Business of the House

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Penny Mordaunt

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his very helpful advert to all Members for forthcoming debates. I will ensure that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has also heard the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about the bridge and, again, I will ask the Department for Transport to lean in.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

May I add my tribute to Tony Lloyd? He was a good man, who never underestimated or undervalued the extreme power of kindness.

The Leader of the House will have seen last month’s judgment in the case of the Duke of Sussex v. Mirror Group Newspapers Ltd, which records that witnesses for MGN accepted that, in 2007, the Culture, Media and Sport Committee was misled by the then executives at The Mirror trying to conceal the illegal and unlawful activities that were going on. The individual accused of misleading the Committee died in 2022. Does the Leader of the House agree that any attempts to mislead Committees are unacceptable, but especially those by media organisations, from which the public and Parliament expect honesty and integrity? Will she commit to keep the important issue of Select Committee powers under review, so that Committees such as mine can continue to operate without obstruction?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question. The powers and privileges of this House are necessary to enable Parliament to function freely and fully, and it is vital that Select Committees are able to obtain full and accurate evidence from witnesses as part of their inquiries. That is critical. The powers available to this House and Select Committees have been under continual review, and they have been investigated numerous times in the past decades. It is, of course, very frustrating when witnesses do not co-operate with Select Committees, and the Government support this House in asserting its powers to ensure that it can scrutinise effectively.

Business of the House

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Penny Mordaunt

Thursday 30th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his advert for forthcoming debates. It is good to know that the Backbench Business Committee is busy. I will certainly let him know as soon as possible about the week of 18 December. He will know that we always try to give as much notice as possible.

I am very sorry to hear about his ongoing constituency issue. That is why we believe minimum service standards in vital sectors—transport is one of them—are so important. I will make sure that the Transport Secretary has heard about that ongoing situation. It is very well understood that students from lower socioeconomic groups will be disproportionately affected by such action.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

May we have a debate on decisions by probation and prison services to release on licence? Last Friday, my constituent Levi Kent was stabbed to death. The man charged with his murder was sentenced to two years in prison for wounding with intent just in January this year and was released on licence in September. Will my right hon. Friend back my calls for a serious case review into the licensing decision and monitoring, which may have freed someone who should be in prison to murder?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sure I speak for the whole House when I say how appalled we are to hear of that situation. Our thoughts are with my hon. Friend’s constituents and all those affected by this appalling tragedy. The Lord Chancellor is aware of this case. I am sure it will need to be subject to a review into what happened in this instance, but I know the Lord Chancellor’s door is always open to her and I think he may have already contacted her. I thank her for all she is doing in her constituency in the aftermath of this appalling event.

Arctic Convoy Veterans Medal

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Penny Mordaunt

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Westminster Hall

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. She mentioned the Africa star. Not only does the campaign star system allow for such a stand-alone medal—the Italy star is another example—but it permits recognition of a significant event, battle or sustained effort; for example, the one-off clasp, the 1939-1945 star, to commemorate the battle of Britain. Does she agree that there has been a worrying complacency on this matter, in that neither of those ready solutions has been proposed? Today, the Ministry of Defence’s own website does not even mention the convoys in the criteria for the Atlantic star.

