European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Debate between Brendan O'Hara and John Lamont

Wednesday 5th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

It is an honour to follow the hon. Member for Caerphilly (Wayne David).

Since the EU referendum result in 2016, we have all been grappling with the result and what it means for our constituents and our country, and with how we should best respond in the interests of our country. I believe the public, rightly, are tired of Brexit. For many, it has become an issue that is far too abstract, legalistic and confusing. Frankly, they want us to get on with it, but our constituents are relying on us to get it right. This debate and vote may be one of the most important that right hon. and hon. Members in this place will have to make a decision on. Probably it is one of the most important votes, if not the most important vote, that we will cast in our parliamentary careers.

Almost everyone I have spoken to, whether or not they support this deal, has a huge amount of respect for the Prime Minister and admiration for the job that she is doing. Negotiating a Brexit deal with the European Union was an almost impossible job. I have never doubted the Prime Minister’s desire to achieve the best for our country, and she has poured her heart and soul into every aspect of these negotiations. My admiration for our Prime Minister is making this decision for me all the more difficult. It goes without saying that I am loyal to this Government and to this Prime Minister. Our country is undoubtedly better served by this Government than by any alternative. After 10 years in the Scottish Parliament and 18 months here, I understand the significance of even contemplating voting against my Government and colleagues. However, my job here is also to consider the national interests and those of my constituents. That is why I am listening carefully to contributions from all parts of the House during the course of this debate, and particularly those of Ministers in reaction to some of the concerns that colleagues, especially those on the Conservative Benches, have raised.

Part of my decision-making process has been considering what happens if Parliament rejects this agreement. We have been told it is this deal, no deal or Brexit could be stopped. The default position for this process is clear: we leave the EU at 11 pm on 29 March next year with no deal. That is due to both the EU treaty and the European Union (Withdrawal) Act which, when it was passed earlier this year, was amended to include the date and time of exit. In my view, it is regrettable that there has not been greater clarity from the Government about what will happen in the event, as seems increasingly likely, that this place does not give its support to the withdrawal agreement. We are being asked to support this agreement without any proper understanding of the alternatives. We are in effect balancing risks as part of our decision-making process—the risks associated with this agreement as opposed to the risks of the unknown.

Turning to the withdrawal agreement itself, the fishing industry along the Berwickshire coast in my constituency has been decimated in recent years. I know that many of my local fishermen and women are looking forward to a life outside the common fisheries policy. While I have been reassured by the words from the Prime Minister, I am less comforted by the views expressed by other European leaders, notwithstanding the fact that fishing could still be sacrificed as part of the trade deal negotiations. I am happy to accept the words of our Prime Minister and her commitment to Scotland’s fisheries, but my fear is that the precise arrangements will be decided at some point in the future. No Government can bind their successors, so no promise now will necessarily have any effect in the future.

As a Unionist, I also have serious concerns about the provisions for Northern Ireland, given that there will be at least a risk of Northern Ireland being treated substantially differently from the rest of the United Kingdom. That would certainly be contrary to the articles of Union, as I understand them. The main nationalist parties in Northern Ireland have signed up to the agreement. However, both the Ulster Unionist party and the Democratic Unionist party have said that they are completely opposed to it. That causes me a serious problem. Given the troubled history in Ireland, any constitutional change needs to have the support of both communities in Northern Ireland. Some say that the Unionists in Northern Ireland need to take a pragmatic approach and that they need to compromise. I would suggest that that fundamentally misunderstands Unionism in Northern Ireland. I have every sympathy with those in this place who represent Unionism in Northern Ireland, who have expressed concerns about the potential impact of the agreement on the constitutional status of Northern Ireland within the United Kingdom.

My fundamental concern is that so much of the EU withdrawal agreement is an agreement to agree something further down the line. The can is being kicked further down the road. As someone who studied law at Glasgow University and trained and worked at Freshfields along the road from here, one of my lasting memories from law school and from those teaching me how to draft legal documents is the danger of drafting something that could be construed as an agreement to agree. Why is that a problem? My hon. Friend the Member for East Surrey (Mr Gyimah) touched on some of the political aspects, but the consequence is that agreements to agree lack sufficient certainty to constitute a legally enforceable commitment.

There have been many reassuring words about the high standard imposed by the “best endeavours” commitment in the withdrawal agreement, but the reality is that it is meaningless if the obligation itself lacks certainty. The withdrawal agreement was supposed to be a bridge to a permanent relationship with the EU, but the danger is that it will become the norm. We are putting off so many of the outstanding decisions for a later date.

