Brandon Lewis
Main Page: Brandon Lewis (Conservative - Great Yarmouth)(8 years, 12 months ago)
Public Bill CommitteesIn line with this morning’s decision, Members may remove their jackets if they wish to do so. Minister, do you want to continue with your summary, or do you want others to be called?
To help move things along, I am happy for the Question to be put.
I triggered this debate in order to ask the Minister to dwell on the concern that if permission is given in principle, even just for self-build designated slots, there is a risk of pushing up the price of that land—the acquisition of land is currently one of the biggest deterrents to broadening the self-build sector. The Minister gave an interesting justification for clause 9 standing part of the Bill, much of which I am sure is perfectly reasonable, but he did not answer the particular concern I raised. I would be grateful if he might dwell on that point and come back to me.
I dealt with that issue in the long conversation we had this morning, and I made a point about the basics of supply and demand. I will go a little further to help the hon. Gentleman by saying that planning permission in principle is on land that is identified on a brownfield register or in a potential neighbourhood or local plan. The land is therefore already potentially designated for housing. The argument that planning in principle has any further effect on the value of the land is completely false.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 9 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 10
Exemption from duty
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 10 inserts a new section into the Self-build and Custom Housebuilding Act 2015 enabling relevant authorities to apply to the Secretary of State for an exemption from the duty to grant permission for sufficient land to match demand. There are some areas where the demand for self-build and custom housebuilding may far outstrip land supply. To ensure that we continue to protect the environment and build only in a sustainable way, we must be able to exempt relevant authorities that, with the best will in the world, are simply unable to grant permission for sufficient land to meet demand.
The detail will be set out in regulations, but the intention is that where demand on the register is a significant proportion of the land available for housing, as set out in the five-year land supply, the authority may apply to the Secretary of State for an exemption. Authorities that are exempt from the duty to grant permission for serviced land to match demand must still, of course, have regard to the demands on their registers when carrying out their housing, planning, regeneration and land disposal functions.
I will be brief. I fully understand the need to be able to have exemptions in some circumstances. The law will need to take account of very different circumstances in different local authorities with very different levels of land supply and demand. The City of London comes to mind as an obvious example, although there will be other intensely urban areas where this is also an issue. Can the Minister give an assurance that this will be a tight test and that not only will the requirement for authorities to have regard to their obligations still obtain, but it will be within the Secretary of State’s power under the proposed regulations to make the granting of an exemption to a local authority conditional upon it satisfying certain conditions that the Secretary of State might lay down, such as a partnership with another local authority that has more land?
This is a slightly different example, but it is relevant. The City of London sponsors an academy in the London Borough of Southwark. The City, being a very small borough, does not have enough students for a high school of that kind, but it sends some of its students to the high school on land supplied by Southwark. Does the Minister think there is room for that kind of partnership and that conditions could be imposed on local authorities before the Secretary of State agrees to make an exemption?
I have a brief question for the Minister. Does he have any idea of how many local authorities are likely to be exempt and on what grounds? That would help us to make some sense of the clause.
My hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk made a good point, and we will ensure that we take his comments forward when drawing up the regulations. When an authority finds itself exempt and the regulations detail an exemption process, we will require it to demonstrate how, if an exemption is granted, it will continue to support those on its register. That could be satisfied by it working in partnership with neighbouring or nearby authorities in the way my hon. Friend outlines.
Obviously, as it is an exemption policy, I would not want to prejudge who might or might not be looking for an exemption. I appreciate that there will be challenges in some areas, as the hon. Lady pointed out, and that places such as London might struggle to meet demand for self-build, as was pointed out by the hon. Member for Harrow West, who is not in his place at the moment. That is why we have included a power for the Secretary of State to make regulations specifying the circumstances in which an authority may apply for an exemption when the time comes.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 10 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 11
Further and consequential amendments
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 11 makes further and consequential amendments to the Self-build and Custom Housebuilding Act 2015. In particular, it creates an additional power so that regulations may provide that the relevant authorities can set their own conditions of eligibility. These are expected to be restricted to a local connection test and, as we outlined and discussed, a financial solvency test.
The clause also provides for regulations to enable the register to have two parts. The second part would apply to anyone who had applied to be registered but failed to meet specified conditions of eligibility. We expect this to be used so that anyone who fails a local area connection test when an authority has chosen to apply one must be entered in the second part of the register.
