Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Thursday 23rd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

My hon. Friend has raised that with me in the past, and I have spoken to my officials. I encourage her to continue to liaise with the Football Foundation to understand what might be possible, so I suggest she passes that on. She is a really successful and staunch campaigner for her local area. I have worked with her on a number of campaigns, and I have every faith in her success in this particular campaign.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I, too, thank Liam Laurence Smyth, who was the first Clerk who worked for me when I was Chair of the Education Committee. He became a great friend and mentor, and this House will miss him dreadfully.

Is there any special money for communities that have a rich tradition of music and the arts? Huddersfield, my constituency, has the Huddersfield Choral, brass bands, so many centres of excellence, and an international festival of music. Could we have special money for towns such as mine, which would give a boost to the whole country for the arts?

[Lucy Frazer]

We have special money for areas across the country, because every year the Arts Council has £444 million to spend. It spends a significant amount of that money in music.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Thursday 9th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: this is an opportunity for everybody across all parts of the UK to take part. There will be the Coronation Big Lunch street parties and the Big Help Out, as well as screens out for people to enjoy what is a very important celebration on the day itself.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Sports Minister come to Huddersfield to see what is going at Huddersfield Town AFC and Huddersfield Giants, in the teams and the stadium? Will the Secretary of State support my campaign to keep the National Rugby League Museum in or very close to the George Hotel, where it was founded?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Thursday 13th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

My right hon. Friend has made an important point, because, of course, transport crosses corridors. As she will know, transport in London is devolved to the Mayor of London, and the Government have agreed with Transport for London a £1.2 billion multi-year settlement to secure the long-term future of London’s transport network, including bus services. Where bus-tender routes operate across transport authority boundaries, we expect the local transport authorities involved to work closely with bus operators.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

David Amess was a parliamentary mate. He was a proper parliamentarian. We miss him dreadfully. He would not like me to call him a mate, mind, but it is the truth.

Is the Minister aware that hydrogen-powered buses are widely available? I think there are already 16 on the streets of Belfast—I should have been speaking at a sustainability conference in Belfast today—but hydrogen-powered heavy goods vehicles and trucks, including waste trucks, are also available. When will local authorities have proper subsidies to enable them to get those hydrogen-powered buses and trucks on the road, now?

[Lucy Frazer]

The Government are absolutely committed to ensuring that we have a wide variety of energy sources for our transport system. The hon. Gentleman will know that only last week the Secretary of State announced £24 million for Teesside to expand its hydrogen works. I am aware of the hydrogen-powered buses; significant Government funds are available for them, for electric buses, and for various other mechanisms.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Tuesday 17th May 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

May I invite the Minister to come to Wakefield with me? I was there on Saturday morning. The people there have not read the Bloomberg report, but they can feel the impact of rising taxes and the cost of living. They know that they will be in desperate trouble in the coming months. Will she get real and bring the Chancellor to an area of good hard-working people who face the future with great fear?

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank the hon. Gentleman and am sure that I will soon make a visit to Wakefield. The Government understand the issue with the rise in the cost of living but over this year we have committed £22 billion to support people in their time of need. The people in Wakefield that the hon. Gentleman talks about will also benefit from the cuts we have made to taxes, such as the universal taper rate, a tax cut for 1.2 million people and an extra £1,000 in their pockets. We have increased the threshold to the NICs rate, a £6 billion tax cut for £30 million working people. As I said—[Interruption.]

Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Rates, Limits and Thresholds Amendments and National Insurance Funds Payments) Regulations 2022 Draft Tax Credits, Child Benefits and Guardians Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2022

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Tuesday 22nd February 2022 General Committees

[Lucy Frazer]

These regulations set the national insurance contribution limits and thresholds as well as the rates of a number of national insurance contributions for the 2022-23 tax year, and make provision for a Treasury grant to be paid into the national insurance fund if required. As Members are aware, national insurance contributions or NICs are a key element of the nation’s welfare safety net, helping to support workers through ill health, unemployment and old age. They allow people to make contributions when they are in work in order to receive contributory benefits when they are not working. NICs receipts go towards funding contributory benefits as well as the NHS.

