Batten Disease: Access to Drugs

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Andrew Griffiths

Tuesday 16th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Care (Caroline Dinenage)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg) on securing this important debate on what is a heartbreaking issue, as I am sure you will agree, Mr Speaker. He and other Members have spoken up movingly and with great passion about and on behalf of their constituents, and I am grateful to them for doing so. I understand how vital it is for patients and their families to be able to access new medicines as quickly as possible. This is one of the hardest types of debates that one has to respond to as a Minister, when we can put ourselves in the position of the families up and down the country who are facing such a desperate situation.

I will endeavour to respond as fully as I can to the issues that my hon. Friend and other Members raised, but I should begin by saying, sadly, that I am unfortunately unable to comment on matters relating to the availability of Brineura, a drug used to treat Batten disease, as this is currently subject to an active judicial review procedure.

As we have heard from hon. Members, Batten disease is a terrible condition that progresses rapidly, leading to loss of speech, mobility and vision, progressive dementia and early death. It is a rare genetic disease, and it is estimated that around three to six children in the UK are diagnosed each year, with around 30 to 50 children living with the condition. Current treatment options are limited to symptomatic relief and supportive care. I fully understand how vital any new treatment option could be to the families of children with this rare and devastating condition.

The Government want patients, including those with rare diseases such as Batten disease, to be able to benefit from effective new treatments. It is in the interests of all NHS patients that we have a system in place for making evidence-based—

[Andrew Griffiths]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This important debate is about whether this drug is going to be available for these young children, and you will share my concern that we are not going to get the answers we want because it is supposedly prevented by a judicial review. Can you rule on whether we should be able to have the information we seek in this debate for the parents who are watching?

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. He anticipates me, because his discernment is such that he will have observed me in conversation with the Clerk at the Table. Let me say, for the avoidance of doubt, that the content of the Minister’s reply is, of course, a matter for her, and it is not something with which I would seek to interfere. That is not for me.

However, for the purposes of clarification, I want to make this point. I am not aware that this matter is sub judice, as I have not received prior notification that it is. I am not aware that it is, I have not been informed that it is, and the Clerks have not been informed that it is. If it is not sub judice, nothing whatsoever precludes the Minister from commenting on this case. If it is sub judice, as colleagues will know, it is within the competence —I use that term in the technical sense—of the Chair to waive the sub judice rule, which it would most certainly be my instinct to do.

What the Minister says is a matter for the Minister, but it would not be right, as far as I can tell, to say that it is not possible, in a legal sense, for the Minister to comment on this matter. The Minister is the Minister, and the Minister’s answer on the specifics is sought. If the Minister wishes to proffer that answer, she can do so.

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[Caroline Dinenage]

I am very tempted to do so, but I would like to try to make progress on some of the things I can say, and then we can maybe move on to a more satisfactory conclusion.

[Andrew Griffiths]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

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[Caroline Dinenage]

That is a really good question, and I think that is one reason why NICE is looking again at its systems. It must be possible, because around 80% of new drugs are recommended for NICE approval and approved by NICE. It is clearly possible for new drugs to make it through even when they have not been around for a long enough period to see the very long-term consequences of their impact. It is really important in cases such as this, in which the opportunity—

[Andrew Griffiths]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek your advice, because we have a precedent for a situation that can arise on numerous occasions. In the nine years I have been in the House, I have heard of many debates in which right hon. and hon. Members have brought forward demands for treatments for rare diseases. We call the Minister to the Dispatch Box to answer—to be accountable. If we have a situation, going forward, where the Minister can claim sub judice, on advice from officials—it is not the Minister; she is taking advice from her Department—and be allowed to hide behind that cloak of anonymity and prevent the House from doing its job, which is to establish the facts and find out the truth behind the matter, that clearly prevents the House from being able to do its job.

You would share my concern, Mr Speaker, that that would prevent Members in this House from serving their constituents in a way that they would be expected to do. Therefore, can you ensure that you will go away today and look at this situation and make sure that, if this procedure has gone wrong, Departments are told very clearly that they cannot hide behind sub judice and that they must be candid with this House, regardless of the advice they have been given by officials.

