Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Wednesday 27th April 2022 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I understand the point that the right hon. Gentleman is making. We find ourselves in a ridiculous situation where the EU’s position on implementing the protocol means that the very document that was designed to help to protect the Belfast/Good Friday agreement is the thing that is putting it most at risk. We recognise that, and we are very clear that that needs to be resolved.

As I say, we take nothing off the table. We want to get an agreement with the EU, and we want them to recognise the challenges that this is creating for businesses and communities in Northern Ireland. We are clear that we need to, and we will, resolve this issue. If we cannot do so by agreement, we will have to do what is right for the people of the United Kingdom and, obviously, the people of Northern Ireland.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of the impact of the “Levelling Up the United Kingdom” White Paper on communities in Northern Ireland.

Ballymurphy Inquest Findings

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Thursday 13th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I think the outline of the right hon. Lady’s question goes to the core point that a number of Members and I have already made: that Ballymurphy is a clear, tragic example of how it has taken far too long to get information for those families. We need to find a process that ensures that families can get information much more quickly, while people are still with us as well, as she outlined. As regards prosecutions, that is a matter for the Public Prosecution Service for Northern Ireland, and we have seen the outcome of some prosecutions it had just the other week. It is not a matter for the Government but for the independent prosecution service.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con) [V]]

I pay tribute to the Secretary of State for the tone he struck in his statement. These families have endured an exceptionally long campaign in their search for answers. Does my right hon. Friend agree that this shows that the current system to deal with the legacy of the troubles on all sides in Northern Ireland has failed and that the drawn-out, expensive court proceedings for veterans, victims and families are flawed and need to be reviewed?

[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend makes an important point. As we have seen, tragically, in the recent past as well as this week, the current system has simply not been working for anybody. It is failing to bring satisfactory, speedy or timely outcomes for families, leaving Northern Ireland with unanswered questions for families within it. That leaves society hamstrung, effectively, by its past. That is why, as a Government, we are committed to finding a way forward that will allow individuals and families who want information to seek and receive those answers about what happened during the troubles with far less delay and distress. We have a duty to the victims and the families in Northern Ireland as a whole to deliver on that.

Northern Ireland

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Tuesday 13th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

I certainly agree with and appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s remarks in the first part of his statement.

The hon. Gentleman spent a fair part of his question referring to the protocol. We have to be very cautious when talking about the intentions, issues and views people have about the Northern Ireland protocol. As valid as they may be, they do not—it should never be argued that they do—in any way legitimise what we saw the other week. As others have said, it is right that we work through any disagreement in a political and democratic way. We also have to be very wary of the simplicity of thinking that what happened the other week was over one particular issue. As I think I outlined, and as the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Louise Haigh) outlined, it was a multifaceted set of issues.

I recognise the issues that are there from the outworking on the protocol as we have seen it in the first part of this year. We are committed to wanting to deal with that. We are very clear that Northern Ireland is an integral part of the UK and an integral part of the UK customs territory. The protocol was put in place primarily because the EU has a clear focus on protecting its single market. Our focus is on ensuring that the Belfast Good Friday agreement is respected in all of its strands, and that includes east-west. That is why we are very clear that while we want to ensure that goods moving into the EU through the Republic of Ireland are properly dealt with, goods that are moving from Northern Ireland to Great Britain are unfettered, as they are, and goods moving from Great Britain into Northern Ireland can do so freely and flexibly in a pragmatic approach.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con) [V]]

I associate myself with the preceding comments made about the sad passing of our friend and colleague Dame Cheryl Gillan. I also associate myself with the support expressed for the Police Service of Northern Ireland and those affected in the troubles in recent days. In view of the serious events in Northern Ireland and the underlying causes, does my right hon. Friend agree that there is a need for the European Union, the Republic of Ireland and the UK to be pragmatic and practical in coming to an agreement on the Northern Ireland protocol? Furthermore, does the Secretary of State believe that the European Union fully understood the potential implications and risks, when it invoked article 16 of that protocol?

[Brandon Lewis]

I hope you will excuse me, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I join my right hon. Friend in his comments about the late Cheryl Gillan. This is the first chance I have had at the Dispatch Box to say that she became a very, very good friend to me over a period a short while ago, as I think you know full well, Mr Deputy Speaker, and she will be very, very sorely missed by all.

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about this situation, as I said earlier. I am encouraging our friends and colleagues in the European Union, particularly Maroš Šefčovič as vice-president, and his team, to take the opportunity, as restrictions allow—whether it is virtually at the moment or, as restrictions ease, by being present in Northern Ireland—to understand the implications of the outworking of the protocol, including the practical supply line issues that we took action on recently, and also to understand the real issue of identity that the loyalist-Unionist community feel. The outworking of the protocol affects everybody in Northern Ireland. It is not a constitutional issue, in that sense. Whatever part of the community somebody is from, some of the outworkings for consumers and businesses have an impact. The issue of identity for Unionist and loyalist people in Northern Ireland is very real, and there is no doubt that that was intensified after the action the EU took around article 16. While the EU recognises that that was a mistake, it is important that it fully takes the time to understand the long-term implications of it and why it is so important that we work together to find pragmatic, proper solutions.