As announced at the Budget, the Government are using the September consumer prices index figure of 3.1% as the basis for setting all national insurance limits and thresholds and the rates of class 2 and 3 national insurance contributions for 2022-23. September CPI is the standard measure to increase NICs thresholds and class 2 and 3 rates. I will first outline the specific changes to the class 1 primary threshold and class 4 lower profits limit. The primary threshold and lower profits limit indicate the point at which employees and the self-employed start paying class 1 and class 4 NICs respectively. These thresholds will rise from £9,568 to £9,880 per year. The rates of class 1 and 4 NICs are unchanged by these regulations. The rates of class 1 and 4 NICs have already been increased, to 13.25% and 10.25% respectively, through the Health and Social Care Levy Act 2021. Increases to the primary threshold and lower profits limit do not impact on state pension eligibility. This is determined by the lower earnings limit for employees, which will increase, in line with CPI, from £6,240 in 2021-22 to £6,396 in 2022-23. I will come shortly to payment of class 2 NICs for the self-employed.

The upper earnings limit, the point at which the main rate of employee NICs drops to 3.25%, is aligned with the higher rate threshold for income tax. It was announced at spring Budget 2021 that the income tax higher rate threshold and the upper earnings limit would remain frozen at £50,270 until 2025-26. Similarly, the upper profits limit is the point at which the main rate for class 4 NICs drops to 3.25%. This will also remain at £50,270 per year.

As well as class 4 NICs, the self-employed pay class 2 NICs. The rate of class 2 NICs will increase from £3.05 in 2021-22 to £3.15 in 2022-23. The small profits threshold is the point above which the self-employed must pay class 2 NICs. This will increase from £6,515 in 2021-22 to £6,725 in 2022-23.

Class 3 NICs allow people to voluntarily top up their national insurance record. The rate for class 3 will increase, in line with inflation, from £15.40 a week in 2021-22 to £15.85 in 2022-23. The secondary threshold is the point at which employers start paying employer NICs on their employees’ salary. That threshold will increase from £8,840 in 2021-22 to £9,100 in 2022-23. The threshold at which employers of people under 21 and apprentices under 25 start to pay employer NICs on those employee salaries will remain frozen at £50,270 per year, to maintain alignment with the UEL.

The regulations also make provision for a Treasury grant of up to 17% of forecast annual benefit expenditure to be paid into the national insurance fund, if needed, during 2022-23. A similar provision will be made in respect of the Northern Ireland national insurance fund. A Government Actuary’s Department report laid alongside the re-rating regulations forecast that a Treasury grant will not be required in 2022-23, but in view of the economic challenges created by the covid pandemic, the Government consider it prudent to make the maximum provision at this stage. I trust that is a useful overview of the changes we are making to adjust contributions to the Exchequer in line with inflation.

On the second statutory instrument, the Government are committed to delivering a welfare system that is fair for claimants and taxpayers, while providing a strong safety net for those who need it most. The draft regulations will ensure tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance increase in line with the consumer prices index, which measured inflation at 3.1% in the year to September 2021.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Some of us have not seen this statutory instrument. I was only given one when I came in. I did not realise there were two statutory instruments.

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[Lucy Frazer]

In my introductory remarks, I set out how each threshold will be increased, but I am happy to set that out in writing to him. He also spoke about the steps we are taking to protect the most vulnerable. He will know that, last September, we put in place a support package of half a billion pounds to support the most vulnerable. He will have heard the Chancellor’s statement only last month about the steps we are taking in response to the energy price increases. He will also be aware of the £400 billion support provided by the Chancellor in the past two years.

The SIs before us are important to ensure that we continue to uprate the thresholds.