[Mr Speaker]

That is a most helpful point of order from the hon. Gentleman, to which, essentially, the answer is a simple yes. I will happily go away and reflect on how Departments might usefully be advised to proceed in these matters. Beyond that, there are two points. First, as I have been advised, the matter is not sub judice. It has been suggested to me by a very constructive member of the Treasury Bench that advice to the effect that the case might be sub judice was proffered, though not to the particular Clerk whom I have been consulting, but that advice was not judged to be correct. Put simply, as far as we can see, the matter is not sub judice.

Secondly, however, and this is an extremely important point in the context of the specific debate that the hon. Member for North East Somerset has secured, the issue is that of ministerial intervention, and therefore whether or not the case is sub judice—I repeat that I am advised that it is not—the matter of ministerial intervention is manifestly one for Ministers, and it is therefore a matter upon which a Minister from the Bench can comment and would widely be expected to do so. Frankly, this question of the legal status is not germane to the capacity of a Minister to respond to the specifics of the debate. That is the situation.

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[Caroline Dinenage]

NICE now operates two separate programmes for the assessment of new medicines: first, a technology appraisal programme through which NICE assesses the vast majority of new medicines; and secondly, a highly specialised technologies programme that is reserved for the evaluation of very high cost drugs for the treatment of very small numbers of patients suffering from very rare diseases in England who are treated in a handful of centres in the NHS.

Where NICE recommends a treatment for use on the NHS, NHS commissioners are legally required to make funding available so that it can be prescribed to patients. This is reflected in the NHS constitution as a right to NICE-approved treatments. The intention of NICE is to have a system that means that the public can have confidence that the price paid by the NHS is consistent with the improvement in health outcomes that the medicine brings, ensuring fairness and the best possible use of funding for patients and the NHS.

As I said to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell), NICE has recommended around 80% of products it has assessed. Through its important work, many thousands of patients, including patients with rare diseases, have benefited from access to effective new treatments.

It is right that NICE’s processes continue to evolve with developments in science, healthcare and the life sciences sector. That is why it keeps its methods and processes updated through periodic review that includes extensive engagement with stakeholders, including patient representatives, drug manufacturers and clinicians. In this spirit of continuous development, through the 2019 voluntary scheme for branded medicines pricing and access, which was published in December, the Government announced that NICE would be undertaking a review of its methods and processes in 2019-20 for both its technology appraisal and the highly specialised technologies programme.

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank the Minister for the honourable way in which she has played a straight bat in what is a very sticky wicket; I am grateful to her for that. She mentioned that she was prepared to come back and make a statement to the House, for which I think we are all grateful. Would she just confirm whether she intends to make that statement before the House rises for the summer recess?

[Caroline Dinenage]

Yes, I will come back and make that statement before the House rises for the summer recess, with the correct legal recommendations.

The NICE review of its methods and processes has now begun. That will be quite helpful for some hon. Members who are questioning whether those processes are as they should be. Although I do not think it would not be appropriate for me to pre-empt the review by commenting in detail on its scope, I can assure hon. Members that it will be wide-ranging and will be carried out with full consultation with stakeholders.

My hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset spoke about access to the new drug Brineura for his constituent Max. NICE is currently developing recommendations for the NHS on the use of Brineura through its highly specialised technologies programme for the evaluation of drugs for the treatment of patients with very rare diseases. It has not yet published that final guidance. I understand that NHS England and NHS Improvement have been in discussions with the manufacturer of Brineura, BioMarin, for some time to seek a deal that would enable NICE to recommend the drug for use on the NHS, but an agreement has unfortunately not been possible so far. As I said at the beginning, NICE’s assessment of Brineura is potentially going to be subject to legal proceedings.

Let me move on to individual funding requests. Where a treatment is not routinely available on the NHS, including where NICE has not yet made a recommendation on its use, NHS clinicians are able to apply for funding through an individual funding request. This can be done when a clinician believes that their patient is clearly different from other patients with the same condition, or where their patient might benefit from the treatment in a different way from other patients.

In the absence of NICE’s final recommendations on Brineura, I am aware that NHS England and NHS Improvement have recently considered an individual funding request for my hon. Friend’s constituent Max that it has unfortunately been unable to support, because he would not be regarded as an exceptional case to existing policy. I understand how devastating that decision will be for Max, his parents and all those involved. However, if my hon. Friend’s constituents and their clinicians think that the process has not been followed correctly, they can ask for a review of the decision within 28 days. If a patient’s situation changes or more clinical evidence becomes available about the effectiveness of a treatment, they may also submit additional information to be considered and discussed.