[Caroline Dinenage]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point and has worked extremely hard on this campaign, as we all have. There is a ready-made solution within the star framework. The complacency in relation to rewarding these extraordinary men is, in many ways, shameful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Lady makes a super point and underlines the strength of feeling on the subject up and down the country. It is almost impossible to understand why our brave servicemen have been rewarded by other countries and not by our own. It is not only a local issue, as she pointed out. Loch Ewe, from where the convoys were launched, has a museum and an annual service of remembrance, and the Scottish Government are even considering including the story of the Arctic convoys in their national curriculum. When I raised the matter at Prime Minister’s questions in January, the incredible outpouring of support I received came from all over the world and from as far afield as Canada and Australia. The medal has the support of people in all walks of life, young and old, and nowhere more so than among our serving servicemen and women. Next year, a new diamond jubilee medal will be awarded to anyone who has completed five years of service in the military, whether on active service or not. Many of the young people in the armed forces in my constituency have said that, if it is only a matter of money, they will happily forgo their own medal in order to afford one for the Arctic convoy veterans.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way to me for a second time. Is she aware that the £12.3 million estimate for an Arctic convoy medal is based on incorrect numbers of servicemen and costings? Looking at the actual costs of other medals and allowing for inflation and even design costs, which obviously would not have to be included, I am hard pushed to reach even £1.2 million.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that information, which further underlines the obstacles that are being put in the way of doing the right thing. The Ministry of Defence was asked to review the medals system in July 2010, and it took 16 months to get nowhere. However, time is of the essence. It is 70 years since the first convoys, and the remaining veterans are in their 80s and 90s; of the thousands who took part in the convoys, only 200 are yet alive.

SMEs (South of England)

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Penny Mordaunt

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Westminster Hall

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Streeter, for allowing me to raise this important topic. As a director of a small business based in the south of England, I fall squarely into a category that necessitates me to declare an interest in the subject matter. However, holding such a position also allows me to share some first-hand experience with hon. Members.

Small and medium-sized enterprises hold the key to a successful private sector-led economic recovery in the UK. At a recent UK Trade & Investment maritime sector meeting, I learned that the proportion of UK exports accounted for by SMEs was 5% below the European average. If the UK were simply to raise that level to the average, it would generate a staggering £43.6 billion of additional GDP. That is enough to wipe out the UK’s current account deficit two times over. It is important to keep that in mind when discussing SMEs. These businesses may be small, but they have truly enormous power to drive our economy.

In previous debates in this Chamber, I have highlighted factors that afflict small businesses and limit their growth. In particular, I raised my concerns about the creeping trend of larger businesses putting unfair influence on supply chain companies, such as by extending their payment terms, and the continuing difficulties small businesses face in trying to secure funding from banks. That context is important as we should not view the Government’s role in isolation from all the other factors affecting small businesses.

I strongly believe that the Government “get it” when it comes to SMEs, and they have made it clear that they support their growth and longevity. They continue to put pressure on the big banks to increase their lending to small businesses. They have reinvigorated the enterprise finance guarantee scheme and established a number of new, highly targeted grants. It is clear that the Minister and his Department are working extremely hard to put UK companies on a firm footing.

When the Minister visited my constituency, he will have seen a site called Daedalus, a former naval airbase that now serves as home to a number of small aviation and marine-based businesses. This vast site is being promoted as a potential enterprise zone by the Solent local economic partnership, which will also submit a regional growth fund grant application to support its redevelopment as a hub for business innovation for the entire region. I hope the Minister appreciates the importance of the redevelopment of that site for the future prosperity of the constituency.

It is clear that the Minister also understands the need for the job market to end its over-reliance on the public sector. The need to encourage growth, commerce and manufacturing as part of a private sector-led recovery is at the centre of the Government’s plans, and I commend that approach. After all, it is far more sustainable to grow our way out of a recession than to spend our way out of it. However, the need to rebalance the economy in favour of the private sector applies beyond the boundaries of the north and the midlands. It is a concern to my constituents and many of my colleagues here today that only one project in south-east England succeeded in the first round of regional growth fund applications, as opposed to 14 in the north-east. The Government’s analysis of the first round RGF grants makes for interesting reading. The maps provided on the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills website show a stark contrast between the money diverted north and support for projects in the south.

I represent one of a cluster of constituencies in the Solent area that, together, share all the characteristics of towns and cities in the north of England: public sector dependency, low average wages, low levels of educational attainment and areas of multiple deprivation. On most measurable scales, including unemployment and business growth, Gosport is well behind some of the areas further north that continue to enjoy strong economic support from the Government.