Entries in the second part of the register would not count as demand when determining the number of service plots that a relevant authority must permit. However, authorities would have to have regard to those entries when undertaking their planning, housing, regeneration and land disposal functions, ensuring that, for example, when an authority has introduced a local connection test, people can still join part of the register, allowing someone who currently lives in the area where land for development is limited also to register in nearby areas where land might be more widely available—that touches on the point my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk made—even when those areas have their own local connection test.
The clause also enables the Secretary of State to provide in regulations that local authorities can recover fees connected with their duty to provide sufficient suitable development permissions. Regulations may also stipulate the circumstances in which no fee is payable. For example, when making these regulations, we may consider whether it is appropriate to charge those people on the second part of the register. It is expected that these fees will be set at a level that broadly reflects the costs incurred by the authority when undertaking its duties under the 2015 Act.
I crave your indulgence, Sir Alan, for just a moment longer. I agree with the Minister. Plainly, there must be some criteria for eligibility and a sensible approach to the recovery of fees. There must indeed be a local area test and it would be sensible if a local authority could exclude people from the operative part of the register if they did not meet the local area test.
However, I seek the Minister’s assurance on a specific point. The test will be applied relatively narrowly so as not to exclude people. I referred in the oral evidence session to the Community Self Build Agency website, and I will quote from it now because it is totally relevant. It states:
“I was encouraged by the local council to apply for the CSBA Scheme, I rang them and said: ‘I am disabled, unemployed, on benefits and I know nothing of building.’ They said: ‘You fit all the criteria!’ I have never looked back.”
I would not want this exclusion and the ability to be placed on the second part of the register to exclude people who, unaided and not as part of a scheme, might not be eligible or might not meet the financial conditions but who, if they were part of a sponsored scheme, might indeed meet the conditions of eligibility.
It has been proved that the most dispossessed and downtrodden, who are told that they cannot have any hand in their own future and cannot help themselves, can do so with a bit of help, and they should not be excluded from the operative part of the register. What assurance can the Minister offer that the eligibility criteria will not be used in a way that reduces opportunity to take part in schemes where jointly the eligibility criteria could be met?
Areas that are more generally exempt must still have regard in the register that has been carried out to general housing, planning and local disposal issues.
My hon. Friend makes a more focused point, with which I have sympathy. As we go forward and develop the regulations, local authorities will be encouraged to notify people on both parts of the register of opportunities to purchase sites suitable for self-build and custom build. That will be set out in guidance. There will be opportunities through regulation and guidance to ensure that we cover all those opportunities.
We want to ensure that custom and self-build land is available for everybody who is eligible and potentially could develop their home in that way. I will take my hon. Friend’s points on board as we go through the regulations and guidance. I hope that reassures him that we will do everything we can to ensure that everybody has the chance to take forward the revolution that he has inspired in self-build and custom house building.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 11 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 12
Introduction to this Part
I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 12, page 8, line 17, leave out “letting” and insert “property”.
Part 2 of the Bill contains various references to rogue landlords and letting agents. NC8 has the effect of extending the Part to property managers, whether or not they are landlords or letting agents. As a result the references to rogue landlords and letting agents need to be changed to refer to rogue landlords and “property agents”, a term that is defined by amendment 48 to mean letting agents and property managers.
That is not really a matter for the Chair. I can tell the hon. Lady that such a programme agreement, which is entered into by all parties subject to the membership of the Committee, is advisory, because ultimately, how the Committee operates is a matter for the Committee. However, when there is conflict with the rules of laying motions and amendments related to other matters that need to be heard, it gives you the opportunity to make a direct appeal elsewhere, beyond this Committee, via the normal channels, which you are aware of, to the Chairman of Ways and Means. It is not actually a matter for the Chair. The Chairman of Ways and Means may consider whether it is a valid request, whether extra time should be found, and whether the time should be amended accordingly.
Can we move on?
Further to that point of order, Sir Alan. It is important to respond to the hon. Lady’s point of order, because it does not give a clear picture. We need to be very clear about this: we are very happy, and I am very keen, to see proper debate and scrutiny of the Bill, which is why we are happy to take the time to go through this properly. There are no knives, and, as far as I understand it, we even gave flexibility and moved on from the original agreement, as we did on Thursday—when we spent a whole session of an hour and a half discussing one line with no votes, if I remember it correctly—and I even suggested to the hon. Lady then that we would be willing to accept late amendments in order to facilitate helping the Opposition. So I think the hon. Lady is being very disingenuous, to be blunt, in making that point. It is important that we keep a good pace to make sure that we are able to stick, with flexibility, to what was agreed some time ago, bearing in mind that what was agreed was that we would work towards getting to clause 48. We are, indeed, still just on clause 30.