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[Caroline Dinenage]

My understanding is that if the manufacturer of this vital drug gets around the table with NICE and suggests a price within a reasonable scale, NICE would be very open to listening. That is my understanding. Certainly, I understand calls from Members across the House for NHS England, NICE and the manufacturer to get around the table to try to find a solution. That seems to me to be the most sensible way forward.

[Andrew Griffiths]

I thank the Minister for giving way again. The language she is using is the same as that we hear in a lot of these debates. She has said that many of these families and young children are receiving the drug on compassionate grounds from the drug company. For a parent whose child is not getting that drug to be told that somebody else’s son or daughter is getting compassion but theirs is not—the Minister is a mother herself, so she will understand this—is like a dagger through the heart. Will she do all she can to ensure that that compassion is extended to all those mums and dads who are looking on tonight?

[Caroline Dinenage]

Of course I will commit to doing everything I can to making sure that all the very valid and easy-to-understand sentiments that have been expressed by Members across the House are sent to all the parties involved in this discussion. I completely share Members’ desire to find a resolution to this and ensure that families get the answers they need. In the meantime, I thank all Members for the part they have played in today’s debate, the questions they have asked and the great interest they have shown in this issue. As I say, I will come back to the House shortly with fuller answers to some of those questions.

Burton Magistrates Court

Debate between Caroline Dinenage and Andrew Griffiths

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Griffiths]

I am sorry that the Minister’s officials are again giving her the wrong information. Her proposal says that my cases will go three ways: to Cannock, to Newcastle-under-Lyme and to Derby. Two thirds of cases will not go to Derby.

[Caroline Dinenage]

I am sure that everything my hon. Friend says will be taken into consideration. We know that the world outside the courts is changing rapidly. We expect to be able to transact all our business online, quickly and efficiently, and at a time that suits. Justice must be accessible, with court users able to transact their court business efficiently at a time that suits them. We have a great opportunity to invest in our courts and to modernise them to meet the challenges of present and future requirements of court users and improve delivery.

In the consultation, we asked for suggestions about providing court services from an alternative local building and all those will be fully evaluated. We also want to change the way in which the public can access the courts. That does not have to take place by attending a conventional court building so we are exploring whether there are opportunities to hold hearings in local buildings. In addition, we have welcomed views on whether to establish video conferencing facilities and whether that would improve access to justice for victims, witnesses and court users. The proposals on the court estate in England and Wales must also be considered in the wider context of our ambitious plans to transform the way in which courts and tribunals operate and deliver services to the public.

As the Justice Secretary has said, reform of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service offers a once-in-a-generation opportunity to create a modern, user-focused and efficient service. Many people encounter our justice system when they are at their most vulnerable, be they victim or witness. We must make better use of technology to provide easier access and a more responsive system with swifter processes and a more proportionate service.

As we know, front-line staff in the courts work very hard to provide a high quality service, but they often work against a backdrop of poor infrastructure and IT systems that are often inefficient, disjointed and based on old technology. We must respect the traditions of our court system, but recognise that court attendance is time consuming and often an inefficient process for everyone involved. A more proportionate approach to court attendance would eliminate wasted time and enhance confidence in the administration of justice. We have a duty to offer more convenient and less intimidating ways for citizens to interact with the justice system, which is what we intend to do while maintaining the authority of the court for serious cases.

We need to invest to deliver those improvements and we will do so with care to ensure that taxpayers are funding investment in a sustainable and efficient system. My hon. Friend knows as well as I do that the Government are facing tough decisions about how we spend limited public funds and we do not shy away from making these tough decisions, but the programme of reform on which the courts and tribunals are embarking is a remarkable opportunity to transform essential public services. It will result in delivery of quicker and fairer access to justice and a courts and tribunals system that better reflects the way the public access and use services today. It is important that we make the right decisions about investment and operate from a court estate that is sustainable and represents value for money.

As my hon. Friend said, the consultation has now closed and we will analyse the responses. He referred to the 2,000 signatures that have been collected in the local area and they will be taken into consideration. The Minister for the Courts and Legal Aid and the Lord Chancellor will consider all the difficult decisions about whether a court should close. As they do so, they will consider all the responses and the points that my hon. Friend has made in the debate today.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the proposed closure of Burton Magistrates’ Court.