Transport for London Bill [Lords]

Debate between Bob Blackman and Baroness Bray of Coln

Tuesday 9th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman]

I thank my hon. Friend for his suggestion. That would be a very radical move away from TfL’s existing capability and the arrangements that are made. I am sure the Mayor of London will be listening to the debate and will consider that suggestion appropriately, but it is beyond the scope of Second Reading, which is limited regarding proposed borrowing changes.

Transport for London’s subsidiary share of the profits generated by a partnership will be liable to tax in the same way as if a company were used instead of a limited partnership, thereby maintaining appropriate tax transparency. Several individuals, and particularly the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, have been concerned about whether the Secretary of State should give permission for such entities to be entered into. I understand that a written undertaking has been given to the hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) and the RMT on the basis that an amendment will be introduced in Committee that would require the Secretary of State’s permission for such an organisation to be permitted, which I hope answers one of the principal objections.

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

Is there an awareness of concerns that some of my local residents will have about proposals for the increased use of the Acton depot? As my hon. Friend will know, there is a substantial residential community in that area, which will not welcome the further increase in pollution that I suspect some of these activities will lead to.

[Bob Blackman]

My hon. Friend is a doughty campaigner for her local residents, and she has been at the forefront of the campaign against environmental air pollution and suchlike in her area. One objection to the Bill comes from the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), whom we will hear from later, in relation to the Earls Court development. I understand that part of that process is to transfer the depot from the Earls Court area to Acton. Clearly, as sponsors TfL will have to ensure that air and noise pollution is reduced considerably to answer the objections that my hon. Friend has related to the House.

Clause 6 seeks to expand the type of entities through which TfL’s commercial activities must be undertaken. TfL is currently required to undertake profit-making activities through a company limited by shares that is either a subsidiary or a joint venture. The clause amends that restriction to give TfL the option of using any type of entity that it has the power to form. In addition to a company limited by shares, TfL would be able to use a company limited by guarantee, a limited liability partnership, or a limited partnership. Importantly, clause 6 preserves the policy that TfL must undertake commercial activities through a taxable entity by requiring that a TfL subsidiary be member of a limited liability partnership, or a partner in a limited partnership. A company limited by guarantee is itself liable to taxation. Clause 6 will enable TfL to conduct its affairs more flexibly and at the same time preserve tax transparency and ensure that the relevant amount of tax is paid to the Exchequer. That will mean that it can use the structure that best suits the opportunity, and net the maximum value for money from its assets in so doing.

Clause 7 amends TfL’s hedging power, responding to changes in the way financial institutions hedge risk away from specific commodity trading to trading by indices—for example, the use of an oil price index as opposed to a barrel of Brent crude oil—which protects the hedging power considerably. It also gives TfL the capacity to enter into derivative investment when exposed to risk by virtue of a contractual arrangement for the provision by others of public transport services. For example, movements in fuel prices, which obviously affect TfL’s costs, would be protected.

Currently, TfL’s hedging power may be applied only to risks to which a TfL body is directly exposed. Clause 7 clarifies that it may use its hedging powers in respect of its liability to any pension fund, for example. It is not proposed that TfL enter into any derivative investments on behalf of the TfL pension fund, so members of that fund will be protected. It is not inconceivable, however, that the fund might decide that a particular risk is acceptable, given that all its liabilities are long term and that TfL effectively underpins the risks through an obligation to increase its contributions, if necessary, and that TfL might believe that the risk needs to be mitigated. Clause 7 provides for that specific scenario only.

In summary, the Bill will assist TfL in securing the most cost-effective borrowing possible. It will give TfL greater flexibility over how it structures its affairs, while preserving the requirement that its profit-making activities be taxed appropriately in the UK. It will improve TfL’s hedging power by reflecting developments in the derivatives market and permitting the hedging of risks that arise through contractual exposure and as a consequence of its obligations to pension funds. It will allow TfL to maximise income and investment in its assets and to deliver better value for money for fare payers and taxpayers, which we, as London MPs, crave every day. I commend the Bill to the House.

