Menopause (Support and Services) Bill

Ben Spencer Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 29th October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

I join Members from across the House in paying tribute to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for bringing forward this very important debate and for the campaign she has been running.

I have a different experience of the issue. Obviously, I have not been through the menopause, but as a doctor working in mental health I have looked after several women who have come to me where their depression has been misdiagnosed as the menopause. So I have seen the issue the other way around. I completely get the point that has been made across the House by several Members that understanding and recognition in this area by clinicians is something that people have many concerns about and needs to be improved. One thing that I have really taken notice of is the strength of feeling around that and the medical profession needs to think about that. I should make some declarations. I am still a member of the medical profession. I am a member of the Royal College of Physicians and the Royal College of Psychiatrists, but, as I would say if I was a member of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies, I am here speaking in a personal capacity today.

I want to talk about one of the statistics that has been put out, which is that 41% of medical schools do not have formal training on the menopause. I found that astounding—I had formal training on the menopause when I went to medical school—so it is worth unpicking that a little bit. I had a look in the briefing to see where that came from. My reading of it is that it is not that student doctors and GPs are not getting training; they are getting training. They are getting vocational training on placements with senior doctors who are teaching them, but some schools do not have formal modules in terms of didactic sit-down teaching on it. I think we need to be a little careful when we say there is no training on the menopause and to dig in a little bit. The reason that is important—as I say, I totally get the sentiment and agree on the need for improvement and better recognition —is that we need to be careful about issuing diktats for how the profession approaches its training programmes. If we carve off something for one disorder, the question then is, “Well, what about other things?” Eventually, the strength of the argument will start to diminish, because we will have all different campaign groups saying, “This needs to be separately cut out, and this, and this.”

[Carolyn Harris]

Can I just say, 51% of the population is a huge amount of people who are not getting appropriate care.

[Dr Spencer]

I thank the hon. Member for her intervention and for pointing that out, but I would argue that it is maybe not 51% of the population who are in that situation of needing that care and support. Although 51% will go through the menopause, that is different from saying that 51% of the population will therefore need medical intervention and medical discussions around this.

But like I say, I do not particularly want to get into a deep debate on this; I just wonder whether we could ask the profession what it thinks it can do better, rather than us telling it, top-down. Of course, I would say that, I am a doctor—yadda, yadda, yadda; declarations, etc.—but I just wonder what the profession would say in response to the hon. Member’s campaign about how it can improve things and whether we can hear a bit more about that.

My final point is that, in a sense, I find the fact that we are having to have today’s debate deeply depressing. It is a wider indictment of the problems we have in society with the role and position of women. We have got the Equality Act 2010 and lots of legislation and statute, but as we have heard, when it comes to cultures and attitudes, it is just not there. There really needs to be a step change, given the events of the past year and what we have seen with sexual harassment. I have loads of constituents who come to me and tell me about the disrespect experienced by women. I hear the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price). It is frankly appalling that women’s health has been left behind. We need to think carefully about what we can do as leaders of our communities and society to change things and increase respect for girls and women and the position of women in society. On that note, I absolutely pay tribute to the hon. Member for Swansea East for bringing this debate forward and the campaign she is running.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con)]

May I also add my thanks to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) for this amazing debate and Bill?

When I was first in Parliament, I encountered the exact experiences in all the comments read out by the hon. Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins). I was incredibly worried about it. I am delighted that so many people are now speaking out about it in public, because none of that was happening when I was first in Parliament and going through the menopause myself. Other than knowing that hot flushes were part of the process, I had no idea about any of the other symptoms until I listened to “Woman’s Hour” in, I think, 2017 and literally everything became clear: the brain fog, the insomnia, which I am afraid has not gone away—it was in the middle of the night that I heard the programme—and the anxiety and weepiness and feeling that you couldn’t cope with what was happening to you. That was very much part of it. Weight gain is common in Westminster anyway, and a lot of men also gain the Westminster stone, so I cannot blame the menopause for that, but it is certainly something that we need to work on.

That is why this conversation is so important. There are 5.1 million women aged between 45 and 55, and it is estimated that 1.5 million will be going through the menopause at any one time, yet we are so embarrassed to talk about it. Husbands and partners are at a loss as to why their wives and partners are struggling, because the symptoms have been hidden from public knowledge. If I had known some of the symptoms before, I could have dealt with them better, and I am sure my husband could have as well. That “Woman’s Hour” programme was a saviour for me, because suddenly I understood what was happening, and if you understand what is happening, you are better able to face it.

Turning to HRT, I never take medication, apart from the odd pain killer, so taking something to control a natural process was something that I did not consider—probably mostly from ignorance, I should add—but I completely understand that others need medical help. The House of Commons Library briefing states that

“16,000 women were admitted to hospital in England in 2019/20 with conditions associated with the menopause.”

I had absolutely no idea, and I am sure that most of the public do not either.

The case on HRT has been well made, so I will not say more on that, but I do hope that we can consider how it can be made affordable, because, otherwise, it will become a postcode lottery. I am very grateful that a Member who represents a constituency in Wales is interested in looking after all of us who live in England.

I wish to comment on the second part of the Bill, because it is very important. I am really pleased that everything has been raised so publicly, but it is extraordinary that it is only in the past four years that people have been bold enough to speak out, when this has been happening to millions of women for centuries. The big change is that more women are in the workplace now than at any time over the past 100 years, and nearly half of all women are over 50. I am really pleased that we have the menopause workplace pledge, with so many employers leading the way. I hope that Parliament has signed up to it, too. Flexible working hours are essential, especially as lack of sleep is a big issue. Another thought is allowing women to come later into work if they travel on public transport, so that they do not have to crowd themselves in when they are feeling incredibly hot. I have come off the tube so many times absolutely drenched in sweat and incredibly embarrassed that I do not have a change of clothes when I get to my office.

The point about training GPs is crucial, too. I listened to what my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) had to say. I spoke to a doctor about this and found that the issue is barely covered in their initial medical training. For GPs, the clue is in the name—the name is general practice, which means that GPs have to cover a huge area in their curriculum, and it is not mandatory to have additional training for a condition such as the menopause in their professional development. I would very much like to see such training being seen as part of their professional development and it should be taken perhaps every year or every few years, so that they can keep up to date with every aspect, whether it be HRT or anything else on the menopause.

[Dr Spencer]

Does my hon. Friend hope that the chair of the Royal College of General Practitioners is listening to this debate today and responds to the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris) on what we are talking about on GP training?

[Mrs Drummond]

Absolutely, because it is incredibly important that people understand what we are going through—whether we are talking about men or women or people of any age. As someone who does not see the same doctor twice in their practice, although I have not been there very often, I do not have that relationship with a GP, so I would feel embarrassed about going to ask for something that I did not know much about.

On the peer-to-peer point, when I returned to Parliament in 2019, I looked around at the new intake and started approaching women of a certain age—I call them my WOCA group—to form a support group to help those going through the menopause. This has been a lifeline to us, and I hope that everyone else considers that as well. [Interruption.] I can see Madam Deputy Speaker indicating to me.

Finally, may I thank the hon. Member for Swansea East. She truly is a force of nature and I congratulate her on all the things that she is achieving in Parliament, and it is such a joy to work with someone on the Opposition Benches to make a real difference to people’s lives.