I have wrestled with this for many hours and have lost much sleep over the past few weeks. I have spoken to many businesses and residents in my constituency. I am here to represent their views as their Member of Parliament. I am trying to reconcile my deep misgivings about the agreement with my loyalty to the Prime Minister and the Government. It is not easy. In fact, it is proving to be probably the hardest decision of my political life. I have until Tuesday to decide what I am going to do, and I am going to carefully judge what—[Interruption.] Perhaps SNP Members could show me some respect rather than mocking my decision-making process—I am wrestling with a very difficult decision on behalf of my constituents and my country.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

We have heard so much from the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues about threatening to resign if Northern Ireland is treated any differently from anywhere else in the United Kingdom. His own Attorney General’s legal advice said it will be treated as a third country, but and he is still wrestling with it. It is patently clear. Have the courage of your convictions and vote this down. It is bad for Scotland, and it will be bad for the rest of the UK.

[John Lamont]

I have not threated to resign from anything. I have just reinforced the point that I am here to represent my constituents, many of whom have concerns about the withdrawal agreement. I am here, as somebody sitting on the Government Benches, to express such concerns and misgivings, and to try as honestly as I possibly can to articulate to the House, and hopefully to my constituents, the thought process I am going through. That will take as long as I need. I will certainly not be intimidated or bullied by SNP Members to make that decision any more quickly. I will take my time, and on Tuesday I will cast my vote for what I think is in the national interest and in the interests of my constituents.

RBS Closures (Argyll and Bute)

Debate between Brendan O'Hara and John Lamont

Wednesday 24th January 2018 Westminster Hall

[Brendan O'Hara]

My hon. Friend makes a very powerful case. Like the Royal Bank of Scotland at the beginning, the UK Government have underestimated the sense of anger within our rural communities. We must keep up the pressure on the UK Government to act, and act swiftly.

[John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is making a very powerful case, much of which I agree with. In my constituency, I am losing six bank branches. I suspect the anger in my communities is equal to what he is experiencing in Argyll and Bute. Does he share my concerns that the bank is putting too much additional pressure on the post office network, which I do not think has the capacity to deal with that extra custom? Post Office Ltd is saying one thing about what the network can deliver, and post office operators are saying something very different.

[Brendan O'Hara]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The idea that the post office network in our rural communities can somehow pick up the slack on this is nonsensical. It is an absolute fantasy and it will not work.

Without any consultation whatever, RBS has decided that people in Campbeltown who wish to continue banking with it must now endure a 175-mile round trip to Oban. Alternatively, they could drive an hour to Claonaig, take a 30-minute ferry to Lochranza on Arran and drive over the hills for 40 minutes to bank at the branch in Brodick. RBS customers on the Isle of Bute, in order to remain RBS customers, will be expected to take a ferry to the mainland, get off at Wemyss Bay and drive or get a bus to Largs. No matter which way one looks at it, a visit to the nearest branch of RBS for customers in Campbeltown and Bute will be a day out of their lives.

Worse still is the position of the people of Inveraray. The closure of the RBS branch in Inveraray, despite previous assurances that RBS would not close the last bank in a town, means that there will be absolutely no banking facilities in that town at all. It borders on the unbelievable that a town such as Inveraray, with a booming tourist industry and three good-size hotels, and boasting numerous cafés, bars, restaurants and high-quality clothing outlets—a town that has an estate and a castle that is a magnet for tourists—will be left without a single bank. The Inveraray-based author and journalist, Marian Pallister, who launched her own online petition against the closures, was spot on when she said:

“The Inveraray branch is used by businesses, individuals and charities throughout Mid Argyll. Online banking is not a valid alternative in many rural areas and now businesses and charities will have to make a 75-mile round trip to the nearest RBS branch. Inveraray is a tourist hub and while this closure disadvantages local people, it is a death sentence for the local tourist industry”.

Rural Communities in Scotland: Broadband

Debate between Brendan O'Hara and John Lamont

Wednesday 22nd November 2017 Westminster Hall

[John Lamont]

It is telling that only three nationalist Members are here this morning. That shows what their priorities are. While we are standing up for our constituents, who want better broadband, the nationalists are perhaps focused on other things.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

On the point that the hon. Member for Angus (Kirstene Hair) made, I will not embarrass myself or my party by asking where the Secretary of State is, because we would not expect him to attend such a debate. Can I take the hon. Gentleman back a few minutes? We all have localised problems with broadband and BT roll-out, but will he confirm that he said that he wants the Scottish Government stripped of their powers over broadband roll-out?

[John Lamont]

rose—

[John Lamont]

I am more than happy to confirm the point. The Scottish Government and Digital Scotland have failed. That is also the view of many of my constituents. The Scottish Government have had their chance and it is time for—

[Brendan O'Hara]

Stripped of their powers?

[Mr George Howarth (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Gentleman is a spokesman for his party. I realise he is very exercised about what Mr Lamont is saying in his speech, but he really should not be making comments from a sedentary position.

