HS2 Funding Referendum Bill

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Baroness Primarolo

Friday 23rd January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I assure the Minister that I have never had any poverty of ambition either for my constituency or my country in all the years I have served both. He is claiming that the costs have now come down on phase 1. Will he tell us the new cost-benefit ratio?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. The Bill suggests that we pose this question in a referendum:

“Do you support the use of …taxpayers’ money to pay for the construction of the HS2 railway?”

We are now drifting well away from the subject of the referendum and the total costs. We are discussing not the individual costs, Minister and Mrs Gillan, but that principle. I am listening carefully to the Minister, who could never be accused of not being ambitious and confident. I would like him ambitiously and confidently to return to the central proposition of whether there should be a referendum.

[Mr Hayes]

rose—

[Mrs Gillan]

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker; I have been leading the Minister astray. However, my points have been in the interests of the taxpayers who would be consulted in the referendum. I do apologise.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

No apology is necessary; I am sure that nobody could lead the Minister astray even with the skills you show in representing your constituents, Mrs Gillan. Your points may be relevant, but we have been discussing only the minutiae and we need to return to the big picture.

High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill

Debate between Cheryl Gillan and Baroness Primarolo

Thursday 31st October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Gillan]

I beg to move amendment 20, page 1, line 12, at end insert—

‘(2A) Expenditure permitted under this Act and in connection with the network (including rolling stock to be used on it) is limited to £50 billion.’.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 30 , page 1, line 12 , at end insert—

‘(2A) Expenditure under this Act shall be limited to £5 billion.’.

Amendment 15, page 1, line 13, leave out ‘includes’ and insert ‘is restricted to’.

Amendment 21, page 2, line 1, at end insert—

‘(4) No payments in connection with expenditure under this Act shall be made to personal service companies, meaning any body set up for the purposes of allowing an individual or group of individuals to receive payments indirectly, including so as to reduce any part of their tax liability. The Secretary of State shall have power to make rules defining such companies, which shall be laid before and approved by resolution of both Houses of Parliament.’.

Amendment 22, page 2, line 1, at end insert—

‘(4) No bonuses shall be paid to any person working on the network or the preparatory work for it, and the expenditure authorised under this Act does not extend to the payment of any bonus. The Secretary of State shall have power to make rules defining such bonuses, which shall be laid before and approved by resolution of both Houses of Parliament.’.

Amendment 27, page 2, line 2, at end insert

‘For the purposes of Barnett formula spending, the network shall be designated an England-only project.’.

Government amendment 25.

Amendment 8, in clause 2, page 2, line 15, at end insert—

‘(d) the number and value of contracts placed with—

(i) UK companies with fewer than 500 employees,

(ii) UK companies with more than 500 employees, and

(iii) non-UK companies.’.

Amendment 16, page 2, line 15, at end insert—

‘(d) all expenditure in all departments across Government on matters related to the high speed railway transport network.’.

Government amendment 26.

Amendment 6, page 2, line 24, at end add—

‘(6) As soon as is reasonably practicable after preparatory spending ceases the Secretary of State will place before Parliament a final financial report, setting out all spending authorised by this legislation and including equivalent information to that required under subsection (2).’.

Amendment 31, page 2, line 24, at end add—

‘(6) Within six months of Royal Assent the Secretary of State shall present to Parliament an estimate of the expenditure to be incurred under section 1 during the period ending on 31 March 2015.

(7) On or before 30 September 2015 and on the anniversary thereof in each subsequent year the Secretary of State shall present to Parliament an estimate of the expenditure to be incurred under section 1 during the year ending 31 March following the date of such presentation.’.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Gillan]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Before the right hon. Lady resumes her comments, may I gently remind her that she has been speaking for some 16 minutes? The knife comes down at 4 o’clock and there are many other Members who would like to speak on this group of amendments, so I hope she might be coming to a conclusion.

[Mrs Gillan]

Indeed, Madam Deputy Speaker, I am.

Finally, on my amendment 16, I say, “Mark my words”: the cost to the taxpayer, the council tax payer and other Departments will rise and rise. The costs in Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool just of promoting the project show that there is public money going into the project which is not being accounted for, particularly in the Bill.

Will the Minister include and publish the costs that have been incurred and will be incurred on a regular basis in other Departments, such as the Department for Communities and Local Government, the Department of Energy and Climate Change, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Treasury? If we do not get to see those costs, the Government will be concealing the real cost of HS2, which should be taken into consideration.