Draft Inter-American Investment Corporation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2022

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Fabian Hamilton

Tuesday 8th November 2022 General Committees

[Fabian Hamilton]

Thank you for that guidance, Mr Gray. I suppose the reason I believe they do bear relevance, and obviously I will be guided by you in the Chair, is that IDB Invest will have a substantial impact on the economic development and the resolution of the crises of many of the affected countries, which will be able to borrow from the bank and are able to receive from it. I can cut the rest of my speech out, if you wish, Mr Gray, and just ask the questions.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

While my hon. Friend is thinking about that, and I am sorry that I was slightly late because I was talking to some constituents outside, could we know where the sources of the money for the investment comes from? I have done a lot of work with the World Bank and the World Health Organisation, and what always worries me is that they do not actually have any money. They have to get money from elsewhere.

[Fabian Hamilton]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. As the Minister has said, it is a multilateral organisation, and we are part of it. The SI is really designed to approve IDB Invest and of course the immunities and privileges granted to the British citizens who work for it. Without further analysis or research, I cannot answer my hon. Friend’s question directly, but I know that many countries are involved in raising the finance necessary. And that finance is necessary.

I was going to mention, and I will just gloss over it if the Chair will permit me, the effect on the Bahamas of Hurricane Dorian, which struck at the end of August and during the first half of September in 2019. I spoke to people from there just last Thursday, and those effects have been devastating. The bank and its investment branch will have the ability to invest in the economy of the Bahamas to bring it back into credit, because at the moment its debt burden is 105% of its GDP, which of course is unsustainable. I hope that what we are doing today will ensure that development and inward investment can be given to the Bahamas by that essential organisation.

The explanatory memorandum to the SI states:

“The IIC currently provides around $6 bn of annual finance to businesses within Latin America, with a focus on small-and-medium-sized enterprises. Once the UK becomes a member of IIC we will be able to work with other shareholders and the Bank to influence the allocation of this finance to align with UK priorities, with a policy goal of facilitating development finance and bolstering sustainable growth.”

With the issues that I have described in mind, could the Minister tell us what are the specific priorities of the Government in Latin America and the Caribbean and whether there are any plans to update or review the Debt Relief (Developing Countries) Act 2010?

Finally, I should like to raise the growing influence of China in the region, but if you feel that is not necessary, Mr Gray, obviously I will not.

Voting Age

Debate between Barry Sheerman and Fabian Hamilton

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Fabian Hamilton]

I agree with my hon. Friend. It is all the more important, now that we have an ageing population—as the hon. Member for Bristol West said, a much higher proportion of older people cast their votes—that we extend the franchise to 16-year-olds as well. As I said earlier, I believe them to be more than capable of making a judgment about who they want to represent them at the local authority level and at the parliamentary and governmental level.

[Mr Sheerman]

My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe)—and he is real friend, not just in the formal sense—put forward a ruthless logic, but that logic leads to the question “Why not 14; why not 12?” Adopting his logic, where should we set the age for voting?

[Fabian Hamilton]

I would answer my hon. Friend—and he is a very good friend—by saying that we have to make a judgment, and that young people have to demonstrate whether or not they are able to make the sorts of judgments we expect in their choice of who they want to represent them. In my experience—and, I am sure, in my hon. Friend’s experience—a 14-year-old does not quite have the maturity or ability to make that judgment, whereas most 16-year-olds certainly do. The point was well made by the hon. Member for Bristol West—we will not have loads of 16-year-olds suddenly heading off towards the polling station when they become 16. In fact, the young people are more likely to be 17 or 18 when the election comes about—unless it is in local government, as many of our towns and cities have annual elections three out of four years.

The age may well come down to 14 as young people get more mature, but we are debating votes at 16. In that case, I think, as many hon. Members and most of my party colleagues think, that from 16 onwards young people are mature enough, bright enough and educated enough to make those judgments. [Interruption.] That is my view; I know my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) has a different view.

Let me move on to the issue of school councils. I do not know whether many Members have attended elections for school councils or spoken to any school councils, but I have been invited, as I know have many Members, to meet them—including often to primary school councils, too. [Interruption.] I am staggered—[Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Shipley wants to keep on making comments from a sedentary position, I will allow him to make an intervention. Otherwise,I would be grateful if he stopped.

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[Fabian Hamilton]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. That is precisely the point I am trying to make. I was coming on to talk about school councils, because I have been impressed by the enthusiasm for voting, and by the interest, knowledge and understanding of what happens in a primary or a secondary school and of what a school council can achieve. It is on a very small scale, but it is a very good start. As the hon. Member for Bristol West said, if people get into the habit of voting at that young age, perhaps we will see a much higher turnout at elections.