Northern Ireland Protocol: UK Legal Obligations

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Tuesday 8th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis]

The purpose of the clauses we will be putting into the UK internal market Bill is to ensure that we continue to have good, free-flowing trade across the whole of the United Kingdom, including for Northern Ireland—I have mentioned the issue of unfettered access before. I hope that when the hon. Gentleman sees the clauses in the Bill that we will publish and introduce tomorrow he will see that that is a positive and sensible step.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

What reassurance can my right hon. Friend give that the UK internal market Bill will provide the certainty needed in Northern Ireland to ensure that it remains within the UK customs territory, and that there is no reason whatsoever that the negotiations should be detracted from or undermined by such an Act?

[Brandon Lewis]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. The clauses we will put into the Bill are very clear about ensuring Northern Ireland’s place within the United Kingdom customs territory and single market. The EU has recognised that that is important, and it is a key thing that we will be delivering. There is respect for that point. Acting in good faith by both parties will, I am sure, bring us to a good and sensible conclusion to the negotiations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Wednesday 2nd September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

What recent discussions he has had with Cabinet colleagues on the effect on the Northern Ireland economy of the UK leaving the EU.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

What assessment he has made of the potential benefits to the Northern Ireland economy of the proposals set out in the Government’s July 2020 UK internal market White Paper.

[The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Brandon Lewis)]

By the end of this year, the process of transition to our new relationship with the EU will be completed. I and colleagues across the Cabinet are determined to ensure that Northern Ireland benefits fully from the opportunities that that will bring.

[Brandon Lewis]

As we did with the guidance that we outlined just before the House broke for the summer recess, we have done it in conjunction with our partners in businesses across Northern Ireland through the business engagement forum that we have put together. We are consulting with businesses about what they need to live on the protocol, and that protocol does give confidence to businesses about what will be in place next year.

[Alun Cairns]

Does my right hon. Friend recognise that the UK internal market is the cornerstone of simplicity in terms of uncertainty over attracting investment to all parts of the United Kingdom, and any detractors from the Government’s plan and policy to maintain the integrity of the UK internal market would be undermining the potential investment in their community.

[Brandon Lewis]

Absolutely right. My right hon. Friend makes a hugely important point. The UK internal market Bill will outline that integral structure of the United Kingdom as one customs union and one single market, which will give confidence to businesses and investors to the benefit of all our economies.

Future Mobile Competition

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Wednesday 14th March 2012 Westminster Hall

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Gray, and I am grateful for the guidance that you have offered.

What we are debating is extremely important to the whole United Kingdom, to the communication links in our constituencies and to the economy in general, and we are considering the future of the new generation of mobile communications. From the outset, I want to pay tribute to the Minister and the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport for the priority given and the commitment shown to the subject and for how they and Ofcom have reacted to the demands of the House and of the wider marketplace.

The new generation of mobile communications brings fantastic opportunities for use and management of data to benefit business, the public sector and lifestyle and for great efficiencies in ways that we can only imagine. I do not want to labour such points today, however, because I want to focus on some of the technical issues in the latest Ofcom consultation.

The UK has an extremely competitive mobile communication market, which has benefited the economy hugely and resulted in mobile communication prices that are among the lowest in Europe. Ofcom originally consulted on the 800 MHz and 2.6 GHz spectrum allocation and auction process last March. At the time, its proposal to require a 95% population coverage obligation caused considerable concern in Parliament. During an exceptionally well attended debate in the main Chamber, many Members called for an increase to a 98% population obligation.

I am delighted that Ofcom responded positively and revised its preferred options in the new consultation to include a 98% coverage obligation, which shows a significant commitment to areas that were left behind following the 3G auction. Rural areas in Wales, England, Scotland and parts of Northern Ireland suffered under those arrangements.

[Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important debate, although it is a shame that no one from the Opposition is present. Does he agree that the opportunity is hugely important for rural areas, because of the economic benefits provided to places that are otherwise remote and lacking in infrastructure?

[Alun Cairns]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for underlining such a valid point. The launch of 4G mobile communications will be the last opportunity for a valuable area of the spectrum to be used, auctioned and marketed to benefit the whole economy. Ofcom and the Minister have reacted to the demands of my hon. Friend and many of our colleagues. Let us compare that reaction with the 3G launch administered by Ofcom under the previous Administration and the benefits for areas such as Wales. Despite an auction that netted £22.5 billion, Wales has been left with only 79% 3G coverage, against 98% coverage in England. The 2G coverage in Wales remains at 89%, compared with 99% in England. We might have expected the previous Government to invest some of that fantastic 3G windfall into some of the not-spots, along the lines now being followed for 4G by the Minister and the Secretary of State.

Even within the 98% 4G option, Ofcom presents two main alternatives, the first of which is to set the higher but specific population coverage obligation to include the outcomes of the Government’s mobile infrastructure project. The second option is to specify a coverage obligation by reference to the existing 2G network in combination, plus the additional mobile voice coverage added through the Government’s MIP. Strictly speaking, the second model risks not reaching the exact 98% population coverage, but it gives the opportunity to go well beyond that, dependent on the MIP roll-out and its nature and form.