Wild Animals (Circuses)

Debate between Bob Blackman and Baroness Bray of Coln

Thursday 23rd June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

As a child, I used to get rather excited by the prospect of a visit to the circus; one reason was that I wanted to see all the exotic animals that I could not normally get close to, apart from those that I saw in zoos, which in those days were rather caged affairs. Obviously, however, things have changed. We are all now entertained by brilliant films on TV and in cinemas that contain amazing footage of wild animals in their natural habitat. Most zoos are made to look rather boring in comparison with what David Attenborough shows us. Thanks to many animal welfare associations, we are also much better educated about world wildlife and how it should be treated. For those who really want to see wildlife close up, let us not forget the modern tourist industry. People can save up their pennies and take themselves off on a safari or a trip to the rainforest. These are the ways in which we can see wild animals at their best, and there really is no excuse or need for wild animals in circuses.

The more we know and understand these magnificent animals, the more we recognise that a circus tent is no place for them. Some of them might have been whipped, goaded or herded into their rather pathetic performances. I can still remember from my visits to the circus that when the lions and other big animals came in, extra security was immediately put on and a man with a whip, if not a chair, would appear. That tells us everything that we need to know. Of course these animals are not safe in the circus environment; they have to be controlled. Of course they cannot be relied on to relax and enjoy themselves; they are in an unnatural environment, surrounded on all sides by human beings, of whom they are instinctively frightened. Frankly, these animals’ continued presence in the circus ring, even if there are only about 39 of them, diminishes us all.

I know that some will argue that some animals are not, in fact, wild because they were born in captivity. We heard that this afternoon, but I do not see what difference that makes. A lion or an elephant still has natural instincts; it still needs proper space to move around in, and being driven around the country for much of the year in the back of a van is no place for these animals.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that introducing a firm ban with a firm date means that no new animals will be brought into circuses and that the circus owners will be put on notice that those currently operating in circuses will need to be retired to appropriate circumstances that suit their needs?

[Angie Bray]

I certainly agree that we need a ban, although I am just a little worried about whether the time frame is practical; I will come back to that issue later, if I may.

I want to put it on record that I am not in favour of banning all animals from circuses. I think that some of the more domesticated animals—dogs and ponies spring to mind—thoroughly enjoy themselves. I recall going to a charming little circus in France where a farmer, his wife, their two children, a goat and a dog held us all spellbound for about an hour. I can say that that dog and goat had a good time, getting a treat every time they did something brilliant. We know that there is room for some animals; it is the big wild animals that are the problem.

In conclusion, I want a ban on wild animals in circuses. I recognise, however, that there might be certain legal obstacles to getting that straight away. A time frame of one year is perhaps a little impractical. I am not an expert on EU law, but I know that before a ban of this sort could be introduced, there would have to be consultation and a way would have to found to re-home these 39 animals. That is why I intend to abstain this evening. However, I also put the Government on notice that I want to see a ban and want them to do whatever they must to introduce a ban as practicably as they can.

Equitable Life (Payments) Bill

Debate between Bob Blackman and Baroness Bray of Coln

Tuesday 14th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I should also like to place on record my congratulations to my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce). I have to confess that, as I listened to her speech, I looked at my road map, having driven through her constituency on many occasions, trying to avoid the traffic on the M6.

We should also congratulate Opposition Members who stood up to the previous Government and said that they were wrong to prevent the policyholders of Equitable Life from receiving just compensation. I also congratulate the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), who was left in isolation today, without the other members of his Front-Bench team who, under the Labour Government, made the decision to defend the indefensible—namely, 10 years of inaction and putting roadblocks in the way of the policyholders to prevent them from receiving their just compensation.

There are four players in this mix. First, there are the Equitable Life policyholders. They invested for their future and set aside money for their old age. They took a small risk, thinking that they would receive their just rewards in the long term. In normal circumstances, I would maintain that the public purse cannot bail out private investors, but this is a unique position, because those Equitable Life policyholders believed that the Government and the regulator were acting properly. It took court action and the ombudsman’s report to drag out the fact that the reverse was the case. It is right that the policyholders should be compensated in the way that has been proposed.