I want to take Members back to what was a low point in this country’s electoral history: the police and crime commissioner elections. I am not going to rehearse the reasons why those elections had such a poor turnout—in west Yorkshire, it was 13.7%—but I venture to suggest that if 16-year-olds had had the right to vote on 15 November, turnout might have been over 15%. That is still an absolutely appalling figure, but it would have made some difference. There was a thirst for and an interest in voting among young people—even in those elections, which were so badly publicised. Indeed, when I visited Roundhay high school last Friday, I was asked about the turnout of those elections and the reasons why they had taken place in November in the first place.

When I was at school—a long, long time ago, in the ’60s and ’70s—we studied a subject called civics. I know that that has since evolved, but I found civics very useful, and its modern counterpart, of course, is far more useful. The point about that subject was to understand the institutions of government, both locally and nationally. How many Members have had e-mails and letters from constituents—many such constituents are pretty mature, certainly well over 16 or 18—saying, “Dear Member of Parliament, I want you to do something about the state of the streets in my area”, or saying that they want them to sort out their council house, their property, or the windows? They believe us to be councillors, too. I even got an e-mail the other day from somebody that began, “Dear Councillor Hamilton”. She wanted me to sort out what was purely a local authority issue, and I had to point out that I have not been a councillor for 15 years.

My point is that if 16-year-olds were able to vote, the education they were receiving at school about our governmental institutions, about how our constitution actually works, would be far more pertinent and relevant, because the next year or the next month—whenever they pass the age of 16—while they were still studying, they could cast their vote in a local authority election that has a direct relevance to them, and now, of course, in the five-yearly police and crime commissioner elections, too.

We have an age of consent of 16. At 16, people can drive a scooter. At 16, people can fight for their country—[Interruption.] Sorry; people can join the Army at 16. At 17, they can drive a car. At 16, they can get married with parental permission.

[Mr Sheerman]

With parental permission.

[Fabian Hamilton]

Yes, with parental permission.

We had a youth Parliament in the city of Leeds, as many cities do. The awards were given in the banqueting suite of our Leeds civic hall, and they were handed out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn). The turnout was brilliant. The enthusiasm and support from parents and young people were absolutely magnificent. That told me that increasingly our young people are able to make a judgment about who they want in this House; who they want to run their Government, because that affects them; and who they want to run their local authority. I therefore urge this House to vote for votes for 16-year-olds.

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[Mr Sheerman]

No, I will not give way. The hon. Gentleman, who is a great friend of mine, made quite a long speech. I want to carry on making my case.

I believe that pushing childhood back makes many young children vulnerable at a crucial age. Those of us who have spent time with children—I have four children and oodles of grandchildren—know that they are very vulnerable between the ages of 14 and 18. We can wish that away or pretend it is not the case, but my experience as Chairman of the Education Committee and then of the Children, Schools and Families Committee has taught me that that is a very sensitive age for young people.

I understand where the motion is coming from. It is a fashionable cause at present. When the president of the Liberal party back in those days, the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), made that speech and moved that motion, I remember that people said, “Oh, it’s only those trendy Liberal Democrats looking for young votes,” and I said, “No, no, he is a man of honour and he believes this for very good reasons.” My own party has been won over. The deputy leader of my party and others have become passionate about it. I opposed lowering the voting age being in our manifesto and believed it was wrong—again, because I believed it made the protection of children a lesser issue than it might otherwise be.

[Fabian Hamilton]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mr Sheerman]

May I put that point in context? I believe that part of the demand and the fashion of votes at 16 comes from the fact that our parliamentary democracy is in deep trouble. We know that only 65% voted at the last election and that 6 million people did not bother to register. We all know that the three main parties represented in this place have hardly any members in their constituencies—tiny numbers of people active in politics. I know that the Liberal Democrats have believed in proportional representation to do something about that, but we are all floundering around because there is something deeply wrong with the engagement in democracy in our country today.

The demand for votes at 16 is clutching at straws. I understand it and I do not deny that there are arguments for it, but I worry that it is a pretext for not looking at the deeply worrying decay of parliamentary democracy in our country. I hope this does not come to a vote. Everyone on the Labour Benches knows that I am a reasonable man. At the very least, I would like the Government to set up a commission on an all-party basis to look into the matter. If my concerns and worries about the protection of children are ill-founded, an independent commission looking at that might give me cause not to worry any longer, but I believe that the voice that has been silent in the House today has been one arguing for childhood, the protection of childhood and the value of childhood.