Further to that point of order, Sir Alan. The Minister has just emphasised my need to make a point of order. That timetable was not discussed at the Programming Sub-Committee, and nor was it agreed to. In fact, we said the opposite: we asked for it to be very clear that we were not agreeing to the timetable set out by the Government Whip. My hon. Friend the Member for Easington asked for clarification of its status, and we were told that it is advisory. We also made it very clear that we did not agree to it and we did not consider it a formal part of the business of the Programming Sub-Committee. The Government responded by saying that they were not putting down knives, which we now seem to have before us. The reason for my point of order has been clarified.
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his comments. I refer him back to my comments before his intervention and will carefully consider the issue.
The hon. Gentleman mentioned examples relating to tax compliance. HMRC has its own powers to investigate when it thinks that a person has not complied with tax law, so I do not deem it necessary to take up his suggestion.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 31 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 32
Introduction and key definitions
Amendment made: 34, in clause 32, page 15, line 14, at end insert—
‘7 | This Act | section (Offence of breach of banning order) | breach of banning order’ |
Clause 32 and chapter 4 of part 2 of the Bill relate to rent repayment orders and the first-tier tribunal’s power to make such an order in certain cases. The new provisions apply in England only. A rent repayment order requires a landlord to repay money paid as rent. It is currently available in situations in which a landlord has failed to obtain a licence for housing that ought to be licensed under the Housing Act 2004. The order is obtained by application to the first-tier tribunal, which has the power to make a rent repayment order for an amount equivalent to any rent received during the period of the offence up to a maximum of 12 months’ rent.
The clause provides that a rent repayment order may be made if a landlord commits an offence to which this chapter applies, which includes the following offences: the control and management of a house in multiple occupation that is subject to licensing but is unlicensed, and the control and management of a house that is subject to selective licensing, but is unlicensed. That consolidates the existing provision under the 2004 Act and that a rent repayment order may be made in respect of offences of using violence to obtain entry to a dwelling under the Criminal Law Act 1977, illegal eviction or harassment of occupiers of a dwelling under the Protection from Eviction Act 1977, failure to comply with an improvement notice or a prohibition order issued for a dwelling under the 2004 Act, or breach of the new banning order introduced in chapter 2 of this part of the Bill.
It is delightful to have the Minister back. I hope he is feeling less grumpy than he was this morning and that he will adopt the same, more measured tone of the Under-Secretary when good and sensible points are made by Opposition Members and agree to go away and reflect on them with a view to coming back on Report with sensible amendments.
Clause 32 reads well, but I rise to make one particular point. Assuming that a housing authority goes to the first-tier tribunal to take action against a rogue landlord, a tenant may well want a rent repayment order to be issued as part of the package of action taken against that landlord. Does the Minister envisage that legal aid will be available to tenants so that they can access quality legal advice and make robust representations at the first-tier tribunal rather than rely on the good will or not of the housing authority bringing the action?
The clause could be helpful for the tenants of the 10,500 rogue landlords, but we need to ensure that tenants are properly represented and have the means to benefit from it. It would be helpful to hear from the Minister whether any discussions have taken place with the Ministry of Justice about whether tenants in such a position who want a rent repayment order to be issued might be able to secure legal aid for quality representation at the first-tier tribunal. I look forward to his response.
We published a document in August seeking comments on a range of issues in relation to tackling rogue landlords and these clauses came out of the responses to that. Of those who responded, 88% said that we should introduce rent repayment orders when a landlord has failed to comply with the statutory notice and 85% said that we should introduce rent repayment orders for situations in which a tenant has been illegally evicted. This measure is therefore very much driven by the people who responded, including tenants,
I take on board the points that the hon. Gentleman made, though I ignored some of his remarks that do his own good humour no justice. I will have a look at those points and come back to him in the next few days.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 32, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 33
Application for rent repayment order
Amendments made: 35, in clause 33, page 15, leave out line 24.
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Amendment 36, in clause 33, page 15, line 27, leave out first “breach or”.
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Amendment 37, in clause 33, page 15, line 27, leave out second “breach or”.
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Amendment 38, in clause 33, page 15, line 29, leave out “the breach occurred or”.
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Amendment 39, in clause 33, page 15, line 32, leave out “breach or”.—(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
The clause enables a tenant or local housing authority to apply for a rent repayment order against a landlord who has committed an offence listed in clause 32.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 33, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 34
Notice of intended proceedings
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
The clause specifies that, before a local housing authority applies for a rent repayment order, it must give the landlord notice of intended proceedings. That notice must inform the landlord that the local housing authority proposes to apply for a rent repayment order and explain why. It must also state the amount it seeks to recover and invite the landlord to make representations, giving them not less than 28 days’ notice.