[Mr Sheerman]

I do not want to extend the debate to excession because I know that we are in a hurry on account of Divisions in the House, but a Government Minister—a colleague of the Minister—has just resigned from the Government because of the amount of fraud that has been allowed to happen in our country under the present Chancellor’s guidance. Indeed, it was his legislation. Will the Minister confirm that £3.4 billion was lost? What could we have done with that £3.4 billion to ameliorate the impact of the NIC increase?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Thursday 4th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[The Solicitor General]

I assure my hon. Friend that I am looking at this with the Ministry of Justice, but the increase in the number of offences is more than just tinkering. For example, since its inception, the ULS scheme has been extended to some sexual offences, child cruelty, modern slavery and, in 2017-18, a number of terror-related offences. This is something we are looking at.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Can we have clarity on how the scheme works? I have written to Ministers complaining about too lenient sentences and about too severe sentences, and I never hear back. Can we have an explanatory memorandum on how the scheme works and what the follow-up should be?

[The Solicitor General]

I am happy to do so. A few hon. Members have referred cases to me, and I always write back, so I apologise if that has not happened. If any cases to do with my responsibilities come to him, I would like to know about that. We can discuss how the system works in more detail outside the Chamber but, in brief, a large number of people write to us about cases, which have to satisfy a number of thresholds. The cases have to be referred within 28 days, the sentences have to fall within the scheme and they have to be unduly lenient, not just lenient. There has to be a prospect of the Court of Appeal considering this to be outwith the range. I am happy to discuss these issues with him in more detail.

Draft Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations and Non-Contractual Obligations (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Wednesday 13th March 2019 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Lucy Frazer)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Law Applicable to Contractual Obligations and Non-Contractual Obligations (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Austin.

The draft statutory instrument forms part of the Government’s ongoing work to ensure functioning domestic laws on civil judicial co-operation in the event that the UK leaves the European Union without a deal. The instrument relates to EU rules that determine which country’s laws apply when citizens have cross-border obligations, such as when they are buying or selling goods.

The rules apply to contractual and non-contractual matters. An example of a cross-border contractual matter is a contract for the sale of goods by a company in France to a company in England. An example of a non-contractual matter is a duty of care owed by an accountant practising in Germany to a client company based in Scotland not to give negligent advice that causes financial loss. The rules—the Rome conventions—are to do with what country’s laws apply in any particular case.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

I ask the Minister this because I hope to learn, but is she saying that the rules are “who sues who for what”? If there is a contractual obligation and something goes wrong, who sues who and under whose law—is that what they are about?

[Lucy Frazer]

I am always happy to help Members learn about such very technical legal matters. The rules cover which country’s laws apply to a case, so not who sues who, but if people sue each other, whether they will be sued under English law, French law and so on. Countries all have different laws that apply in different circumstances. The question is which law applies.

[Mr Sheerman]

Pushing the Minister a little further, what will be different from now? We are in the European Union, so under whose law do we sue now? Is it European law? Will that be replaced by two different domestic ones?

[Lucy Frazer]

May I develop my submission? I am explaining what we are dealing with—the question of whose laws apply—and am coming to what happens at the moment. I will then let the Committee know how the system will apply in future—in essence, it will be very similar.

The rules that determine the question of whose laws apply are an important part of the EU’s civil judicial co-operative framework. They ensure legal certainty, which underpins trade and commerce between member states and the rest of the world.

As I said, I will set out the existing laws, what they do and what will happen in future. The EU applicable laws are set out in two main instruments, Rome I and Rome II. Rome I regulates contractual obligations and applies to contracts formed on or after 17 December 2009. It is the current law in all EU member states other than Denmark, which has opted out of the regulation. Rome I was preceded by the 1980 Rome convention on the law applicable to contractual obligations. That is a treaty to which the UK and a number of now EU member states are still contracting parties. It will continue to apply to any contracts entered into between April 1991 and 16 December 2009 that might still be in force today. It still applies to all contracts entered into by Denmark.

