EU Working Time Directive (NHS)

Debate between Charlotte Leslie and Neil Parish

Thursday 26th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[Charlotte Leslie]

My hon. Friend raises a good point that will be of great interest as things progress. In a culture in which litigation against the NHS is becoming more and more common, what will happen if patients feel that their safety has been compromised because of the lack of training received by their doctors? The European directive raises all sorts of issues about patients’ rightful expectations of those who treat them.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for the excellent speech that she is delivering. This, of course, is the social chapter that Tony Blair signed up to in 1997 kicking in, and I suggest that the Government might want to get us out of that legislation. I feel that irrespective of what length of time doctors might work, it is down to them to negotiate that with hospitals, rather than have it imposed by a directive. That is the biggest problem; things must be done by negotiation and not by directive.

[Charlotte Leslie]

Again, I agree with my hon. Friend. One of the most destructive things is that the directive puts a cap on excellence. If people want to put in extra time to become excellent in their field and be a world-leading expert, they will not be allowed to because someone in Brussels and the new deal says no. That worries me tremendously in terms of our competitiveness with the rest of the world. We have some of the world’s leading experts in many fields of medicine, but America and Australia do not have such restrictions and they will pull away because we simply will not see talent coming through. Worse than that, a country that says to bright, talented young people who are going into a service occupation to serve the public, “We are going to put a cap on your endeavour” is a country of which none of us would want to be part. The precedent that that sets is absolutely diabolical.

Let me come to an issue that is much more difficult. It is easy to sit and point to problems, but some things are much more difficult, especially, as hon. Members have said, when they involve the dreaded E-word—Europe. What can we do? There is no doubt that there is a massive consensus across the medical profession that something needs to be done. The Royal College of Surgeons, the Royal College of Physicians, the NHS Confederation and NHS employers all say that they have massive concerns about the country’s health service. However, an interesting omission from that list is the British Medical Association, which seems absolutely content. It wants to keep the opt-out, but it seems absolutely content with the SiMAP and Jaeger rules that are playing havoc with our hospitals and with situations that are driving many junior doctors to despair and sick notes. I guess that it negotiated the new deal, but it is odd and disappointing that, on this issue, it seems so unrepresentative of so many fields of the profession.

Ministers have said that they are working urgently with Europe for a solution. I have no doubt that that is true, and I appreciate the complexity of the situation. However, I am beginning to think that waiting for a solution to come out of Europe is like waiting for Godot. As hon. Members will know, this debate has been revolving around the European Commission and the European Parliament for almost a decade. It has come back again, and people are still trying to agree on what they are going to discuss. They have until September this year to agree that, but given past history, I have no faith whatsoever that an agreement is on the cards, let alone any results, and the precedent that has been set is not encouraging. While that farce has been going on in Europe, the clock has been ticking every day. Every day, patients’ lives are put at risk; every year, new generations of doctors enter a system that does not serve them, their patients, or the country.

What can we do? First, we should look at what we want. As I have said, no one wants a return to the bad old days when junior doctors were working ridiculous hours and were too tired to function, and patient safety was put at risk. The professions say that they want flexibility. For example, the Royal College of Surgeons has said that a working week of up to 65 hours, with a bit of flexibility, would be extremely good, and that will differ from discipline to discipline. Anaesthetists may want something slightly different from the surgeons, but the point is that our professionals know what they are talking about and what they are doing, and they deserve the flexibility to drive their services as they see fit. The Government have taken seriously the agenda to put professionals in the driving seat. We want flexibility, not arbitrary limits on times.

What can we do? My hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) has already mentioned what some other countries do. In the Netherlands, for example, doctors are classed as autonomous workers, because they earn more than three times the average wage in that country. We can look at such a classification, although that might be a complicated solution.