If we were to plonk Gosport in the middle of the north, it would be the second worst performing local authority area in the entire north-east in terms of public sector job dependency. It would also have the third worst ratio of jobs to people in that region, with less than half a job per working adult, whereas the English national average is 0.8% of a job. With its number of active businesses per 10,000 residents being just 25.5, Gosport is the 13th worst performing area in that regard in the entire UK. Almost 35% of working adults in the constituency are employed by the public sector, which is one of the highest such dependency rates in the entire country, and that is before counting the thousands of people who work in the armed forces, especially the Royal Navy, and who call Gosport their home.

Gosport is at least as reliant on public sector jobs as cities further north, yet it appears to have been excluded from wider Government support. Certain Government measures to promote the growth of the private sector have also been denied to the south-east as a whole. I am, of course, speaking of the national insurance contribution exemption for start-up businesses. I cannot help but find that decision a little unfair as research by the Forum of Private Business shows that 51% of businesses in the south-east considered taxation to be the greatest barrier to growth, which is the highest proportion in the UK.

[Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Although Portsmouth fares slightly better than Gosport, we are still described as a northern town on the south coast. Does my hon. Friend know that we fall far short of the Treasury’s projections and ambitions for the national insurance contribution holiday? Although that might have been the right policy to start with, it is not having the desired effect. Now would be a good time to expand the criteria for qualification to include not just different geographic locations and start-ups, but small businesses that hope to expand substantially over the next few years.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Dinenage]

The hon. Gentleman makes a strong point. Yesterday, I met a small business owner in my constituency who is on the brink of losing his business and his house. Against a property that is worth £500,000, the bank will only lend him £50,000, which goes nowhere near far enough towards supporting him in trying to keep his business and his family together.

Although the Government clearly recognise that there are pockets of need in the south-east, it is thought to be extremely difficult to target national insurance investment at a sub-regional level. That may be the case, but such difficulties are not insurmountable. My constituents should not have to accept not receiving help they badly need purely because it is felt that giving them that help would be too difficult.

[Penny Mordaunt]

On that point, we know from questions tabled to the Treasury that the costs of providing that help, either at unitary authority level or district level, would not be so prohibitively high as to stop such a scheme going ahead.

[Caroline Dinenage]

That is excellent news, and I know my hon. Friend has done a lot of work on this issue, for which I am very grateful.

I now want to highlight the significant benefits the regional growth fund has brought to certain regions. In the north of England, the RGF has so far created 10,750 jobs directly and 10,916 jobs indirectly, and in the midlands it has so far created 7,923 jobs directly and 37,809 jobs indirectly. By comparison, in the south-east and east of England combined, the RGF has created just 427 jobs directly and 361 jobs indirectly. It is therefore clear that the south gets next to no support from the RGF or enterprise zone designations. Moreover, firms in the south have to pay higher national insurance contributions than firms in other parts of the country. For me and the majority of my constituents—who work in a peninsula where there is, on average, less than half a job per working adult—that is a bitter pill to swallow.

Statistics can also misinform. If anyone looked at the data for private sector jobs created in Gosport, they would be led to believe that we are supporting a growing economy. Unfortunately, that “growth” comes as a direct result of public sector elements of the Ministry of Defence being privatised. For example, Fleetlands, which is the biggest employer in my constituency, has been privatised, becoming Vector Aerospace. That company is now in the private sector, but there are no new jobs. In reality, every year in Gosport more businesses go bust than are created. Officials must look beyond simple numbers and qualifying criteria when making decisions about which areas are in the greatest need of help. The south as a whole has benefited from the creation of large numbers of private sector jobs in the past. It should not be punished for being successful in that regard, and nor should those areas in the south that need help be excluded from Government support solely on the basis of geography.

I understand that the apportioning of Government funding to support business cannot be seen as a local issue. Of course Government funding must focus on achieving wider goals, and must be allowed to maximise the benefit of the schemes it supports for the greatest number of people. I also understand that the RGF and enterprise zone applications are subject to independent scrutiny, which is as it should be. However, I believe that many people have a misconception that the south of England is a universally prosperous region. I hope that I have made it clear that Gosport is certainly not universally prosperous, and I am sure that my colleagues would all be able to provide evidence of areas within their own constituencies that are desperately in need of regeneration.

