Taxes

Debate between Bradley Thomas and Sam Rushworth

Wednesday 12th November 2025 Commons Chamber

[Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

I would also like to thank the Opposition for giving us this opportunity to set out two competing visions for Britain: growth, modernisation, new infrastructure and stronger public services under Labour; or a return to austerity, Government waste and decline under the Tories—of both their shades of blue. The Tories’ 14 years of power is a tale of two halves. First came—[Interruption.] They do not like to hear it. First came austerity, which broke our public services, leading to the social problems that have increased cost pressures on Government today, but in their final years they did away with austerity, and we saw astonishing levels of profligate waste, dodgy covid contracts, vanity projects and promises that were made to our constituents but never funded.

The hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) described Liz Truss’s Kwamikaze Budget as

“the best Conservative budget since 1986”,

but I think most people in this place would agree that we have to live within our means. The Chancellor has inherited a difficult challenge because, on the one hand, she inherited an economy with a debt to GDP ratio of over 99%—the highest debt since the 1960s. On the other hand, she inherited a broken state.

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

Can the hon. Gentleman clarify the bundle of contradictions that we have heard over the last year from Labour Members? I recall that, in July 2024, we heard from the former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), that Labour had to abolish winter fuel payments for older people because there would be a run on the pound, and then they were reinstated because the economy had allegedly stabilised. We are hearing from the Chancellor and from Ministers that the economy is in a state that requires additional taxation and additional spending. We are hearing all these noises from the Labour party around the need to—

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[Sam Rushworth]

That is a fair question, and I will answer it. It is important that we do not return to the days when the Conservatives were in office and vanity projects wasted so much public money, because child poverty is the scourge of our time. We need a national mission to eradicate child poverty. Some of what we need to do will come through, for example, our looking at the two-child cap, but not all of it. I have argued in this place for us to extend free school meals, and I am pleased that the Government have listened to that and are extending them to more children. I have argued in this place for free breakfast clubs, and I am pleased that the Chancellor is listening and funding them. Unlike the Conservatives, she is funding free childcare, because these things matter, too. This is not just about benefits; it is about ensuring that we give children what they need to have a meaningful childhood.

[Bradley Thomas]

I am not sure that I heard an answer to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Lincoln Jopp). Does the hon. Member support a two-child cap, or would he like it removed?

[Sam Rushworth]

I have never supported the two-child cap. The Conservatives introduced a two-tier benefit system that penalised younger families in a way that it does not penalise older families. My genuine view is that this needs to be looked at creatively. I do not know what the Chancellor will do, but my view is that we need to do something about the problem; possibly we need a tapered system. I have a big family, and I know that my fifth child did not cost what my first child did. I have confidence that this Government, like the last Labour Government, will eradicate child poverty.

I make the point again that child poverty is not just about benefits; it is about what we do to improve childhood. It is about giving children more access to the creative arts, as the Education Secretary this week announced we would. It is about getting youth hubs back; we are working on that. It is about free breakfast clubs, and the warm home discount being extended to more people.