The local housing authority must consider any representations received before deciding whether to proceed with the application. The local housing authority must wait until after the notice period has expired before applying for a rent repayment order. The notice of intended proceedings must be given within 12 months beginning on the day that the landlord breached the banning order.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 34 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 35
Order following breach of banning order
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 35 should not stand part of the Bill.
Question put and negatived.
Clause 35 accordingly disagreed to.
Clause 36
Amount of order under section 35
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 36 should not stand part of the Bill because, as with clause 35, the breach of a banning order is now a criminal offence, so the clause is no longer required.
Question put and negatived.
Clause 36 accordingly disagreed to.
Clause 37
Order following offence
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 37 enables a rent repayment order to be made if the first-tier tribunal is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that a landlord has committed an offence and an application has been made under clause 33. The offences that are covered by this clause are where a landlord has not complied with an improvement notice, a prohibition notice or the licensing requirement as set out in the Housing Act 2004; and where a landlord has been found guilty of violent entry into a property or where they have unlawfully evicted a tenant. The amount of rent to be repaid will be determined in accordance with clause 38 if a tenant makes the application, with clause 39 if the application is made by the local housing authority, or with clause 40 if the landlord has been convicted.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 37 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 38
Amount of order under section 37: tenants
Amendment made: 42, in clause 38, page 17, line 23, leave out “or 6” and insert “, 6 or 7”—(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
Clause 38 specifies the amount of rent to be repaid following a decision by the first-tier tribunal to make a rent repayment order in favour of the tenant. Where the grounds for the order are that a landlord has effected a violent entry to a property or has illegally evicted or harassed the tenant, the amount must relate to rent paid by the tenant in respect of the period of 12 months ending with the date of the offence. Where a landlord has not complied with an improvement notice, a prohibition notice or licensing requirements, or where they have breached a banning order, the amount must relate to a period not exceeding 12 months during which the landlord was committing the offence.
The amount of rent that the landlord may be required to repay must not exceed the rent paid in respect of that period, less any relevant award of universal credit or housing benefit paid in respect of rent under the tenancy during that period. In determining the amount to be repaid, the tribunal must, in particular, take into account the conduct of the landlord—and, indeed, of the tenant—the financial circumstances of the landlord and whether they have, at any time, been convicted of an offence to which this chapter applies.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 38, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 39
Amount of order under section 37: local housing authorities
Amendment made: 43, in clause 39, page 18, line 8, leave out “or 6” and insert “, 6 or 7”—(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
Clause 39 specifies the amount of rent to be repaid following a decision of the first-tier tribunal to make a rent repayment order in favour of a local housing authority. The grounds I outlined in clause 38 apply all the way through.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 39, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 40
Amount of order following conviction
Amendment made: 44, in clause 40, page 18, line 30, leave out “or 4” and insert “, 4 or 7” —(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for amendment 34.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
The clause specifies that the amount to be repaid to a tenant or local housing authority is to be the maximum that the first-tier tribunal has power to order in certain circumstances. Those circumstances are, first, that the order is made against a landlord who has been convicted by a court of an offence to which the chapter applies, or who has received a civil penalty in respect of the offence, and that the period of appeal against the penalty has expired or any appeal has been finally determined or withdrawn.
Secondly, the maximum will be payable when the order is made in favour of a local housing authority in respect of any offences to which the chapter applies. Where the order is made in favour of a tenant, however, the maximum will be obligatory only in respect of the new grounds of commission of an offence of violent entry, or of unlawful eviction or harassment, failure to comply with an improvement notice or breach of a banning order, but not in respect of a licensing offence. When the first-tier tribunal considers repayment of the full amount unreasonable because of exceptional circumstances it might not be required.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 40, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 41
Enforcement of rent repayment orders
I beg to move amendment 111, in clause 41, page 19, line 10, at end insert—
“, and about what extra charges the local housing authority may levy to fund investigation, enforcement, and other matters related to the operation of rent repayment orders.”
This amendment would ensure that local housing authorities are able to levy a landlord who is ordered to pay a rent repayment order, in order to fund their related activities.
The amendment is probing, so we only want some clarity from the Minister. It would enable a levy by local housing authorities to fund investigation, enforcement and other matters relating to the operation of rent repayment orders. The Bill allows the orders to be covered by the local housing authority in cases of universal credit or housing benefit, or by tenants. We welcome the provision, which seeks to ensure that tenants are not at a loss financially after their landlord commits a housing offence or if they let from a landlord in breach of a banning order. Local housing authorities, however, might have no incentive to investigate allegations.
