Energy Network Charges

Debate between Barry Gardiner and Anne Main

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Diolch yn fawr, Mrs Main. Yn yr wythnos lle mae Cymru wedi gwneud Prydain mor falch, ni ddylir y ddadl atal dathlu athrylith y bobol Gymraeg, yn enwedig os fyddent yn mynd ymlaen i guro’r Ffrancwyr neu’r Almaenwyr yn y ffeinal.

[Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair)]

Order. For the benefit of everyone else here—

--- Later in debate ---

[Drew Hendry]

I will not use the word “you”. He talks about this being a small amount, but when you are faced with the costs of paying for off-grid fuel—oil and gas—the additional costs because you live in a sparse area and low wages in a low-wage economy, this is a devastating cocktail. Do you not agree that it is not as unimportant as you are making out?

[Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair)]

Order. I am not making out anything, but I shall call Barry Gardiner, who may answer on his own behalf.

[Barry Gardiner]

I agree that many factors come together to push people into fuel poverty and into poverty. They have been ably outlined by the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues. The point I am making is that here we have something that affects not just one part of the United Kingdom but many parts of England and Wales, as the Ofgem report clearly shows.

[Barry Gardiner]

I felt that the debate had been unbalanced in how the facts were presented, which implied that this was an injustice being done by the Westminster Government to poor Scotland.

[Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair)]

Order. May I point out that I shall be calling the Minister at 4 o’clock? Mr Gardiner, I accept that you may wish to take interventions, but I say that just in case the new timings have eluded people.

[Barry Gardiner]

Mrs Main, I am mindful of your ruling. I simply wanted to say I accept that there is an issue of justice and fairness, but wider effects are being felt all around the UK. If we keep this issue in that context rather than trying to make it about “us” and “them” and simple victimisation, we will have a much better opportunity to resolve the problems that do exist.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Debate between Barry Gardiner and Anne Main

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con)]

I have listened with interest to this debate, because I am deeply unhappy about the yoking together of the two elements of this Bill. My hon. Friend the Member for South West Devon (Mr Streeter) said that not a single person had contacted him about AV as something that concerned them. I am in exactly the same position, and I suspect that the postbags of many other right hon. and hon. Members have not exactly been stuffed with correspondence saying that this needs to be an immediate reform in a new Parliament. I have many concerns in my constituency about hospitals, funding, and exactly what is happening to jobs, but AV has not been a pressing concern.

I have come into this Chamber feeling deeply sceptical. I support the idea that we should have more equality among constituencies, and there is a pressing case for addressing that particular element, but AV has been slipped into the Bill as a result of horse-trading—I can put it no other way—to make the coalition work. Some of us fought deep and bitter battles to get re-elected, against the very people who said, “Don’t re-elect that nasty Tory,” and here I am. I was elected as Member of Parliament for the good people of St Albans, and I serve all of them, not only the Conservatives. Like all hon. Members, once I put on the hat that means that I am privileged to be representing the constituency, I represent every single one of my constituents without fear or favour, including political favour.

I find it somewhat puzzling that, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) said, we should be going for the election of the bland. Why do we have to have the rubber chicken version of a Member of Parliament—something that offends nobody and pleases nobody in equal measure? AV was not in our election manifesto. I do not mind a Whip sitting close to me, as one did about an hour ago, and encouraging me to support my manifesto, but I do mind being pressed on something that I am struggling with as a very loyal and non-rebellious member of my party and this Government. I came here thinking, “I’m not quite sure whether I’m going to abstain”—I despair of abstaining because I was not put here by the people of St Albans to do that—“or whether I should vote against this because I don’t feel I should be wholeheartedly supporting it.” However, I have listened to wiser heads than mine who said, “This is not the time—wait until Third Reading.”

I hope that those people out there who are listening to how we are behaving and making our comments will note that for many of us it sticks in our throats to have to support that particular part of the Bill. We will listen to exactly what happens in Committee. As we have heard, there are several things missing from the Bill, so there will be deep unhappiness in all parts of the House about addressing something that we do not have as a pressing concern.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that it might make better sense for her to oppose the Bill on Second Reading, see what the Government do, and if they do what she wants, then vote for it on Third Reading? The Whips’ mantra throughout the ages is, “Oh, wait until Third Reading”—but they’ve got you by then.

[Mrs Main]

As someone who looks like he might have been got in a way that perhaps I could not be got, I accept what the hon. Gentleman says. That is one thing about being a woman—we do not have bits to grab that other people have.

Rebellion is a serious thing. If someone rebels against every single thing, then no one takes them seriously when they mean it. I am not a serial rebel, but I have had it up to here with this, as I am sure that many of my hon. Friends have. I try to support my Government, but I hope that they respect the fact that some of us are not just Lobby fodder but are trying to do our best by a coalition Government for this country—that we will swallow some of this, but only so much. There should be greater recognition of the fact that some of us believe that AV is probably the least sensible and least palatable solution—a solution that not even my Liberal Democrat opponents in St Albans were encouraging people to think of on the doorstep. I am surprised that the Liberal Democrats who are in coalition with us are supportive of this measure. It delivers the worst of all options, and I am deeply unhappy about it.

I am pleased, however, that we are tackling the issue of boundaries, which have been a problem for many voters who feel that the sizes of constituencies are definitely unequal and do not respect boundaries as they should. I have huge sympathy with my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner), who had a great point to make.

However, I will not make my rebellion on this issue tonight. I respect the comments made by the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) about the Whips, but listening to my colleagues in the Chamber has led me to this decision. If we are to have a Government who deliver on the difficult things, let us not make this into a huge argument over something that none of us wants. I do not believe that, if asked for their ideal solution, a single Member in this Chamber would have gone for AV. AV is the least palatable option and will leave us with the least palatable Members of Parliament.

I shall sit down soon, as I know colleagues wish to speak. As I said, many wise heads in the Chamber will be rueing the day we got ourselves in the nonsensical situation of having to support AV—given that if we were asked, in a general question, whether we liked AV, we would all have said no. I do not know how we ended up with this cobbled-together thing. I accept that it is part of the troika—the coalition of three horses pulling in different directions and the attempt to get them all to go the same way. However, I regret that our Government and my Conservative party should be having to consider something that under normal circumstances we would have consigned to the dustbin.