The Rome II regulation applies to non-contractual obligations. It commenced on 11 January 2009 and, like Rome I, it is the law in all EU member states other than Denmark. I will refer to all those together as the Rome rules.

In each case, the Rome rules start from the premise that the parties, subject to certain limitations, are entitled to choose the law that will apply to their contractual and non-contractual obligations. They operate so that, provided the requirements of the rules are complied with, that choice of law is valid, will be respected by the courts of a participating EU member state and will be applied to determine any dispute.

[Mr Sheerman]

The Minister is being very generous. I have a big exporting constituency, especially of textiles and fashion. Businesses in my constituency do a lot of work across Europe. When a contract is made in future between, say, an Italian firm and a British firm, will that contract say: “If anything goes wrong, we agree to abide by Italian law,” or, “by British law”? Will that be decided at the contractual stage?

[Lucy Frazer]

Yes. Parties enter into written contracts, which can be standard contracts or, if the companies are quite knowledgeable, they often have terms and conditions. As part of that agreement, the companies will often decide which law will apply in the event of a dispute. The Rome conventions determine that courts across the EU will respect that determination. Even if, for example, the case is heard in France, they might respect the contract law chosen by the parties.

Sometimes parties do not choose a law. In those instances, the Rome rules lay down a set of default rules to enable parties and courts to determine which country’s laws will apply—so there are both general and specific default rules. For contractual matters, the general default rule in Rome I is that the applicable law should be the law of the country with which the contract is most closely connected. For non-contractual matters under Rome II, it is the law of the country in which the damage occurred. Special rules apply to particular types of contractual and non-contractual matters.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Sheerman]

As Mr Austin knows, I am not very bright. I am trying to find out for my exporting firms in Huddersfield what the real difference will be. What will they notice in terms of their ability to trade and to have legal agreements? What is the difference between now and what is coming?

[Lucy Frazer]

I will come on to that. I am just trying to set out the existing framework. At the moment, the Rome regulations apply to contracts where parties have or have not determined. I will come on to what we will do when—if—we leave on 29 March. I dispute that the hon. Gentleman is not very intelligent, because he is showing a significant amount of intelligence—and interest, which is most important.

[Mr Sheerman]

I was saying only what the Chair thinks.

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[Mr Sheerman]

I was waiting—

[Lucy Frazer]

With bated breath. The answer is that we are retaining the regulations as a matter of UK law, so very little will change for the hon. Gentleman’s constituents as a result.

There are some specific rules that relate to insurance contracts, consumer contracts and employment contracts. Rome rules do not, for the most part, rely on reciprocity. Any Members who have sat on previous Committees regarding justice matters will have seen that we have taken the approach that where we rely on reciprocity, we are revoking those instruments, but the Rome rules do not rely on reciprocity. Participating EU member state courts must apply the applicable laws determined by the rules, irrespective of whether that law is the law of an EU member state or of a non-EU country.

The statutory instrument implements the Government’s no-deal policy on the Rome rules, which is to retain them as domestic law post exit. That will ensure that UK citizens, businesses and consumers continue to have clear and workable rules regarding which laws apply to cross-border situations in which they may find themselves. When the UK leaves the EU, Rome I and Rome II will be retained as domestic law under the provisions of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. However, amendments are required to ensure that they, and the relevant domestic legislation that originally implemented them, will work effectively once the UK ceases to be a member state.

The amendments will not, for the most part, lead to any differences between how the Rome rules are applied by courts in the UK and courts in EU member states post exit. However, due to the way the EU rules are constructed, the EU may treat UK cases slightly differently in some instances; that is, where Rome I and Rome II refer specifically to member states or the European Community. We have had to amend those references in the retained version of the rules so that they continue to include the UK, which will not be the case for the rules as applied by national courts in the EU after exit day.