Despite the difficulties private partnerships in my area face, I have been very impressed by some of their achievements. One such partnership received support from NatWest and Lombard to fund the purchase of a large milling machine worth nearly £500,000 by two Gosport businesses, Marine Concepts Ltd and the Curvature Group. This new joint venture has allowed UK companies to produce components for a wide variety of sectors, including marine, renewable energy, aviation and motor sport. Those sectors had previously required the services of businesses as far afield as Australia in order to meet their requirements. Such investment is creating real jobs as well as preserving the UK’s reputation as a centre for innovative manufacturing. That has been achieved by advanced manufacturing businesses successfully repositioning themselves from serving the Royal Navy to serving private clients across the world.

However, for every such partnership, there is another business struggling with the structural deficit left behind by a radically changed market, which in the case of Gosport has been caused by the contraction of the Royal Navy. Such businesses are willing to adapt, but they are unable to do so without help. For the past 700 years, Gosport—and, in fact, the whole Portsmouth area—has relied on the military to support its entire economy and employment. Much like a mining town or manufacturing centre, the contraction of our armed forces has been intrinsically linked with the falling fortunes of the local economy. However, when the size of the military declines, areas that are dependent on the military are not provided with the same level of Government protection as mining or industrial towns in decline.

Gosport needs to be seen not only as an area with economic problems, but as an area with the potential to reinvigorate itself, given the right encouragement. All the businesses situated on the Daedalus site understand the potential for growth. They are not looking for Government handouts. What they need are a few key measures that can help them create a viable business and the employment that comes with that.

First, they need certainty over the Daedalus site’s future. Historically, the site has been owned by many different Government agencies. There is a runway, yet small aviation businesses have sometimes not been allowed access to the site. Those businesses have not had the incentives to invest, nor the certainty that if they were to invest, they would be allowed to grow and flourish. They also need targeted tax and planning concessions, improved infrastructure and a level playing field; in other words, everything that an enterprise zone would provide.

All the businesses based in or around the Daedalus site are looking to expand, and they are prepared to spend money to do so. I spoke to the owner of one of them yesterday, who said that he was prepared to invest many thousands of pounds to take over a decrepit old building and turn it into a modern, state-of-the-art business premises, yet he had only been able to secure a 10-year lease from the regional development agency. Offering such a short lease is just not good business.

Many of the businesses on the site want to source local people to undertake apprenticeships or engage skilled engineers who are leaving the armed forces. The social benefits to my constituency—where 20% of 16 to 23-year-olds are not in education, employment or training—are clear, and this would help many young people realise their potential.

The lesson is obvious. If businesses feel secure enough to invest and have potential orders waiting in the wings, they will expand. Enterprise zones can create that security, while entrepreneurial business people have never had problems in generating business.

The Daedalus site also lends itself perfectly to the wider qualifying criteria for an enterprise zone. Its green credentials are fulfilled by providing opportunities for local employment, rather than necessitating long commutes by car. That would also have the benefit of relieving the pressure on the infamous A32, the only major road from Gosport that leads into the heart of the peninsula. The pressure placed on a beleaguered transport system burdens my constituents with hours of congestion, particularly during peak periods, as traffic struggles through bottlenecks, and 20,000 people have to out-commute to get to work every day. Gosport is the largest town in the UK without a railway station. Therefore, Gosport not only needs inward investment; it deserves it. That would finally allow the area to realise its full potential, and I am confident that it would also act as a beacon for investment from the private sector.

If I may stray briefly beyond discussion of the south to make a broader national point, I would also welcome clarification from the Minister about how applications for regional growth funding and enterprise zone status are co-ordinated. As he will be aware, the RGF is administered by an independent board under BIS, but the enterprise zone project is administered by the Department for Communities and Local Government. Some people involved in putting forward bids have said they are confused about how applications for both schemes by a single local enterprise partnership will be viewed. I would welcome a reassurance from the Minister that both Departments involved have a clear understanding of how each scheme complements the other, and I ask him to consider providing guidance on how dual applications can be dealt with, and to say whether such an approach would prejudice the likelihood of success. I might add that the application deadlines for both schemes are, after all, on the same day.