I therefore support the second option, with its greater opportunity, but ask that Broadband Delivery UK consult actively in and outside Parliament on how best to use the resources that the Minister and Secretary of State have made available. I ask BDUK to pay particular attention to the sort of data on Wales that I mentioned as a result of the deficiencies of the 3G auction.

A further significant difference between the two Ofcom consultations relates to the breakdown and split of the spectrum and the proposals to guarantee national wholesale competition on the current scale. That is of fundamental importance to maintaining the strong competition and benefits thereof that I mentioned earlier. We need to remember that the 800 MHz spectrum is the most desirable to all operators. It allows the best coverage possible both in and outdoors. In simple terms, it travels further and penetrates buildings much more effectively than higher ends of the spectrum.

The March 2011 consultation guaranteed such provision for two operators, partly because Telefonica and Vodafone currently operate on the 900 MHz spectrum, which holds similar properties to the 800 MHz level. The auction was to be split into portfolios, starting at a pair of 5 MHz blocks. Some believed that such a level offered insufficient capacity and others objected to two operators gaining an absolute right to the 800 MHz spectrum. Responses to the consultation led to changes, by removing the preserved rights for two operators and increasing the portfolios to blocks of a minimum of 10 MHz.

The basis of that change is significant, because Ofcom revised its opinion on the interpretation of the reach of the 800 MHz spectrum, by comparison with that of the 1,800 MHz spectrum. At the outset, it believed that operators with a large amount of low-frequency spectrum would have an “unmatchable competitive advantage”, but the latest consultation shows that its position has changed and it now believes that low-frequency spectrum is not a necessity for all operators—if an operator had sufficient 1800 MHz spectrum, it would still be able to compete.

Ofcom now believes that an operator can compete with others operating at a lower frequency, possibly with a price trade-off in compensation for reduced indoor coverage. That is a respectable argument, but not one that I accept. I do not think that it is practical or realistic for consumers to differentiate in such a way, even if the technological claims are robust. There is no effective way, other than experience, in which even an informed consumer will be able to assess the quality of indoor coverage of a service provider.

Contract tie-ins range between one year and two years, so switching provider in the short term is not an option, and coverage and quality could also change within that period because of further investment in additional masts, so confusing the situation further. It could be argued that that was the position when each generation of mobile communication was auctioned and rolled out. At such times, however, the markets were developing and people were prepared to compromise in the short term. Even after the 3G auction, Hutchison used that business model to gain market share, but now that the market has matured, all operators compete on similar terms.

Intense competition would not exist over the longer term in a mature market without the availability of 800 MHz or any further spectrum auction to sustain market interest, and the whole intention of the policy to maintain four credible national mobile operators in competition would be undermined. Over the longer term, the operator without 800 MHz or 900 MHz would walk away or be subject to a takeover by one that had the desired spectrum.

I therefore urge Ofcom and the Minister to consider splitting the auction portfolios, so that four operators have the opportunity to secure low-frequency spectrum. That is less prescriptive than the first consultation, but each operator, including the possibility of a new entrant, must have the opportunity. There are only three pairs of 10 MHz blocks, and my proposal could mean splitting to up to six pairs of 5 MHz options with appropriate guarantees, which is similar but not identical to what was offered in the first consultation. That would deliver long-term sustainable competition, protecting the consumer in the best way, rather than by regulation at a later stage.

Finally, I want to turn to data roaming. Charges by all operators at the moment are wholly unacceptable, with monthly bills running into possibly hundreds of pounds for people travelling in Europe or north America. The European Commission recently proposed a cap of €100 per gigabyte, which could be multiplied by five to reach a retail price of up to €500 per gigabyte, equating to £420 per gig. Clearly, that is far too high and undesirable for individuals and businesses.

The European Parliament recently voted to halve the wholesale cap to €50 per gig, which is encouraging, but I would ask the European Council to move still further. Most infrastructure spend has already been made. By comparison, UK consumers pay £10 per gig within the UK, and even after reform, data roaming could still cost £164 per gigabyte at the reduced level by 2014. Clearly, it is necessary radically to reduce roaming prices. Lower wholesale rates drive market competition and allow operators to develop lower cost propositions. The regulations will be finalised in June, and I ask the Minister to respond to these calls in the same way that he and Ofcom responded so positively to the shift from the 95% coverage obligation in the 4G auction to the 98% coverage obligation.

I will bring my remarks to a close by emphasising the priority that the Government and the Minister have given to such an important policy. We are in the last-chance saloon in marketing the new generation of mobile communications strongly, effectively and efficiently to gain and maintain the right level of competition. There is a threat that some operators may pursue challenges through the courts, but I hope that an arrangement can be delivered on securing the right level of competition, so that all may be reassured, but with ultimate choice to the consumer, while driving prices down in a similar but not identical way to that in which the 3G auction was used.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Brandon Lewis and Alun Cairns

Thursday 2nd February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con)]

4. What recent progress he has made on the red tape challenge.

[Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)]

5. What recent progress he has made on the red tape challenge.