Education Bill

Baroness Warnock Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2011 Grand Committee

The noble Lord, Lord Laming, was most eloquent on this matter, because he has been involved in many cases. I, too, have read most of the large cases; at present, I have to read serious case reviews as the chair of the children and families court service. I see time and again that the key issues are the exchange of information, co-operation, and people understanding about partnership. For these reasons, it would be disastrous if we were to remove the clause on co-operation. It is such a small thing for the Government to do in relation to what the benefit will be for children.

[Baroness Warnock]

My Lords, I strongly support the amendment. I have in mind, unsurprisingly, children with special needs who, as we know, are very much more likely to be excluded permanently from school than any other group of children. Ever since the 1970s, people have tried to encourage co-operation between education and social services in particular, but the medical profession as well. As the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, said, it sends out a bad message to remove the duty. I do not usually like to think of laws being made to send out messages, but this carries the message that it is unnecessary to have a plan B which is understood by all the people who are deeply involved with the child. The amendments are therefore necessary for the well-being of the child. I met the other day the headmistress of a school—she was obviously the very good headmistress of an academy—who said that she never intended to use the local authority supplies because she did not trust them and it was bureaucratic. I was absolutely appalled by this because it simply deprives the local authority of the ability to keep an overview of all the needs of the child, which is of the greatest importance. I therefore hope that the Government will be able to think again.

--- Later in debate ---

Amendment 54 relates to the absence of checks and balances. It would require schools to retain financial responsibility for children whom they exclude permanently, as well as responsibility for their future educational outcomes. I know the Government are piloting this approach; it was referred to in the White Paper. However, I should like to know from the Minister whether the Government need legislative power to bring in this provision, assuming the pilots make it look feasible. If they do, would it not be a good idea to include it in the legislation that is before us at the moment, at least on an enabling basis? Such a responsibility to the educational future of a child, both financially and for the outcomes that they achieve, would provide another useful psychological check in the minds of the members of the governing body when they consider permanent exclusion, rather than the school simply being able to pay a fine and get rid of children who are difficult to deal with. In speaking to my amendments, I also support the other amendments tabled by noble Lords in this group.

[Baroness Warnock]

Is it in order for me to ask a question? I agree with much of what the noble Baroness says, but does she not recognise that sometimes sending a pupil back to the same school might not be appropriate and might be very difficult both for the school and for the child? The school’s duty is to find proper resources at another school, or indeed at another unit in the same school, so that the education can continue. This is relevant to Amendment 54, because the school could keep the child on the roll and make sure that they had a proper education. Does she agree?

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

I agree in principle. The wording in the amendment,

“to retain an excluded pupil on the roll”,

means that the child is still recognised as having a connection with the school and that their education elsewhere needs to be funded and their outcomes included. That is one of the problems with the approach that we are discussing, because it does not allow for that subtlety. A panel might decide that the decision to exclude was wrong and that in principle the child should be reinstated, but there then needs to be a discussion with the child, the parents and the teachers as to the best course of action. For the child to go to another school with their head held high because a positive decision had been taken would be very different from their going to another school because they had been permanently excluded. It would wipe the slate clean, and they might well be better off having another opportunity elsewhere. I wish I had been clever enough to table an amendment that could allow that degree of subtlety, but I agree with the noble Baroness that that is ideally what should happen.