Solar Power (Feed-in Tariff)

Debate between Caroline Flint and Andrew George

Wednesday 23rd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

My hon. Friend makes a good point about the damage that has already been done to many businesses around the country. I will come to his point about the impact not only on insulations but on manufacturing in Great Britain.

We are happy to have a debate about why the Government are cutting help for pensioners this winter, when they need it more than ever, and about why this Government have stood back and allowed the big six to increase their profit margins to record levels while energy bills have soared, but let us also have a debate about why this Government have failed to stand up to vested interests in the energy industry and failed to reform our market.

Let us not pretend that the Government’s approach to today’s debate is about some new-found concern for bill payers. However much Ministers like to claim feed-in tariffs cost the public, when 25,000 people lose their jobs—[Interruption.] Government Members might not like to hear this, but people may be laid off this Christmas as a result of an ill-thought-through strategy. When 25,000 people lose their jobs, when the Treasury loses the taxes and national insurance they pay, and when we have to pay out unemployment benefit, the costs will be a lot higher. This Government would rather pay people to be on the dole than support an industry of the future.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I think we all accept that this is an extremely difficult issue to resolve. Given that the right hon. Lady is advancing the case that the Government are making the wrong decision, by how much is she prepared to see bills rise in order to sustain the tariff at the current level and in line with the level of income for people with solar PV?

[Caroline Flint]

I respect the fact that the hon. Gentleman has probably raised concerns about how his coalition Ministers have approached this issue. As I said, according to Ofgem, we are talking about less than £1 on people’s annual bills. What we said in our urgent question and have proposed in the motion is that we need to work to see how we can change the scheme as it moves forward, but in a sustainable way. The problem is that we have not had a chance to have this debate because the hon. Gentleman’s Ministers, in his Government, have chosen to set a cut-off date of 12 December even though they are still consulting until 23 December. When answering the questions about how we have got to where we are today, they have more to answer for than us.

Myth No. 3 is that the scheme would run out of money if it carried on as it is. In the past few weeks, I have spoken to a lot of people in the solar industry. I have yet to find a single person who argues that the scheme should carry on unchanged. I am sure that that has come across in the lobbying of Members on both sides of the House. Not even the industry is calling for that. It wants planned, sensible reductions in tariffs. That is exactly what we would have done. When we introduced the scheme in 2010, we made it clear that there would be a review in 2013, or earlier if needed, to look at tariff levels and whether the scheme was delivering value for money.

Let us get serious. We have a cut of more than 50% with just six weeks’ notice. Is that reasonable? Is that fair? Is that sustainable? I suggest that it is not. To make matters worse, the first that the industry heard of it was when it was summoned to the Department after the announcement had been made.

Frankly, the only reason that feed-in tariffs need reform is that this Government have managed the scheme so badly since coming to power. It is no good blaming us. Before the election, Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members accused us of lacking ambition. They said that what we set up did not go far enough. The Conservative party said that feed-in tariffs should be paid to solar installed before April 2010 and that it would raise the capacity threshold for qualifying schemes from 5 MW to 10 MW. The position of the Liberal Democrats was also clear. Far from saying that our scheme was too generous, they wanted it to be more generous. Their spokesman at the time, the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), said:

“Labour’s plans are too little too late.”

I tried to speak to him on Monday to confirm that that was still his position, but he spurned my advances. We wait to see whether he will join us in the Lobby this evening.

The fourth myth is that if we did not implement the Government’s cuts, solar power would be available only to the lucky few. However, it is the Secretary of State’s cuts that will exclude nearly nine out of 10 households from having solar power. It is his cuts that will prevent families living in social housing from having solar power. It is his cuts that will once again make solar power the preserve of the wealthy few.

Energy Prices

Debate between Caroline Flint and Andrew George

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

Absolutely. There is no point in the companies having a system that does not recognise the situation of ordinary families. The National Pensioners Convention talks about the fact that fewer than six in 10 pensioners have access to a computer to go online. It is not fair or right. The onus should be on the companies, not the public. However, all the Secretary of State could do this week was blame the public: “It’s your fault you’re not getting out there and getting a better deal. It’s your fault you’re not saving yourselves £200 a time.” He has got a lot to answer for, because he has just sat back and let people suffer.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

The right hon. Lady bemoans the unfairness in the direct debit discounts and the way in which those suffering from fuel poverty are treated by the system—there is also an issue with rising block tariffs—but all those things happened in the 13 years of the Labour Government. She is absolutely right to raise those important issues, but what did her Government do in that time to address them?

[Caroline Flint]

For a start, we had the most ambitious programme to help people in fuel poverty deal with their bills—the Government are cutting those measures—but we also started discussions across Europe about having Europe-wide legislation to tackle some of those issues by not only giving greater powers to regulators but ensuring more openness and transparency. I will talk about this more later, but I am sad to say that we are seven months overdue in implementing that legislation and putting into statute powers that we can use to control parts of the market. Perhaps the Secretary of State will say something more about why the package that my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition was negotiating when he was Climate Change Secretary has not been implemented.

Research published by the consumer group Which? showed that when people contacted the big six energy firms to ask how they could save money—that is, when they made the effort that the Secretary of State lectures us about—a third of them were given misleading advice. Either those customers were deliberately misled or the tariffs were so complicated that not even the staff selling them understood them. Can we imagine any other product or service where we would accept four out of five customers being overcharged—not just once, but time and time again—and nothing being done about it? When four out of five families are paying over the odds for their electricity and gas it shows how out of touch this Government are to lecture people about shopping around.

People do not want a Government who blame them for the fact that their energy bills have gone up. Families and businesses that do the right thing, work hard and play by the rules cannot understand why this Government are not only allowing electricity and gas companies to increase bills by so much, but seem to be apologising on their behalf. On Monday the Energy Secretary told the “Today” programme:

“Energy companies are not the Salvation Army”,

and said that he expected them to

“earn respectable returns for their shareholders”.

We know that the energy companies are not the Salvation Army, but it should not be Government policy to drive people into the arms of the Salvation Army either.