[Penny Mordaunt]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it would also be helpful if the Treasury were to allow a relaxation of competitive tendering rules? She identified the regeneration of Portsmouth harbour, which would benefit not only Gosport and Portsmouth, but Fareham and other nearby towns. However, that regeneration can only happen if the Treasury enables those rules to be relaxed. Clarification on that issue would also be helpful.

[Caroline Dinenage]

My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. As she says, many parts of the Portsmouth harbour area would benefit from that type of help.

I believe the case for business improvement measures in my constituency is compelling—indeed, overwhelming —as does the Solent LEP. I am certain that there are colleagues in Westminster Hall today from constituencies across the south of England who feel the same about projects in their own areas. Therefore, I would welcome a reassurance from the Minister that, first, he is aware of our concerns, and, secondly, he will do all he can to support and encourage the growth of small and medium-sized businesses in the south.

Portsmouth-London Railway Line

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Penny Mordaunt

Wednesday 9th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I will come to precisely those points and lay them before the House. I make no judgments, but I think the figures will speak for themselves. I also wish to offer the Minister some solutions, because it is part of the frustration for many commuters that the answers in terms of volumes of rolling stock are there.

Overcrowding is concentrated between Waterloo and Woking—the leg of the route that just takes the first 25 minutes. It should be recognised that trains between those stations operate about every four minutes. Those commuters have options, and the journey is suitable for a 450 carriage. Also, it seems that it is acceptable to have 97 people standing, as the eight-carriage 450 service—the 6.32, I believe, from Haslemere—that showed that figure did not need to expand. Admittedly, there is not the option there simply add a single coach, but the point remains.

Further undermining the argument that overcrowding must be addressed is the fact that the 140 extra seats cannot actually be used. People either cannot fit into them or choose not to. Portsmouth city council’s March 2010 survey found that 80% of people boarding south of Haslemere are not confident of getting a seat at busy times in a 450 carriage.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

The residents of Gosport hugely appreciate my hon. Friend’s securing of this Adjournment debate. I wonder whether she understands that South West Trains has an awareness that it is not just commuters from Portsmouth who board those trains; it is also commuters who then go across to the Isle of Wight, and of course those who catch a ferry over to Gosport, which is one of the largest towns in the country without its own railway station.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention. South West Trains cannot be anything other than aware of the enormous numbers of people who have been affected. As my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Mr Hancock) said, the problems have been going on for many years, and it is a source of great frustration that no solution has yet been found.

Returning to the number of seats and the difficulty of getting a seat south of Haslemere at busy times, 25% of people cannot find a seat at all. If it were a simple matter of the number of seats, there would not be such problems. We have a situation in which similar numbers of people might end up standing, but in a much narrower gangway. Network Rail reports that food sales at its stations are up 5%. I am sure Portsmouth residents are doing their bit, stocking up before boarding in the knowledge that the at-seat trolley service will be hauled up somewhere around the lavatory, where it will be in good company with the similarly impeded train guard.

The Association of Train Operating Companies reported 1.32 billion passenger journeys in 2010, 7% up on 2009 and 37% up on 2000—indeed, a number not seen since commuters could enjoy the charms of steam power. We should not allow this top-line figure to distort the true pattern of travel on individual lines. Even as a response to increased demand, the provision of more unusable seats is hardly adequate. In any case, surely it was a disproportionate response to replace 450s on more than 50% of weekday services, when only 10 or so out of 133 weekday services showed high numbers of standing passengers.

We must wonder why, if overcrowding were the only motivation for change, services that were not overcrowded or had only, say, 10 standing passengers were replaced with the 450s. Outside peak times, the service is not at all stressed, yet during the week 53% of services are formed of 450 trains. Although I do not make any allegations—I merely offer the House the information—the carriage leasing company, Angel Trains, has confirmed that the 444 is as much as 20% more expensive to lease than the 450.

