Israel and Palestine

Carolyn Harris Excerpts

Monday 16th December 2024 Westminster Hall

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

Order. As Members can see, the debate is very oversubscribed. I will set a time limit of four minutes, but if interventions continue as they have, I anticipate that it will be reduced. If Members are on my call list, they need to be at a seat. I ask Members who have made an intervention and who are not down to speak to make way for Members who are waiting to speak. I also remind Members taking interventions that, as generous as it may be to the person they allow to speak, it means that Members at the bottom of the call list will not have an opportunity to speak. I leave that to your judgment.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell]

I will be careful with my language here, but one of the frustrations, in this debate as well, is getting the truth about what is happening and what is contributing to the murders that are taking place. Unless we can stop that and prevent the UK from participating, we will all be implicated. History will judge us all for not doing enough to stop it.

I am pleased that the petition has taken place and pleased about the numbers; I congratulate the people who organised it. The petition represents the sense of frustration felt out there and the real depth of anger. I have been on virtually every national demonstration. They have been peaceful, but there is a level of frustration that I do not think we can contain any more. We are alienating whole sections of our own community. It is not about the Labour party or other political parties, but democracy itself. People say, “You’re an MP. You go to Parliament. Why aren’t you stopping this? It’s no good just shouting on demonstrations. Why isn’t democracy being exercised to stop this?”

I want to make just one point about the lack of action by the Government. Yes, petitions are taking place, but other people are taking direct action and have been imprisoned. Those cases will be sub judice, so I will not mention them individually. But Palestine Action took direct action to close down an arms factory that was supplying goods and materials for the F-35 and the drones. Those people were arrested under counter-terrorism powers and detained. They are young people, a lot of them young women—some of them just starting out at university. They exercised their influence and power because we failed to exercise ours. Some have been in court; when they are in front of a jury, they usually win the case. A number of them are now on remand and will have been in prison since last March until next November, when their trial is listed.

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind the right hon. Member that the case is sub judice and we should not talk about it.

[John McDonnell]

I am careful about not mentioning any names. I am raising the issue of the process itself, which is the use of counter-terrorism powers against direct action groups. The last Government even came forward with proposals and discussions about proscribing Palestine Action as a terrorist organisation. I hope this Government are not going anywhere near that.

But why are the people in prison at the moment on remand? Why can they not be tagged before their trial comes up next November? A number of them, most probably, will be proven innocent, but they will have served nearly two years in prison—for what? For trying to do what we are failing to do: prevent this Government from supplying arms to a regime that kills children.

I say to the Government: it is now time to act. All arms licences need to be closed down. The Minister may say that it is a matter of defending Israel; if so, let us have a conversation with Israel itself about how to supervise that defence internationally, rather than using it as an excuse to kill children. I have had enough of coming back here every week—as you can tell, Mrs Harris. We need action from the Government now.