[Mr Sheerman]

I know that the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole is impatient to get away, but these are important issues. I come to these Committees to exercise parliamentary scrutiny over these SIs. Perhaps no one in Brigg and Goole is an exporter, and the people there are not worried about the very complex area that we are discussing, but I am trying to press the Minister and give this SI proper scrutiny so that I can go back to my constituency and say, “The Minister said to me that this is a nice little change through the SI. It will not change your life at all, and you can be happy that there will be no barriers to exporting to Italy or any other part of the European Union.”

[Lucy Frazer]

To clarify, we are retaining the rules. The only question we are asking today is what law will be applied to various contracts, and the answer is that there will be very limited change in that area. Other matters might affect the hon. Gentleman’s constituents who export goods, but the specific matter that we are discussing is what law will be applied if they have a dispute about the purchase or sale of their goods. In that case, our laws will be similar going forward.

As I have mentioned, our position in relation to the Rome convention, which predates Rome I and Rome II, is different. The UK’s status as a contracting party to that convention will terminate as a matter of international law once the UK has left the EU, and it will no longer be binding on the UK. The approach taken in this statutory instrument is that the substantive rules of the convention, which continue to apply only to contracts entered into between 1 April 1991 and 16 December 2009, are retained. However, the statutory instrument also removes the provisions dealing with the ability of the UK courts under the 1980 Rome convention to refer questions of interpretation to the Court of Justice of the European Union.

We have done an impact assessment, which I am sorry to say is not yet published. That assessment has concluded that the impact on businesses, charities, voluntary bodies and the public sector will be negligible. The amendments to retained EU law and domestic legislation in this instrument merely correct EU-related deficiencies, so that Rome I, Rome II, and—for the purposes of certain old contracts—the Rome convention rules will continue to apply in the UK as domestic law post exit, largely as they do now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lucy Frazer]

We think it will be published today. If the hon. Lady or any other Members have any questions after that impact assessment is published, we will be happy to answer them.

Turning to consultation in respect of this measure, the Government’s policy approach has a large measure of support from both the Law Society and the Bar Council, as well as Committees in this place and in the other place.

[Mr Sheerman]

What the Minister just said is reassuring, but has she consulted the people who really are responsible for international trade, such as the Confederation of British Industry or the Engineering Employers’ Federation? The raison d’être of those organisations is to have good, frictionless trade across Europe.

[Lucy Frazer]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very important point. We at the Ministry of Justice recognise that we deal with laws, which are there to serve consumers, private individuals, members of the public and businesses. We have set up a Brexit Law Committee, which includes members of the Law Society, the Bar Council and the judiciary. There are also representatives of the City and a number of other members who represent businesses. They are part of the committee, and we have consulted them and discussed all the statutory instruments that we are putting forward to the House. My officials engage heavily with members of the committee. I have met them and discussed a number of matters, and the Lord Chancellor has met them as well.

These are matters to which we have not determined our approach single-handedly; we have discussed them broadly. We have also discussed them with the devolved Administrations. We published our approach to this SI very early on in the process—in March 2018—and we had very positive feedback. We might have tweaked a few things following the feedback we received, but the SI and our approach to it have been around for some time and have received favourable comments.

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[Lucy Frazer]

I beg to differ. The SI was published a year ago. We have engaged actively with the sector and we have had comments back. The instrument has been in the Library, so hon. Members could have seen it. We deposited a draft in the Library on 8 March 2018. If hon. Members had any concerns, we have had a year in which to hear them. A small number of comments were received in response to the SI’s publication, focusing on those areas where the retained version of the rules in the UK will diverge from the rules applied in EU member states. The comments we received, and the follow-up conversations that were held with relevant stakeholders, have been taken into account in the drafting of this instrument.