Clauses 42 and 43 mandate authorities to consider applying for a rent repayment order and to assist tenants in applying for one, but under clause 41 the powers rest with the Secretary of State to make provision by regulation for how local housing authorities are to deal with amounts recovered under rent repayment orders. We do not know what the secondary legislation will be, so the amendment would ensure that the local housing authorities are able to levy additional moneys from a landlord who is ordered to pay a rent repayment order to fund their investigations and enforcement actions.
If rent repayment orders are to be successful operationally, local authorities need to be able to fund their work. The amendment seeks to introduce a measure that would allow them to do so. Will the Minister outline his view of how local housing authorities should use the amounts recovered and whether they are to receive a proportion of receipts to compensate them for their investigatory work? Local authorities will be expected to do a great deal, whether assisting a tenant or acting on their own behalf. There will be pressures on council staff time and resources and, should the matter go to the first-tier tribunal, there will undoubtedly be more legal costs or costs for legal advice.
I completely agree. Some local authorities will be able to do this, but some local authorities simply will not be able to do it because they do not have the funds. We have moved this probing amendment to ask the Minister whether that has been considered and how the Government intend to make the measure work if a local authority does not have the resources to carry out the work set out in the Bill.
I am slightly surprised by some of the comments made by the hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood. Bear in mind that, as I think those on both sides of the Committee have agreed—it has certainly been agreed outside—there will be a fairly stringent set of measures to do what we can to crack down on rogue landlords. The hon. Member for Harrow West mentioned a situation in my constituency that I think I mentioned on Second Reading, and those are exactly the sorts of landlords we need to drive out of the system. I absolutely support anything we can do to do that. It is disappointing that Labour did not do those things in 13 years and it has taken a full Conservative Government to get to grips with the issue.
The hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood might also want to look back at the comments made by the Under-Secretary of State on what we will consider in order to ensure that the list is properly used and well used, allowing for the Data Protection Act issues and the fact that sometimes these are organisations that have a legitimate right to run their business. Criminal prosecutions and banning orders are still part of the process; I think the hon. Lady has forgotten some of what was debated earlier.
In response to the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead, other measures proposed in the Bill will allow local authorities to retain civil penalties and to receive moneys from rent repayment orders where the rent has been paid from housing benefit or universal credit. Local authorities can also recover their costs from prosecutions; we have to get the balance right so that we do not make the system disproportionate by imposing a levy on top of those other financial penalties that can be levied and held by a local authority. With that explanation, and although I have great sympathy for her ethos, I hope she will be able to withdraw her amendment.
My concern is that different local authorities operate in very different ways. Some are resourced and some are not, and I would not want tenants in one local authority not to have the same protection as tenants in another local authority, but I accept what the Minister says. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.
Clause 41 provides that an amount payable under a rent repayment order is recoverable as a debt. It further provides that such an amount payable to a local housing authority does not, when recovered by the authority, constitute an amount of housing benefit or universal credit recovered by the authority. The clause also provides that the Secretary of State may make regulations on how local authorities are to deal with the amounts so recovered, which consolidates existing provision under the Housing Act 2004 under which regulations have been made providing that recovered amounts are to be applied for purposes under the Act and that any amount remaining is to be paid to the Consolidated Fund.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 41 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clauses 42 to 46 ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 47
Meaning of “letting agent” and related expressions
Amendments made: 45, in clause 47, page 21, line 1, leave out subsection (5)
See Member’s explanatory statement for NC8.
Amendment 46, in clause 47, page 21, leave out lines 11 and 12—(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement for NC8.
Question proposed, That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill.
Briefly, clause 47 provides a definition of a letting agent and what letting agency work includes for the purpose of part 2 of the Bill.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause 47, as amended, accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.
Clause 48
General interpretation of Part
Amendments made: 47, in clause 48, page 21, line 21, leave out “47” and insert
“(Meaning of “property manager” and related expressions)”
See Member’s explanatory statement for NC8.
Amendment 48, in clause 48, page 21, line 36, at end insert—
““property agent” means a letting agent or property manager;
“property manager” has the meaning given by section (Meaning of “property manager” and related expressions);”
See Member’s explanatory statement for NC8.
Amendment 49, in clause 48, page 21, leave out line 37—(Brandon Lewis.)
See Member’s explanatory statement to NC8.
Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned.—(Julian Smith.)