities, we open the door for every kind of intolerance and persecution.

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[Nigel Adams]

Our concerns about this area and the report that my hon. Friend refers to are very well known. The research in the report, and the potential use of forced labour, gives us a better understanding of the situation. We contributed a small part of the overall funding to that research, although we did not play a part in the drafting of the report. It helps to inform us, and my hon. Friend raises a very good point.

[Chris Bryant]

Will the Minister give way?

[Nigel Adams]

I will move on; I do have to finish, and I hope to give my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin a couple of minutes at the end. I hope the hon. Gentleman will understand.

Our intelligence is that families are also obliged to host Chinese officials in their homes for extended periods, to demonstrate their loyalty to the Communist party. On the streets, Uighurs and other minorities are continuously watched by police, supported by extensive use of facial recognition technology and restrictions on movement.

Of all the severe restrictions, our greatest concern is that more than 1 million Uighurs and other ethnic minorities—more than 10% of the Uighur population—have been detained in internment camps. The deputy party secretary of Xinjiang stated in December that all detainees have been released from the camps. We have not seen sufficient evidence to support that statement and assess that a significant proportion remain in detention. It is unknown how long each individual is detained, what chance they have of release or whether they can appeal their detention. Clearly, detentions have split families, left children effectively orphaned and created a culture of fear.

China’s initial response to allegations of human rights abuses in Xinjiang was to deny the existence of the camps, but after a significant amount of evidence was reported and international attention increased, that position became untenable. China now describes the camps as education and training facilities. We recognise that Xinjiang is of significant geopolitical importance to China, both as an economic corridor to markets in central Asia, the middle east and Europe, and as home to large gas fields, half of China’s coal deposits and an estimated 20% of its oil reserves. However, although that may partly explain China’s strong security interests in Xinjiang, we believe, based on all available evidence, that its actions are disproportionate, systematic and counterproductive.

Innocent citizens have suffered greatly under the policies. We have been calling, via the UN, for China to close the camps, cease indiscriminate surveillance and restrictions on religion and culture, and allow UN observers unfettered access to the region. China is contravening its own constitutional provisions on freedom of religion and its obligations under the 1948 universal declaration of human rights. I reassure my hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin that the human rights situation in Xinjiang remains a priority for me, the Foreign Secretary and the UK Government as a whole. We strongly believe that everyone, everywhere, should enjoy equal rights and protection under the law.

My hon. Friend the Member for The Wrekin and the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) made the sensible point that China’s actions could be counter- productive in terms of the potential for being a breeding ground for terrorism. That argument is difficult to disagree with. My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), who knows the region incredibly well, made a similar point. China has some genuine terrorism concerns, but as I said, its actions are indiscriminate and disproportionate, and will be counter- productive in the long term.

My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) talked about the rights of children. I share her deep concern about the impact of the policies on children in particular. She also mentioned sanctions, as many Members did, including the hon. Member for Rhondda. The Foreign Secretary has announced that the UK will establish a global human rights sanctions regime under the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. We will lay secondary legislation to establish that regime in the coming months.

[Chris Bryant]

When?

[Nigel Adams]

It would be inappropriate to comment on potential designations before the regulations come into force.

[Chris Bryant]

But when will you lay the regulations?

[Nigel Adams]

The reality is that, now we have left the EU, designing the first piece of UK autonomous sanctions legislation will be complex, and it is worth taking the time to get it right. The hon. Member will have to have some patience, but the matter is very much on our radar and we will do it.