In the face of repeated lobbying from passengers of South West Trains, the company has held firm to the line that it must increase capacity. It has succeeded in increasing the number of seats. It has not succeeded in increasing the number of places to sit. A seat on which one cannot sit is a seat in name only. South West Trains dismisses criticism of the 450 carriages as mere “comfort” concerns and a simple preference for the 444. Well, quite. The 444s have two plus two seating, tables, arm rests and seats 45 cm wide, with a 4 cm space between them. What’s not to like?

What makes the situation even more frustrating for commuters is that South West Trains has 45 carriage units of 444 carriages. Passenger groups have devised service diagrams that show that a full 444 service could be operated with just over half that number. There is thus no need for passengers to endure the discomfort that at present is their lot. I accept that service programmes are a complex business and changes could have implications for other lines, although my research shows that these would not be detrimental.

The cause of passengers is not helped by the fact that there are no departmental guidelines on comfort. Comfort does not feature in any rail franchise agreements, or for that matter in the recent Reforming Rail Franchising consultation. However, the Department for Transport is alive to the dangers of inadequate provision being foisted upon passengers. The national rail franchise terms state that, excluding additional passenger services,

“the Franchisee shall maintain the composition of the Train Fleet during the Franchise Term, unless the Secretary of State otherwise agrees, such that there are no changes to the Train Fleet, including changes:

(a) to the classes or types;

(b) to the interior configurations; or

(c) which may reduce the journey time capabilities, of any rolling stock vehicles specified in the Train Fleet.”

It is true that franchises might be negotiated with a change of stock in mind, but patently the Department accepts the need to protect passengers. Furthermore, the coalition programme for government states:

“We will grant longer franchises in order to give operators the incentive to invest in the improvements passengers want.”

Such improvements include better services, better stations, longer trains and better rolling stock. The problem is that there is no incentive for train operating companies on mainline routes, as they operate in a protected market, and frequently have a monopoly. Contrary to what some TOCs said in their submissions to the consultation, inter-city lines have less competition than suburban lines. Cars and coaches are simply not viable alternatives, and certainly not if one hopes to work while travelling.

It is with hope and expectation, therefore, that I seize on the Government’s statement in their response to the franchise consultation:

“For intercity services revenue incentives may be sufficient to encourage operators to continue to strive to maintain and improve service quality. However, we may ask bidders to commit to quality improvements which are within their control, such as onboard environment; station environment; customer service and information.”

First, what is the need for better comfort, if not to improve the onboard environment? The Department for Transport should produce guidelines on passenger comfort for each type of railway line, and they should become mandatory minimum requirements in future rail franchise agreements. It should be made plain to franchise holders that failure to meet the guidelines before renewal dates will compromise their suitability to continue as operators.

Secondly, it is within the control of South West Trains to improve its service now. It has the carriages; the rail passenger groups have the service diagrams. If South West Trains contends that it could restore the 444 services to the London-Portsmouth line only by leasing more of them and putting up prices, I would ask why prices did not come down when the cheaper 450s were introduced. I hope that the Minister will prevail on South West Trains to look at how the distribution of carriages could be realigned so that no service is disadvantaged by the improvements to the Portsmouth line. South West Trains and the Department should look at what carriage capacity is available, and open dialogues with other TOCs if necessary.

Thirdly and finally, I would ask that a meeting be convened at which departmental Ministers and officials, Members of Parliament and passengers groups can discuss with South West Trains what must change and how quickly it can be done. People such as David Habershon, Bruce Oliver and John Holland, who have done so much to represent their fellow commuters, and to help me prepare for this debate, should be able to address their concerns directly to SWT executives across the table. Commuters on the London-Portsmouth line pay handsomely for their rail tickets. In return they should be able to travel to our capital for business or pleasure without being in discomfort or running the risk of doing themselves harm. South West Trains does a good job in many respects. It has the power to put right what it has got wrong, and I hope that it will do so in short order.