[John Lamont]

Thank you, Mr Howarth. Having spent 10 years in the Scottish Parliament, I am well used to listening to the SNP shouting from the sidelines, but not actually delivering anything for Scotland. Thankfully, we now have 13 Scottish Conservative and Unionist Members of Parliament, who are actually here to do a job, namely getting a better deal for our constituents, whether it be on broadband or any other policy area, unlike my nationalist friends, who are determined to take Scotland out of the United Kingdom and ignore every other policy area in this place.

[Brendan O'Hara]

rose—

[John Lamont]

I want to make some progress.

I have been critical of Digital Scotland and the Scottish Government for their failures to deliver for Scotland a broadband network fit for the current age. However, BT and Openreach are not without blame. Following negotiations and demands from Ofcom, Openreach is now a legally separate entity, but it is still wholly owned by BT’s parent holding company, BT Group plc. The situation we find ourselves in, with the digital divide between urban and rural, has been created by historical decisions made by BT. Had BT invested in our network in the way that I believe it should have, we would not be facing these challenges today. It has picked off the low-hanging fruit in broadband roll-out, focusing more on cities and commercially viable areas. I suggest that it has ignored the harder-to-get residents and communities because it knew it would cost too much. Too many communities have been forced to look at self-help options to find solutions for their poor broadband connections when Openreach has refused to help. My constituents are innovative and smart, but many have struggled with the bureaucracy of the schemes and the cost involved.

Ofcom’s December 2016 report, “Connected Nations”, which has been referred to, describes the urban-rural divide well. While 89% of premises in the United Kingdom can receive superfast broadband, there are 1.4 million premises that cannot get download speeds greater than 10 megabits per second. Those are disproportionately in rural areas, and the problem is particularly bad in Scotland.

[John Lamont]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, which demonstrates yet again the centralising tendencies of the nationalist Government in Edinburgh and their focus on the central belt, rather than devolving powers to the communities that we all represent.

The “Connected Nations” report highlights that only 46% of premises in rural Scotland can access superfast broadband, compared with 62% of rural premises in England. It is those premises that will benefit from the universal service obligation. I fully support the universal service obligation contained in the Digital Economy Act 2017, but I would argue that the minimum speed should be higher than 10 megabits per second, as originally suggested. I know that the Minister is considering a proposal by BT to deliver the USO outside the 2017 Act, which BT says it will be able to deliver quicker. However, I believe that BT has had its chance to deliver and has failed. The 2016 report from the British Infrastructure Group highlighted that in 2009 BT promised that 2.5 million homes would be connected to ultrafast fibre to premises services by 2012, which was 25% of the country, yet by September 2015 BT had managed to reach about 0.7% of homes.

Lastly on BT, residents in many rural communities feel angry—frankly, I share their anger—when Openreach tells them that it is not commercially viable to invest in their broadband connections, and yet they read in the press about BT splashing out £1.2 billion on the rights to televise the champions league. No, BT and Openreach have had their chance and they have failed to deliver for rural Scotland.

I suspect we will hear similar experiences from other Members, so I will draw my remarks to a conclusion. Ofcom’s “Connected Nations” report describes the situation well when it states:

“Fast, reliable communications enable businesses to generate prosperity and employment, and our countries to compete. They empower every citizen to take a full part in society and benefit from life’s opportunities. Communications also save lives, bind families and friends together, and keep us entertained.”

We need to act to bridge the broadband gap between urban and rural Scotland—the broadband haves and the broadband have-nots.

[Brendan O'Hara]

As the hon. Gentleman is bringing his remarks to a close, could I return to the question I asked a couple of moments ago, which he did not answer? He said that he wanted the Scottish Government stripped of its powers. Is that what he was saying?

[John Lamont]

I have been absolutely clear. The UK Government have tasked the Scottish Government to deliver superfast broadband in Scotland. The SNP Scottish Government have failed. These powers should be taken away and given to local authorities—Scottish Borders Council, Moray Council, Dumfries and Galloway Council; rural councils that understand what the local communities need—not this central-belt biased SNP Government in Edinburgh who are determined to have a second independence referendum while everything else gets ignored.

I ask the Minister to consider addressing the following points in his remarks. First, to confirm the point I made earlier to the nationalist Members, will the UK Government look at ensuring that local authorities in Scotland have a much greater role in the delivery of broadband, rather than the centralised model currently adopted by the SNP Scottish Government? Secondly, will the Government consider a higher level of universal service obligation to ensure that rural communities are future-proofed as digital technology continues to evolve? Lastly, I look forward to welcoming the Minister to my constituency in the near future so that he can hear at first hand the very challenging experiences that many of my constituents in the Scottish Borders have to deal with in terms of access to broadband.