Universities: Freedom of Speech
Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Julian Lewis(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Catherine McKinnell
My hon. Friend raises an important point, which is why we are currently talking to people with a range of views, including those supportive of the provisions in the Act. We are listening to the concerns of minority groups and others that the Act could encourage universities and colleges to overlook the safety and wellbeing of minorities because of a fear of complaints and costly legal action, pushing them towards allowing abhorrent hate speech. That is why we are considering this legislation. We need to get this right.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Can the Minister give us any specific examples of a scenario with which the Government were confronted by these people who have successfully lobbied for a pause, other than just speaking in general terms about the legislation being disproportionate?
Catherine McKinnell
I appreciate the right hon. Gentleman’s thoughtful question. I cannot give him a specific example today. The principle that we are working to is that we are looking in great detail at all aspects and all concerns that have been raised, as well as supportive comments, in relation to the Act and what it seeks to achieve. I will pass his question on to the Minister for higher education and skills and ask her to respond accordingly.
Ofsted
Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Julian Lewis(3 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Catherine McKinnell
I thank my hon. Friend and very much welcome the opportunity to thank all our teachers as they go back to school this week. They will be putting in a really hard and rewarding year ahead, and will give the best to the children in their care.
I absolutely echo what my hon. Friend says. We were clear from day one in government that we want to work in partnership with the sector. We know that the Government do not deliver education to children: our teachers do; our schools do; our support staff do; and the parents who make sure their children get to school do. We support them all in that endeavour, but where we can do more to support them in delivering that, we will. The announcements that we are making are part of that endeavour.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
When my sister Lee took what were then called her GCE exams in the early 1960s, she was given a specific mark for each exam result. By the time I took mine in the late 1960s, that system had been replaced by one of grades, which merged together all sorts of different results and was likely to lead to subjectivity and relativism henceforth. Could not the simplistic one-word system that is now being replaced be replaced by a proper marking system, where individual aspects of a school are specifically marked and an overall figure given, which would therefore not be subjective, but would give parents an easy guide as to the performance of the school?
Leaving the European Union
Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Julian Lewis(5 years, 8 months ago)
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Catherine McKinnell
The hon. Lady makes the point well. There are people who think that the radical approach of democratically asking the public what they think would unleash an almighty backlash and all sorts of dangerous extremism, but I say to them that such extremism clearly exists already. We saw it on the streets of London on Friday and I am certainly not prepared to roll over and appease it.
However, there is always the prospect that the Prime Minister will refuse to change her approach and that she will lurch ever closer to 12 April with the threat of our crashing out of the EU still with us. That brings me to the third e-petition that we are considering today, which calls for article 50 to be revoked and for the UK to remain in the EU.
As hon. Members will be aware, this petition has been supported by an unprecedented number of people, although that is not surprising, because we live in unprecedented times. Indeed, this is the most signed petition ever received on the petitions website of the House of Commons and the Government. As of 3.30 pm today, it had received a staggering 6,034,845 signatures, over 26,000 of which come from my city of Newcastle.
Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
That is indeed an extremely impressive total of petition signatories. Therefore, would the hon. Member like to suggest that instead of having held the referendum in the first place, it would have been sufficient to put an e-petition in and get that particular fraction of the population voting for it, in order to set aside a democratic vote by a much larger number of people?
Catherine McKinnell
I am sure that is now on the record and the Petitions Committee, which is a formal cross-party Committee of the House that processes the petitions tabled by members of the public which reach the threshold for a petition to be debated, will obviously notify the people who have signed it, to tell them that the issue has been tabled for debate or that there is a response from the Government.
When someone signs a petition, they are directed to their MP, so that they can let them know if they want to. I have been contacted directly by constituents who have signed the petition and who want me to know that they have signed it, and obviously they can then receive feedback from me as a Member of Parliament. I am sure that there are many members of the public who have signed the petition who will be watching the proceedings today with great interest.
Dr Lewis
The hon. Lady is being terribly courteous and I really appreciate it. Let us just try this new form of democracy a bit more. Let us suppose that her party—the Labour party—gets its wish and there is a general election. Guess what? The Labour party wins and the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) becomes Prime Minister. Then, some of us who did not like the result set up a petition and get 6 million people to say, “No, we ought to revoke that result and do it again”. Would she be satisfied with that?
Catherine McKinnell
May I clarify matters for the right hon. Gentleman, because he does not seem to understand the nature of a petition, which is a very long-established process in Parliament and a way for our constituents to express their view on matters, and for many years—probably since it began—Parliament has processed petitions and tabled them on behalf of MPs’ constituents? The nature of our modern democracy is that the petitions process has gone online and it was indeed the former Prime Minister who created the Government’s online petitions system in 2010. Since then, it has grown in popularity and use.
As a member of the Petitions Committee, I know that it processes a range of petitions on any subject that Members can imagine, but no petition has received the number of signatures that this petition has, and the right hon. Gentleman seems somewhat irked by that. However, a petition does not replace our normal democratic processes. It is simply a reflection of the level of interest in this issue and the strength of feeling among the public, for which, as representatives of our constituents, we ought to be very grateful, as they have the means to make their voices heard—and this petition is a roar.
Catherine McKinnell
Those concerns are being expressed by many members of the public as they watch the reality of the 2016 referendum campaign and vote unravel. As we get closer and closer to 12 April, I have been making it clear to my constituents that I am prepared to support the revocation of article 50 if necessary, to prevent our country from leaving the EU without a deal.
It is because I am as patriotic, and care as passionately about the future of my city, my region and my country, as anyone that I cannot stand back and watch us crash out of the EU in that way. Allowing such a scenario would be a dereliction of my duty as a Member of Parliament, which is clearly set out as that of acting in the interests of the nation as a whole, with a special duty to my constituents. It would be contrary to the responsibilities of Members of the House as set out by Edmund Burke as far back as 1774:
“Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.”
And, indeed, contrary to the guidance of Sir Winston Churchill:
“The first duty of a Member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain.”
Those duties weigh heavily on us all, and they are responsibilities that I take very seriously.
Dr Julian Lewis
There is one slight difference between the hon. Lady’s examples and what happened in 2016, when the MPs, the Government and the Opposition—everyone—agreed that they would take the view of the electorate directly and obey the verdict that they gave them. That did not apply in the scenario she describes relating to Edmund Burke, great constitutionalist though he was.
Dr Lewis
I am sorry; I thought the hon. Lady wanted an answer now. I think there are three possibilities: the Government’s deal, leaving on World Trade Organisation terms and revoking the result of the referendum. I, together with 158 of my colleagues, which is more than half the parliamentary Conservative party, voted in the multiple options we were given about a week ago that we should leave on WTO terms, and I think that would be the right solution.