Members of Parliament are also players, seeking to act as advocates for the policyholders who have been so badly treated. We all want to see just and proper compensation for those policyholders. Treasury Ministers are players, too, and they will have to deal with the politics, and with the financial chaos that the coalition Government have inherited. Finally, we have the Treasury, which will try to minimise the amount of money paid out, in order to safeguard the public purse.

I congratulate the Financial Secretary on taking prompt and appropriate action. He could, presumably, have stopped the Chadwick report in its tracks. However, that would have set us back at least a year, while we sought another approach. Instead, he allowed it to come to fruition. It is quite clear that members of EMAG and MPs of all parties, but particularly Government Members, are unhappy with the Chadwick approach and believe that his report is fundamentally flawed. The resulting issue is whether we are to adopt the approach of Chadwick or of the ombudsman—or some hybrid approach to deal with the disgrace that has happened.

We also have to deal with the fact that policyholders had a range of policies, which means that a range of people are involved. Many complex negotiations and calculations have to be undertaken. Sadly, some policyholders are deceased. For them, whatever we do, it is too late. We should and must compensate their spouses, however, while ensuring that the survivors receive proper and due compensation. That is only right and just.

[Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that at a time when we want to encourage people to become savers again, it is vital to be seen to support these people and do what we can to help them through what turned out to be an absolute disaster? We must send out the right message—that we are here to support savers and that we want to do the right thing by them. Is that not the best way to help get people back to feeling secure in making savings?

[Bob Blackman]

I could not agree more with my hon. Friend.

There is a second set of policyholders within Equitable Life, whom I believe are critical—the people who have reached retirement age and are dependent on this income. Telling them that they will not receive any compensation until next summer is a disgrace. We have to do something more quickly to honour those people in their latter years so that they are properly compensated now, not when they are at death’s door. I ask the Treasury team to look urgently at that matter.

Other sets of policyholders will have many years to go before they retire. They can be compensated in many years’ time—with top-ups to their pension pots, for example, or in different ways. On these crucial issues, I hope that the Front-Bench team will confirm in the winding-up speeches what is going be done.

First, I believe we need an appeal process—not relating to the amount of money people receive, but to the structure of the scheme and where people will fit into it so that the payments can be made. That will be a complex area. I doubt very much whether everyone will be completely satisfied with the amount of money they eventually receive, so we really need an appeal process. I would welcome further confirmation from the Front-Bench team that they are considering how to deal with that.

Secondly, there is the issue of the total amount of money to be given to Equitable Life policyholders. It is quite clear from the estimates and all the reports that we are talking about something in the order of between £4.5 billion and £5 billion. I would like to see some recognition, for the benefit of EMAG members, that that is the total sum of money they are due. I think they all live in the real world; they know the financial mess the country is in, as bequeathed by the Labour Government. They will listen when it is explained that the number—whatever it is—needs to be adjusted down as part of the comprehensive spending review.

I have a real fear, however, that if we hear that number as part of the comprehensive spending review, people will start comparing the amount of money justly given in compensation to Equitable Life policyholders with, say, the amount that is being given to education, for schools, to hospitals, universities or old people’s homes. Then we will face the problem of priority. I think everyone recognises that difficult choices lie ahead, but if we can get it recognised that the right sum is something in the order of £4.5 billion to £5 billion, it will be possible for policyholders to recognise that that will not be the full compensation that they will receive—but the right sort of signals will have been sent.

We also need to be clear on the acceptability of the Chadwick report and its methodology. We have heard tonight—every Member is of the same view—that the problem with the Chadwick report is that its methodology is flawed and that the total cap on the money is unacceptable. Let us hear that the Front-Bench team are going to sweep it away and that the figures involved will be taken into account, but will not be the be-all and end-all of the process. Then EMAG could feel that tonight was a good night for its members and we could feel confident in the future.