Our basic approach to retaining the Rome rules was also discussed with members of the legal profession in the context of the overall approach to a no-deal exit from the EU, as outlined in the civil judicial co-operation technical notice that we published on 13 September 2018. No concerns about the Government’s approach were raised at that stage.

[Mr Sheerman]

The Minister, as ever, is charming and helpful, but I get suspicious when a Minister says, “Well, this has been around for a long time.” It might have been gathering dust in the Library or somewhere in her Department. The people who will be affected by these changes should have been consulted proactively, which is why I asked whether we could have a list of people whom she has talked to—the chambers of commerce, the Institute of Directors and particularly small business organisations. How much has the Minister talked to them? We are discovering from Minister after Minister—on SI after SI—that crucial people such as chief executives of airlines, or the chairmen and chief executives of shipping companies, were not consulted. It is about proactive, proper consultation with the people who will be affected. I am always suspicious when the Minister says, “We have had an awful lot of lawyers around the table.” I am not ashamed to say that I have a daughter who is a lawyer; we all have skeletons in our cupboards. The fact of the matter is that I do not trust things that have been consulted on but only on a lawyer-to-lawyer basis.

[Lucy Frazer]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for taking this process seriously, and I welcome the scrutiny. First, as I mentioned, this statutory instrument offers very little change. He may have sat in a number of Committees where significant changes are made and it is appropriate to take on board criticism and feedback. We must do that for this statutory instrument, but it will not have the consequences that he fears. As I highlighted, the impact of this SI is extremely limited.

Secondly, I dispute the position that lawyers are not of any worth to the consultation. I say that not because I am a lawyer or because the hon. Member for Bolton South East is a lawyer. I have spoken to lawyers who practise in Brussels, and I have held roundtables with lawyers in this country and those representing the industry. The interest of the lawyers is to serve their clients, and I reassure the hon. Gentleman that, in those discussions, they feed back to us what their clients want. I assure him that on the Brexit Law Committee we have various representatives from law firms, the Law Society and the City.

I hope I have answered the hon. Gentleman’s question. I will bring the matter to a close, although I am happy to take any further interventions from anyone else if they would like to participate in the debate.

[Mr Sheerman]

Will the Minister give way?

[Lucy Frazer]

I will take one last intervention from the hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Sheerman]

The Minister is very kind. Could we have a list, not of lawyers representing real people but of the hard-working, wealth-creating large, small and medium companies in this country that she has consulted on the impact? It is not good enough for her to say, “It might not be important.” This legislation looks pretty damned important to me.

[Lucy Frazer]

If I have suggested at any stage in the debate that the statutory instrument is not important, I retract that suggestion, but I do not believe I have said that. This is an extremely important matter. As someone who has practised law, I think it is incredibly important to determine and have clarity about which laws govern our contracts, as well which courts determine them. I would like certainty for business; after all, it is business that lawyers serve. At the Ministry of Justice we serve consumers and professionals. I am happy to take the hon. Gentleman’s request away with me.

If no other Member would like to raise any further points, I commend this statutory instrument to the Committee.

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[Lucy Frazer]

I will make just two short points. First, I thank Opposition Members for their constructive approach. If we do leave the EU without a deal, it is helpful to ensure that our statutes work, and I am grateful for their efforts to ensure that. Secondly, by way of clarification, I reiterate what I think I said during the thrust and course of my submission—

[Mr Sheerman]

Will the Minister give way?

[Lucy Frazer]

I will finish my point, if I may. It is important to ensure that we have statutes that work and that businesses have certainty. The draft regulations are part of that package. They are an important SI and I am pleased to commend them to the Committee.

Question put.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Lucy Frazer

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Frazer]

The review of legal aid will be important. We will be inviting a number of independent experts to give evidence so that we can make the necessary decisions.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Secretary of State will know that even in the best justice systems there are miscarriages of justice. Will he therefore pay attention to the fact that so many people who are later found to be innocent and have their sentences quashed, having spent years in prison, never get any compensation?